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Old 11-23-2017, 01:16 AM   #1
Nuckingfuts
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Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

So with Christmas just around the corner I wanted to use the opportunity to pick up some heads for my son's '73 project truck as a surprise. He's been working hard to pay for parts on his own to this point so a little bit of help from Dad isn't a bad thing this time.

The engine is the original rebuilt sbc 350 5.7L with the following mods:

- Comp Cams Xtreme Energy Cam & Lifter Kit (11/2010): Summit# CCA-K12-238-2; Cam/Lifter, Valvetrain(timing chain, sprockets, springs, valve stem seals, etc.), Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 262int/270exh (Actual duration at 050” lift: 218/224), Lift .462int/.469exh. (Stock 350 SBC Cam Spec-estimated: dur @ .050 on that cam is 195/202)

- 1406 EB carb & Performer EPS manifold

- Full length headers, 2.25" exhaust with flowmaster mufflers

- 3.08 gearing

Basically I'm looking to increase low end torque and bump the hp a bit so I'd like to replace the stock heads with something but I just don't know what all of my options are so I'd like to get some direction from you guys. With a budget approach in mind, should I get...

1. Rebuild 062 Vortec heads on ebay (~$175/head but I have to send back cores which I don't have so I'm not sure what the extra cost will be here)
2. Summit Vortec heads like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-151124
3. Corvette Heads (which are best?)
4. Another option?

Ideally I'd like to utilize the components we currently have.

Last edited by Nuckingfuts; 11-23-2017 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 02:54 PM   #2
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

If you change to Vortec heads, which are a very good head....you will also need a new matching Vortec intake to go with it.
As well, you will need to check and see what else changes in terms of all your mounting bracketry...particularly if you have (stock) a/c brackets, etc.
The exhaust bolts right up I believe....but I'm not sure about the other brackets that are dependent on the factory mount locations.

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Old 11-23-2017, 02:57 PM   #3
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Corvette heads?....do you mean original GM 'period' corvette heads?
If so, the heads you would be after would be a '186' casting or an '041' casting....and they have all the correct mount/accessory holes in them for the truck bracketry.
'461' heads won't work in a truck application with a complete 'redo' of the brackets to an older style.
These are a direct interchange with your stock heads but offer better flow (not as good as vortec) and slightly raised compression due to their 64cc (vs. 76cc) combustion chamber.
The trick is to find a good set that you can buy and bolt on.

What is your realistic budget for all of this?...that is an important driving question.
$1000? $1200? $1500?.....$800? $500? or

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Old 11-23-2017, 04:11 PM   #4
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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What is your realistic budget for all of this?...that is an important driving question.
$1000? $1200? $1500?.....$800? $500? or

Coley
$1000 budget (including any parts needed to complete the install)
I've heard others here (i.e. Marv) speak of options that dont require new intake, self aligning rockers, etc (that the Vortecs require) so I'm definitely interested in hearing more on this point as it might help me keep the cost down and within budget.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:26 PM   #5
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Since you already have an intake, I would stay with a head that is designed for the typical 12 bolt intake. If you click on the link you posted on Summit for their Vortec heads, go to the upper right where it says 'View Similar Parts' and click on 'cylinder heads' You will see many choices to choose from. I would stay with a head that has no more than 180cc intake ports.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:42 PM   #6
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

743.00 free shipping

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-3...oAAOSw7ThUkH4f
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:05 AM   #7
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Now that seems like a good deal..
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:20 AM   #8
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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Since you already have an intake, I would stay with a head that is designed for the typical 12 bolt intake. If you click on the link you posted on Summit for their Vortec heads, go to the upper right where it says 'View Similar Parts' and click on 'cylinder heads' You will see many choices to choose from. I would stay with a head that has no more than 180cc intake ports.
Using what I've got makes sense if I can find a head that performs like the vortec, which seems to be the benchmark. I'll take a deeper look.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:22 AM   #9
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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Good find but won't I need to upgrade intake, rocker arms, etc?

Last edited by Nuckingfuts; 11-24-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:27 AM   #10
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Maybe look here.
http://www.aeroheadracing.com/chevy.html
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:17 PM   #11
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Quote:
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Since you already have an intake, I would stay with a head that is designed for the typical 12 bolt intake. If you click on the link you posted on Summit for their Vortec heads, go to the upper right where it says 'View Similar Parts' and click on 'cylinder heads' You will see many choices to choose from. I would stay with a head that has no more than 180cc intake ports.
Well I did what you said and looked through a bunch of options under 'view similar parts' and honestly there are a bunch of heads to pick from and I just don't know enough to understand which ones are a good choice. Most of the heads don't have any reviews either so I'm flying blind.

I guess what I was hoping is that there is a solid performing head out there that will give me a good bump of torque down low, work with my current cam, and allow me to use my manifold and most other parts. Maybe I'm asking too much for a $1000 budget, I just don't know at this point.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:29 PM   #12
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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Looks like there's only two options on that site within my budget, the first being the $400/pair (ARO-CH-SB350SS). The price looks appealing but how well do they perform, guess I'll have to call them directly to get some more info. The other option being the Dart Iron Eagles (ARO-CH-ID-SS) for $800/pr, aren't these pretty much the same head as the Summit head I linked above for $700/pr? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've read that the Summit heads are just Dart heads re-badged.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:20 PM   #13
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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Good find but won't I need to upgrade intake, rocker arms, etc?
no to the intake- use the one you have now. rockers -yes, but $68.80

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elgin-Engin...pZ-MMG&vxp=mtr
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:38 PM   #14
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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no to the intake- use the one you have now. rockers -yes, but $68.80

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elgin-Engin...pZ-MMG&vxp=mtr
I probably should have schooled myself before hand on the differences between the stock and vortec head (now I have to some extent) but you're right and that's great!! That brings this option to within budget constraints for sure as now I don't have to buy an intake, head bolts or center bolt covers.

Let me ask a few follow up questions comparing the Summit Heads linked above (SUM-151124) vs. the ebay linked EngineQuest Heads:

1. Made in USA vs. New Zealand, quality concerns/differences to be aware of?
2. Performance between the two expected to be relatively equal?
3. Summit heads require some machining to accommodate guide plates, is it safe to assume that I don't need to machine or install guide plates if I am using self-aligning rockers?


As far as the economics compare:

Option 1:
Summit Heads $700/pr
Summit Manifold SUM-226018 $160
Self-aligning Rockers $70
Head Bolts $70
Valve covers ~$100
Misc Fel-pro gaskets $50
TOTAL= $1150

Option 2:
EngineQuest Heads $740
Self-aligning Rockers $70
Misc Fel-pro gaskets $50
TOTAL= $860

Am I missing any questions or parts/machining costs?
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:46 PM   #15
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Hot Rod used Enginequest heads in Budget Sledgehammer

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0611e...c-small-block/
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:01 AM   #16
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Performance should be near equal

Never heard of any problems with the enginequest heads

No guide plate needed

these heads may weigh a few pounds more due to the thicker decks and heavier casting
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:07 PM   #17
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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Performance should be near equal

Never heard of any problems with the enginequest heads

No guide plate needed

these heads may weigh a few pounds more due to the thicker decks and heavier casting
I sure appreciate you (and the other members here) taking the time to answer my questions and help with suggestions. Looks like I've some parts to order this week.
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:21 PM   #18
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

When these heads come in, is there any fine tuning I will want to do to get the most out of them? Port work, upgrade seals, etc?
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:35 PM   #19
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

IMO since you are doing the heads for a little better power, and not all out power, I would run them as-is
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:35 PM   #20
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Well I've been doing some reading up this morning (actually a lot of it and my eyes are bleeding) on these EQ CH350H heads and I'm concerned with what I'm hearing across all the builder websites that have users with direct experience with them.

In a nutshell, the hybrid style vortec head (i.e. EQ CH350H) has lower flow numbers (when compared to 062s, Darts, etc.) as a result of having to accommodate the old style intake location/size. My understanding is that this is enough of a departure from the raised vortec style head design that engine performance suffers. Lots of praise for the EQ heads in general which is really encouraging though.

Last edited by Nuckingfuts; 11-25-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:54 AM   #21
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Couple follow up questions:

1. Can I use my stock pushrods with the vortec style head and self-aligning rockers or do I need a different length and/or hardened? (I'm assuming 0.040" quench)
2. Do I need to widen the pushrod hole when using self-aligning rockers?
3. Can I re-use my original head bolts or do I need to get newer style head bolts that use the torque+angle method?
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:15 PM   #22
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

Brodix 180, brand new in my area (not mine)....check craigs list East moline Il. he says 925.00, pick up. On the left coast, you are a long ways out, but it sounds like a smokin deal! They should work well with the kids truck/cam ect. Longhorn
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:11 AM   #23
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

1) The Vortec heads do not require a different length pushrod. The L31 Vortec engine uses the factory roller cam, which requires a shorter pushrod. It is always a good idea to check your engine assembly for the correct length pushrod. You do not need hardened pushrods when not using guide plates.

2) If this is oin reference to the Vortec heads, no you do not need to do anything with the pushrod slot unless you are running 1.6 rockers. The L31 Vortec engine came from the factory with self-aligning rockers.

3) Yes you can use your original head bolts as long as they are in good condition. However new head bolts is good insurance against a failure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckingfuts View Post
Couple follow up questions:

1. Can I use my stock pushrods with the vortec style head and self-aligning rockers or do I need a different length and/or hardened? (I'm assuming 0.040" quench)
2. Do I need to widen the pushrod hole when using self-aligning rockers?
3. Can I re-use my original head bolts or do I need to get newer style head bolts that use the torque+angle method?
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:47 PM   #24
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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Originally Posted by Warrens69GMC View Post
"EQ cylinder heads". Says 1969 to 1985 with a "vortec" chamber. Could be regular old swirl port TBI heads. But it has provisions for center bolt and perimeter bolt covers.

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Old 11-28-2017, 11:41 PM   #25
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Re: Help Me Pick Some Heads For Christmas Present

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1) The Vortec heads do not require a different length pushrod. The L31 Vortec engine uses the factory roller cam, which requires a shorter pushrod. It is always a good idea to check your engine assembly for the correct length pushrod. You do not need hardened pushrods when not using guide plates.

2) If this is oin reference to the Vortec heads, no you do not need to do anything with the pushrod slot unless you are running 1.6 rockers. The L31 Vortec engine came from the factory with self-aligning rockers.

3) Yes you can use your original head bolts as long as they are in good condition. However new head bolts is good insurance against a failure.

Thank you sir, I appreciate the confirmation on the questions.
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