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Old 03-10-2018, 02:08 PM   #51
Stephen Watson
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

It's not actually 7" of lift in the back. It was measured at 3.5" higher when the pics were taken (over the axles, not at the headlights and tail lights) before the shackle brackets were moved. The front is about 2" of lift so even with the rear springs bound up the rear was about 5.5". I'm sure it's much better with the brackets moved back to where we all thought they were to start.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:03 PM   #52
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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Originally Posted by Chulisohombre View Post
Pics definitely help but having a 7!inch lift that’s supposed to be 2 in its place isn’t going to work well. If you giththevwrongbspring length why did you not exchange them instead of doing all that extra work? That would have been the easiest solution. Everything I have bought from rod has been spot on what was advertised. They will Make it correct or get you a fix hopefully. Their customer service has a great record from anything I’ve read. But like I said I’ve bought stuff and didn’t need them to fix anything. It was good to go. Good luck. Pics will definitely help to see what went wrong. When you get the chance.
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The option for exchanging the springs was not considered or offered by ORD They said "We set you up for 56" springs so here's a bag of nuts and bolts and move your hangers back 4". Getting the right length springs sure would have been easier, but they are moved now. I am currently working w/them now on the height issue. Have pics posted on another thread. My first pic post so I didn't get it added to this thread but there are close,have a look. Thank you
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:24 PM   #53
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:01 PM   #54
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Watson View Post
This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.
It was established early on in the string of email to your associtate Chris that I had a K20 (3rd email 6/8/16).I have forwarded this string of emails to you, and I also asked if there was any further information that was required. I will furnish current measurements as soon as I can. Thank you very much
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:51 PM   #55
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Luckily you get a better ride out of the 56” springs in most cases than the stock 54. Sucks you had to do extra work. Always does. The 56” springs will flex a lot better as well so you will need a shock for 4 inch lift more than likely so you don’t bottom out the ones you have now. And x 4 on billstein shocks. They are awesome. Will be my next set. Rachos are ok but not much better than the stock replacement ones that were on mine for 20 years. Lol. If you have the adjustable one I’d use the lowest setting just to see if it helps. As is you are pretty much at the max usable length of those shocks. But looks like Stephen is getting you fixed up now hopefully.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:28 PM   #56
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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It was established early on in the string of email to your associtate Chris that I had a K20 (3rd email 6/8/16).I have forwarded this string of emails to you, and I also asked if there was any further information that was required. I will furnish current measurements as soon as I can. Thank you very much
I think I may have this figured out. I have a K20 and ORD sent me springs for a heavier K30.That would explain the excess height in the back as it won't settle and the stuff ride. What do you think??? Thank you.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:42 PM   #57
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Watson View Post
This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.
I think I may have the answer to this problem. I referred to my truck as a K30 once on my first email and early on and it was it was established that I was wrong and that I had a K20 (6/8/16) but I was still sent springs for a 1 ton K30. I thinking that is where the problem lies. The much heavier springs and would account for the extra height in the back and the stiff ride. Are 1Ton and 3/4 ton Alcan shocks the same?? Me thinks not, Help please!!

Last edited by akart; 03-10-2018 at 06:44 PM. Reason: add info
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:51 PM   #58
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Watson View Post
This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.
I referred to my truck as a K30 once in my first email to buy springs.It was established early on I was wrong,3rd email, 6/8/16 establishes that my frame was/is a K20. No further reference was made during the ordering process to a K30. But I got K30 springs. Could that be why the back is high and the ride is stiff. These springs were ordered for a smoother ride.
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:03 PM   #59
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Alcan has nothing to do with the spring design. And what truck rating they're ordered for actually has very little to do with the spring rating. It's very common to need a heavy spring on a lighter rated truck or just the opposite. They're designed for the projected usage. These were built to haul a few hundred pounds of supplies on rough dirt roads.

Let's get some current measurements and move from there. And minimize assessment of ride quality till the shock length isn't a known problem.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:31 PM   #60
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Watson View Post
Alcan has nothing to do with the spring design. And what truck rating they're ordered for actually has very little to do with the spring rating. It's very common to need a heavy spring on a lighter rated truck or just the opposite. They're designed for the projected usage. These were built to haul a few hundred pounds of supplies on rough dirt roads.

Let's get some current measurements and move from there. And minimize assessment of ride quality till the shock length isn't a known problem.
Stephen you sure tip toed around the K30 thing with amazing dexterity. So, since by your previous post you figured I had a K30, do you send the same springs for a K30 and a K20? I will get you the new numbers as soon as possible. Very interested to see where this is going. Thank you Very much.

Last edited by akart; 03-10-2018 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:57 PM   #61
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

3/4 and one ton springs can both be 56” sorings but the rate would be more on a 1 ton spring and will usually have a couple extra spring leaves to hold more weight. If anything it will be closer to 8 leaves and a lot of half and 3/4 tons will be 5-6 leaves on the rear. Depending on use you could take out a leaf or two and it will settle down some and bring the spring rate down a bit.
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:17 PM   #62
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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3/4 and one ton springs can both be 56” sorings but the rate would be more on a 1 ton spring and will usually have a couple extra spring leaves to hold more weight. If anything it will be closer to 8 leaves and a lot of half and 3/4 tons will be 5-6 leaves on the rear. Depending on use you could take out a leaf or two and it will settle down some and bring the spring rate down a bit.
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That's what I thought too,my springs have 10 leaves. Seems odd to have to take out leaves in custom springs but I will keep that in mind for an option. Thank you
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:37 PM   #63
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

custom built packs like these have more leaves of thinner material to give better flex and ride .

you can NOT compare custom built to oem replacement style .

and 3/4 ton to 1 ton can have the same spring pack or different depending on the way the truck was ordered from the factory .

and just a fyi to you or any other person thinking they have a c/k 30 truck frame . rear shocks on the outside of the frame rail = 1/2 & 3/4 ton . c/k 30 got them on the inside of the frame . had to to clear drw axles on c&c trucks .

this is a processes and glad we are all helping / learning / talking our way to a better end goal .
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:26 PM   #64
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Watson View Post
This is not how I prefer to address this but it's time.

Many people on this public forum (myself included) are really trying to help you but your continual use of measurements from incorrect positions on the truck and before a major problem was identified and corrected make it difficult to work through. We didn’t just send you 56” springs because that’s what we wanted to get rid of. The application info and physical measurements you gave us would require a 56” rear spring. Continually stating that we sent you the wrong springs and would not stand behind them is a lie. Please do not do this anymore, especially in a public forum. You stated numerous times on this forum that you have a K30 frame. K30s come with 56” springs. You told us numerous times you had a K30 frame. Knowing you had a mix of parts we had you measure the springs just to be sure and received a measurement of 54” which supports a flat length of 56”. The fault for receiving springs that did not fit your truck does not lie with Offroad Design. Luckily this was a relatively simple problem to solve given the cost of shipping springs from and to your location.

Now if we can move forward by checking proper current measurements we can see if there is still a problem with ride height. I understand it could be a while before the truck melts out and that’s fine. We’re not going anywhere. Keep it nice until then.
Once again, it doesn't matter if the truck is a K20 or K30 (as someone else said earlier, either could have 56's), we build the spring for the length required and the intended use.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:18 PM   #65
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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Once again, it doesn't matter if the truck is a K20 or K30 (as someone else said earlier, either could have 56's), we build the spring for the length required and the intended use.
Been talking w/Stephen with ORD. He told me that if he were to send me new/different springs that he would send me the same ones. I checked with the Alcan spring people about shocks for a 2" lift and they said they would have a 7" free arch.The springs I got from ORD have a 10" free arch according to Stephen Watson of ORD. The back springs in my opinion and by my measurements is too high. But Stephen says that the "Custom" shocks will be the same for a K20 or a K30. I believe I have a 6" lift in the back which I think is pretty obvious but Stephen of ORD says I am lying so I must be wrong and a liar. Why would I do this? Well I am done here on this topic. My options are to put in castor wedges to correct the low castor and poor steering due to the high rear end and be stuck w/that or to order new springs from Alcan springs who I have found to be most considerate and helpful and who Stephen of ORD says made my "Custom" springs. "But have nothing to do w/them?" Chris of ORD said it would take 3 weeks to make my springs, but they were miraculously shipped in only 1 week. So,Stephen you win and I loose and good luck to you and your ORD. Please draw your own conclusions and to all of you out there thank you for reading and commenting.
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:23 AM   #66
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Measurements?
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:11 AM   #67
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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Been talking w/Stephen with ORD. He told me that if he were to send me new/different springs that he would send me the same ones. I checked with the Alcan spring people about shocks for a 2" lift and they said they would have a 7" free arch.The springs I got from ORD have a 10" free arch according to Stephen Watson of ORD. The back springs in my opinion and by my measurements is too high. But Stephen says that the "Custom" shocks will be the same for a K20 or a K30. I believe I have a 6" lift in the back which I think is pretty obvious but Stephen of ORD says I am lying so I must be wrong and a liar. Why would I do this? Well I am done here on this topic. My options are to put in castor wedges to correct the low castor and poor steering due to the high rear end and be stuck w/that or to order new springs from Alcan springs who I have found to be most considerate and helpful and who Stephen of ORD says made my "Custom" springs. "But have nothing to do w/them?" Chris of ORD said it would take 3 weeks to make my springs, but they were miraculously shipped in only 1 week. So,Stephen you win and I loose and good luck to you and your ORD. Please draw your own conclusions and to all of you out there thank you for reading and commenting.
You're the only person I've ever heard whine and be angry that a lead time on a custom part was significantly reduced. WOW.. I deal with a lot of custom orders in my line of work and I know there are runs of parts that when you're the first in line it can take weeks or months but sometimes you hit the end of a line that was just going into production and you wait weeks or months less. I've ordered custom cabinets that I expected and was told it would be 4 months to be built only to have the supplier call 2 months later and say hey we had canceled orders and moved you up so your cabinets are done. I wasn't angry.

It really seems like you are significantly difficult to deal with and if you were a client of mine I would be relived to have you and your poor attitude out of my life.

Peace

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Old 03-15-2018, 11:18 AM   #68
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

Quote:
Originally Posted by akart View Post
Been talking w/Stephen with ORD. He told me that if he were to send me new/different springs that he would send me the same ones. I checked with the Alcan spring people about shocks for a 2" lift and they said they would have a 7" free arch.The springs I got from ORD have a 10" free arch according to Stephen Watson of ORD. The back springs in my opinion and by my measurements is too high. But Stephen says that the "Custom" shocks will be the same for a K20 or a K30. I believe I have a 6" lift in the back which I think is pretty obvious but Stephen of ORD says I am lying so I must be wrong and a liar. Why would I do this? Well I am done here on this topic. My options are to put in castor wedges to correct the low castor and poor steering due to the high rear end and be stuck w/that or to order new springs from Alcan springs who I have found to be most considerate and helpful and who Stephen of ORD says made my "Custom" springs. "But have nothing to do w/them?" Chris of ORD said it would take 3 weeks to make my springs, but they were miraculously shipped in only 1 week. So,Stephen you win and I loose and good luck to you and your ORD. Please draw your own conclusions and to all of you out there thank you for reading and commenting.
I know you are frustrated with your current situation but it looks like Stephen has asked a few times on the truck measurements. Have you done this yet? I'm sure it's no fun for him either but it does appear that he is trying to get your problem resolved. Good luck and hope you can get it worked out.....
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:56 PM   #69
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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You're the only person I've ever heard whine and be angry that a lead time on a custom part was significantly reduced. WOW.. I deal with a lot of custom orders in my line of work and I know there are runs of parts that when you're the first in line it can take weeks or months but sometimes you hit the end of a line that was just going into production and you wait weeks or months less. I've ordered custom cabinets that I expected and was told it would be 4 months to be built only to have the supplier call 2 months later and say hey we had canceled orders and moved you up so your cabinets are done.

It really seems like you are significantly difficult to deal with and if you were a client of mine I would be relived to have you and your poor attitude out of my life.











Peace
I see that this is your first post on this forum,welcome. I am not angry because of the fast delivery time. I am just curious as to how the "Custom" springs which I was told would take 3 weeks or so make were shipped in 1 week. Thank you for your comment
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Old 03-15-2018, 05:57 PM   #70
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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I know you are frustrated with your current situation but it looks like Stephen has asked a few times on the truck measurements. Have you done this yet? I'm sure it's no fun for him either but it does appear that he is trying to get your problem resolved. Good luck and hope you can get it worked out.....
Hello Jeff, I have been giving Stephen from ORD measurements but he does not seem to like them. Let me stare at the beginning. I had this 2" lift put in by men experienced in lift installations. Put the back in first and I was sick the back was so high they said it looked like a 6" lift or more. I had nothing to go by then so when I put in the front spring I measured very carefully from the bottom of the bumper to the shop floor. 20.5 before and 23.5 after. But Stephen did not like these measurements saying that they would be different at the wheel well. Fine. I have offered to put the truck in the same spot in that shop measure again bumper and wheel well then jack it up,put it on jack stands at the axle and measure it again and note any difference. That would establish the front height. I heard nothing back on that. But I had to install s 1/2" longer shackles on the front (as the front spring was riding on the frame),which ORD supplied for free and the height may have come up 1/2". I had put on new Rancho 9000 shocks RS999151 good for stock to a 2" lift. No problem here I lost 2" down travel but that was expected but the front shocks went on. I will get Bilstien shocks with more travel. Happy w/the front. Now to the back: when I went to connect the shocks I was shocked. When this shock was installed on the truck there was 4" of up/down travel,7.87" total travel as speced By Summit RS999118 The bottom of the shock,fully extended was 2" short of the axle mount. I drilled new holes in my frame 4" lower. The shock then would reach the axle mount but I only had 1.5" of down travel left. Add the 2.5" of down travel lost to the 4" lower holes in the frame I has a 6.5" lift initially. The springs I got were 56" and the originals were 52" so the rear spring mount had to be moved back 4" but ORD did send me the bolts and nuts. Fine,not a fun job. So, buy measurement of the shock the back came down 2.5". Measuring that lift now by the same method and the truck is heavily laden with a winters worth of snow I get a 4" lift loaded.
But Stephen @ORD doesn't like that measurement because he says he doesn't like those Rancho shocks. I can't see what difference that makes as I am just using them to get the lift numbers and pretty good ones too,I think. Conclusion: I want to quit dancing around the Maypole. I have told Stephen that I want the back 2" lower to bring my lift to 2" with the truck loaded not the 4" where it is at. But I am sure that Stephen will say that my measurements are no good. Lets see how this goes. Thank you very much for your post and concern. And I hope we can work things out too.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:22 PM   #71
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

and again:
We can’t really trust rancho (or any other brand) shock dimensions to measure your truck, it’s hard to make any shock work with how close the factory mounts are much less get away with changing the ride height a couple inches and still having decent travel. Bumper height comparison measurements aren’t a good reference number either since the angle on the truck can change the bumper height and the condition of your front springs factors in. There are some pretty good reasons we ask for and use the measurements we’ve asked for, it’s because they’re known points that we can compare with known references.

We use the front axle tube to bumpstop bracket distance to check front lift height because it takes into account all the variables of spring thickness, spring arch, shackle length, spring perch height and anything else you can think of to change the ride height and it’s not heavily affected by chassis angle of the truck. A stock truck should measure 8.5 to 9” for this front ride height. Your measurement of about 10.5” shows about 2” of lift.

Once we establish where the front sits we use a body line measurement to level the rear. This is where we need it driven straight onto a level surface and measurements taken over each wheel to the body crease. Then we will know where the rear sits compared to the front. We can also measure rear spring arch from a string line running over the eye center grease zerks to the top of the main leaf to check things but the body line is what determines where it sits from level.

The reason we ask for pictures is that can give us a way to find things like the rear shackle location problem.

After seeing the picture of the truck sitting level yesterday I suspect there won't be a problem and all this teeth gnashing is a waste of time.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:41 PM   #72
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

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Old 03-15-2018, 07:27 PM   #73
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Re: Bilstien shock experiment $$

as my self and other have said FORGET the rancho shocks for the time being . . . we all know they run there specs on the short side . some of us from first hand experience .

custom springs = possible custom length shocks OTHER than a so called lift range fitment !

we are asking very simple things here and if we get the answers we can FIX your problem .

why give up and stop with so many talented / helpful people trying to get you to the enjoyment level you were going for in a custom part .
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