The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > General Truck Forums > Suspension

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2009, 12:28 PM   #26
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Thanks for all the responses. You've made it clear that the crossmember needs to go between the frame rails so I will follow the advice. N2TRUX had a good point too. Putting it between the rails will open up more options for ride height, etc. later. I am currently not with the truck and am in Germany, so when I get back I can get more hands on. I am trying to get more of the theory straightened out now and will really delve into the project around Christmas time. These trucks are addicting. I'm on another continent and still thinking about it. Thanks for your help.
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 12:44 PM   #27
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,894
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Be sure to update.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides
@rattlecankustoms in IG

Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive.
It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.....

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 01:01 PM   #28
terrellautosports
New Member
 
terrellautosports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: s.w. missouri
Posts: 176
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

JW76,

to me when you mocked this up you still have the leafs on top of your rearend housing. in turn making the drive shaft and cross member below you frame rail. if you take the leaf springs off you should gain 3 inches for sure possible a little more. that should move your driveshaft up and your new crossmember up in the frame rails.
__________________
1968 SWB Project. Soon to Start Build Thread
terrellautosports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 07:45 PM   #29
N2TRUX
Happy to be here
 
N2TRUX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 39,023
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Lots of good conversation on the topic. It's a lot easier to make changes now than it is "after" you started cutting and welding....
__________________
Follow me on Facebook and Instagram @N2trux.com

Articles-

"Jake" the 84 to 74 crewcab

"Elwood" the77_Remix

85 GMC Sierra "Scarlett"

"Refining Sierra"
N2TRUX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 07:24 AM   #30
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Thanks for all of your input. I really appreciate the advice and I agree its a heck of a lot easier to think and rethink and make changes now then after you cut.
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2009, 09:05 PM   #31
Wild83C10
Registered User
 
Wild83C10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 910
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Looks like we will be doing this at about the same time. If I attack mine first I will let you know what I had trouble with or what worked better for me. Hope to hear the same from you. Good Luck!
__________________
83 C10 Stepside (SOLD, it was a blast!)

383 MASS-FLO EFI/TKO II 600/3.90 Posi 10 bolt
S475 and C4 DM running, fine tuning
turbo=
Douchebag Racing: Runs Fine all the Time
Wild83C10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 11:38 AM   #32
falze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Streator, Il
Posts: 73
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Does anyone know the length of the trailing arms of a short bed? I'm starting a buiild this winter with an orginal 2wd blazer frame with a manual trans. Sorry didn't mean jack your thread.
falze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2009, 12:15 PM   #33
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,894
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by falze View Post
Does anyone know the length of the trailing arms of a short bed? I'm starting a buiild this winter with an orginal 2wd blazer frame with a manual trans. Sorry didn't mean jack your thread.
From what I remember, they should be 51" from C/L of the front bushing bolt to the C/L of the rear u-bolt/axle tube.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides
@rattlecankustoms in IG

Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive.
It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.....

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 07:21 AM   #34
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

So, here is some food for thought I guess. Talking do you guys I realized I didn't know quite as mush as I thought so I started doing some homework. I did a search for some suspension design info and read through a lot of it. I looked at the HRH kits again, too and what other people have done with trailing arms on their trucks within this forum. I learned a lot but am confused too.

HRH sets their vehicles up almost identical to NASCAR. They install the trailing arms almost level with only a slight maybe 6 inches of pitch to the crossmember. They use screw jacks and coils for easy adjustment. For the panhard, they attach to either the drivers side axle tube above where the trailing arm connects or they catch the trailing arm then they anchor it on the right side frame rail with an adjustable mount with maybe 4-5 inches of vertical adjustment. They then set the panhard bar so that it is level at ride height. The panhard seems to run horizontal right along the axle tubes. This setup seems to work perfect form them allowing them to adjust to run drag, drift, or road courses.

Reading some other articles I read that the panhard should run at an angle with the center of the panhard crossing the differential, or that the panhard can be over the axle running parallel to it.

Also, I've read that having the trailing arms flatter will increase traction without pulling the front end off the ground and that the more angle you get, the more it wants to squat the rear end and lift the front.

Also, when I mentioned putting the crossmember under the frame, it makes my geometry identical to that of the HRH truck. I intend to keep my 15 inch wheels and can only afford to drop the truck in the back about 3 inches or so so with that drop it gives me identical geometry to the HRH truck which the owner of HRH swears by.

All together, this is a bit confusing.

Here are a few pictures and diagrams i looked found
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 07:26 AM   #35
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

pictures
Attached Images
   
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 07:28 AM   #36
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

few more
Attached Images
   
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 09:51 AM   #37
andrewmp6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Louisville,Ky
Posts: 5,811
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

That camaro is from hotrodstohell.net they make a truck arm kit for a lot of cars even a s10.Its a good well rounded basic set up really only things to break are a arm or panhard bar.
andrewmp6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 10:29 AM   #38
smashingchuck
It'd be alot cooler if you did
 
smashingchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Three Rivers, MI
Posts: 2,345
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

I'm really failing to see where they have a stock crossmember mounted to the bottom flange of their frame in this picture:


It looks TO ME as though they are building a custom, low profile crossmember that mounts to the bottom of the frame:
__________________
78 Build Thread

4Runner Build
smashingchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 11:06 AM   #39
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

I was not inferring that they mounted a stock crossmember under the frame. They made a custom one, however it works the same way AS IF you were to mount a stock one below the frame. The driveshaft goes through the hoop and in both scenarios the mounting brackets for the trailing arms are at the same height in the same location. Their custom member works out the same as the way as the way I mocked it up.

The geometry of this move has been questioned in previous posts so I was just asking for more explanation as to why this is poor geometry. I am just trying to fully understand because if I move the crossmember up between the rails it is higher than the HRH truck and therefore there is more angle on the trailing arms. It seems like all HRH vehicles strive for a minimal angle in the arms.
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 12:00 PM   #40
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,894
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

The HTH set-up does mount between the frame rails, not under. In that pic, the c.member was being installed. If you look @ the side view shots of the truck on the ground w/wheels & tires installed, you can't see the truck arm forward pivots (below the frame rail).
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides
@rattlecankustoms in IG

Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive.
It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.....

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2009, 12:09 PM   #41
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Are there more pictures of the HRH truck available? Just curious has anybody seen the truck first hand?
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2009, 02:05 PM   #42
tymbom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Siskiyou Co
Posts: 45
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

The truck that HRH built was designed to look stock and not lower at all. If you put the cross member between the flanges of the frame like it is on the stock 67-72 style frames then it won't need to be custom fabricated at all. You could even use the CPP cross member.
tymbom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 10:47 AM   #43
Damien
Registered User
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Farmington, MN
Posts: 928
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

I'm considering doing this swap on the step side I'm building for my dad, so I will be watching this thread. I found an istall artical of CPP's kit. There are some decent pictures of the set up. Here is the link. http://www.classicperform.com/tech_a...iling_Arms.htm
__________________
I can still count my vehicles on two... wait three hands.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 06:24 PM   #44
JW76
Registered User
 
JW76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Seems like a lot of people are interested in doing this swap. I have also been thinking about the crossmember and agree that it has to go inside the frame rails like Scoti and N2Trux said. I want the truck lower than I was planning before. The CPP article has some good tips on setting up the suspension. I am also thinking about trying to run the 63-72 front and rear cool ride setup with the trailing arms. The coolride front is the same for 63-87 so I could just use the older kit. More research to come.
JW76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 02:40 AM   #45
bluex
Registered User
 
bluex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 1,963
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Bump.

I'm intrested in doing this to my '78. I'm thinking the best way for me to do it will be with CPP's kit, without arms ($609) and use some stock 67-72 arms. This kit includes everything of the $1200 kit, without the arms. What I like about it is the upper spring mount is built into the c-notch plate and I wont have to worry about figuring out a mount.

Anyone know if there is a difference in arm length from a shortbed to a longbed. I'm going to call CPP and check that the kit will work with some stock arms and then start checking the local yards for them.

If I cant find any, then I'll go with Nates arms since they are cheaper, and have a drop built in.....

here is another article on the CPP kit.

http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/08...kit/index.html

Here is a cool video of the '79 in the article. Bottom screen, left side. Titled '79 C-10 Truck

http://www.classicperform.com/Videos/Videos.htm

Last edited by bluex; 12-11-2009 at 03:49 AM.
bluex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 09:54 AM   #46
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,894
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluex View Post

Anyone know if there is a difference in arm length from a shortbed to a longbed.
They are the same length.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides
@rattlecankustoms in IG

Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive.
It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.....

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:07 AM   #47
bluex
Registered User
 
bluex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 1,963
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Cool, that will make it easier to find them then.

I'm thinking with used arms I could get it done for under 1k?

I've also seen ECE sells a kit to strengthen the factory arms, would that be a worthwile investment?
bluex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:27 AM   #48
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,894
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluex View Post

I've also seen ECE sells a kit to strengthen the factory arms, would that be a worthwile investment?
Yes. Scrap steel would do the job too if budget is a factor. I simply put ~ 2" beads every 6" or so down the seam of the OE arms & weld up the extreme ends (front & rear).
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides
@rattlecankustoms in IG

Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive.
It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.....

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 06:19 PM   #49
bluex
Registered User
 
bluex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 1,963
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Thanks Scoti, thats a great idea. Any pics?

From CPP about the kit:

Kit is designed for 63-72 arms and will work with a stock set of arms.
The truck in that video uses their modular brake kit with a 2" drop spindle
They also used a 2" drop spring up front for 4" total.
Their rear arms have no drop built into them
and the truck has 3" 63-72 drop coils in the rear, or can use any other drop or stock spring for those years.

Last edited by bluex; 12-11-2009 at 06:20 PM.
bluex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 06:49 PM   #50
SCOTI
Registered User
 
SCOTI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DALLAS,TX
Posts: 21,894
Re: 86 C10 Trailing Arm Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluex View Post
Thanks Scoti, thats a great idea. Any pics?
I can get you some.
__________________
67SWB-B.B.RetroRod
64SWB-Recycle
89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck
99CCSWB Driver
All Fleetsides
@rattlecankustoms in IG

Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive.
It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar.....

Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.
SCOTI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2022 67-72chevytrucks.com