200R4 Swap ?

[TobyArnot]

Hello group,

Anyone know what's involved in putting a 200R4 in a '70 C-10? I've only had the truck a few "hot" weeks and still working on a battle plan. The turbo 350 has sprung a few leaks and my first thought was OD. Truck has a factory 3.73 posi rear. Really don't want to lose that! Have a few parts on the way and would like to get on the road soon. Pretty sure I'm going with a 2-1/4 dropped disc brake non-power conversion. A 2" block in the rear. Have a few goodies on the way and looking for a break in the weather. My old ticker won't go much in the heat and humidity.

[mixermike]

it is my understanding that a 200R4 is a direct replacement for a turbo 350.

[JRBECK64]

Originally Posted by TobyArnot

Hello group,

Anyone know what's involved in putting a 200R4 in a '70 C-10? I've only had the truck a few "hot" weeks and still working on a battle plan. The turbo 350 has sprung a few leaks and my first thought was OD. Truck has a factory 3.73 posi rear. Really don't want to lose that! Have a few parts on the way and would like to get on the road soon. Pretty sure I'm going with a 2-1/4 dropped disc brake non-power conversion. A 2" block in the rear. Have a few goodies on the way and looking for a break in the weather. My old ticker won't go much in the heat and humidity.

TobyArnot,
I just put one in my 69 and it does bolt right in. As soon as my truck is able to move I am going to drive it stait to the Tranny Shop where they can adjust this thing properly along with installing the wiring for the Lock Up. I think the best advice is to go and talk with your local Tranny Guy that you know you can trust. My truck is about a week from being in the shop, once its in there I will tell you what they do to mine.

JRBECK64

[ebfabman]

I have one in my 72 swb fleet. Ez swap, ez tv adjustment. One of the best mods you'll ever make to your truck. I put about 3000 miles on a round trip to Oklahoma from north Carolina in June and it would cruise 80 mph easily. It's behind a 250 6cyl and the best part is it was $54 from pull a part.

[72BlckButy]

ebfabman.... what tranny was in your truck before you dropped in the 200r4?

Is the tranny mount in the same location for a 350 and 2 spd powerglide?

[gonzo6869]

Like said before, the Tranny will bolt right up, the only thing you'll have to modify is the Tranny mount, I believe you'll have to move it back 6", and heard there are some unused holes on the frame in that spot, so no need to drill. This is a swap I'll be doing, as soon as funds are available, so please keep in touch and let me know how the install goes and more importantly how you like the Tranny itself. I as well have 3.73's and its no fun on the freeway. Good luck with the install (from what I've heard its very easy) and enjoy.

Josh.

[cparman]

I did this to my 69 SWB. It is a bolt for bolt swap until you get to the crossmember, and it does need to go back. I love this trans because of the spread in gear ratios. The best way I can describe it is like a TH350 with one more gear change. Make sure that you get the TV cable adjusted properly, or there will be short life to that trans. if you get someone to build it for you, ask them to firm up the shifts. I used a lokar TV cable and their throttle linkage that will bolt up with not hassle to a Holley or an Edelbrock carb. Promise you will love this!

[72BlckButy]

Does anyone know if the tranny mounts would be the same for a powerglide and a 200R4?

[Longhorn Man]

its a 200 4R, NOT r4
I would not trust the average run of the mill tranny shop on adjusting this trany. Ask them how they would set it up in a non stock aplication. If they don't say anything about pressure guages and line pressure and possible custom bracketry, then hang up.
www.bowtieoverdrives.com
read up on this site, you'll know more than most tranny shops on the instalation.
The nuts and bolts of it is simple. Slide the crossmember back to the TH400 location, and drop the tranny in place. If you had the original style TH350 in there before (short tailshaft) then you won't need any driveshaft mods either.

[C20-67_N_MO]

I want to do this to my truck in the future as well.

[ebfabman]

I replaced a Saginaw 3 speed with the 200r4 or 2004r or whatever. I actually bought 2 of em because of all the reading I did in preparation for the swap, was expecting to blow one up which hasn't happened yet and its been in the truck for about 10,000 miles now. I did not check any line pressures or do any fancy brackets for the tv cable, in fact its attached with zip ties (really, I will post some pics) You will however need some adjustability for the tv cable, but its real easy. I did the swap purely experimental and was expecting some failure, but guess maybe I'm lucky. My truck has the stock 3.73's and I'm running a 28 inch tall tire. To lock up the converter, I just ran a jumper from the battery through a switch down to the solenoid prong on the side of the tranny. Very unsanitary install but it was experimental and on the CHEAP! As I said, this is a great mod and is worth doing right (not like I did, at least so far) You will love it.

[my1st69]

ok what tranny do i have I have never researched it I have a 69 C10 350 all stock

[JRBECK64]

Originally Posted by ebfabman

I replaced a Saginaw 3 speed with the 200r4 or 2004r or whatever. I actually bought 2 of em because of all the reading I did in preparation for the swap, was expecting to blow one up which hasn't happened yet and its been in the truck for about 10,000 miles now. I did not check any line pressures or do any fancy brackets for the tv cable, in fact its attached with zip ties (really, I will post some pics) You will however need some adjustability for the tv cable, but its real easy. I did the swap purely experimental and was expecting some failure, but guess maybe I'm lucky. My truck has the stock 3.73's and I'm running a 28 inch tall tire. To lock up the converter, I just ran a jumper from the battery through a switch down to the solenoid prong on the side of the tranny. Very unsanitary install but it was experimental and on the CHEAP! As I said, this is a great mod and is worth doing right (not like I did, at least so far) You will love it.

ebfabman,
I installed the Lockup converter pressure switch today. It was really easy, on the passenger side of the 200R4 there was a plug that I took out and installed the pressure switch. I then pluged the harness into the Driver Side of the tranny and ran it over the top of the tranny to the Pressure Switch. I then ran a wire, provided, to an accessory terminal in the fuse box and its all done. Im not usually lucky so I think its worth taking a trip to the Tranny shop to let them dial in the TV cable. In fact I found that both the end of the cable that goes through the plate on the back of the Carb is broken and so is the end peice that goes onto the carb linkage. Im wondering if someone reproduces the TV Cable or if you can buy one stock from Napa or something? I look forward to driving my Sons truck and see how it handles on the Highway. We have 33 inch tires on his truck and it has a 4.10 to 1 Gear in the back. Im guessing about 2400 RPM at 80. If I like it in this truck I am going to install one in my other Sons 64 Short wide. What kind of Gas Mileage did you get on your trip to Oklahoma?

JRBECK64

[cdowns]

i had a 2004R tranny put 50000miles on it a simple adjustment was all that was needed no gauges gizmos or line pressures were addressed it was a painless simple swap i never bothered with the lockup converter // was built for heavy duty and towing use from www.fbperformance.com they've been building and racing these for many many years on the east coast// i had to part the truck after the oaktree fell on it and that tranny is still in use in a 2wd suburban here in town some 10years after it was built

[TobyArnot]

STILL DAMN HOT, but,
I ordered the dropped spindles and found all the front disc parts a Ad***** Auto Parts and saved a bunch of freight. Pulled both front hubs today and am going to get ready to do the front (taking out one full coil also, plus three each side old twist-in spring blocks) . Meanwhile the turbo drips into a pan, but the more I read, the better the 200R4 swap sounds. Thanks to all, and will post progress (someday)

[pritch]

I just pulled the trigger last week. I ordered a 200R last Monday from Bowtie Overdrives. It was pricy, but what the heck. Money well spent, IMO. I don't know if it's still going on, but they had a free torque converter with purchase deal on last week, so that was a couple hundee off. Still $1900.00 and change delivered to Salt Lake, and I didn't get a TV cable, because I'm not exactly sure which engine/carb set-up I'm going with yet. I'm like 83% sure it's gonna be a supercharged 292, but we'll see. It was a tough decision between the 200 or the 700, but in the end I decided that I just didn't need the really low first gear. I'm pretty much done with burn-outs, and I always hated granny gear in a four speed non 4WD truck. Always seemed kinda pointless

[ebfabman]

Ok, here is a pic of how I ran the tv hook up. Its actually the throttle cable I have zip tied. Anyway, I think the most important thing is to get the geometry right, fine tuning adjustments are a matter of personal preference, weather you want longer softer shifts or shorter harder shifts. I don't think there is any black magic or mystical powers needed when it comes to the tv adjustments. I used a throttle arm off a carb that used a tv cable then welded it to the throttle linkage for the 250 six cyl. I made sure when the gas peddle was to the floor, the carb was wide open and the tv cable was all the way extended. As I said before, this was experimental and was temporary just to see if it would work to my satisfaction. It did, so I left it for now. This is my daily driver/work truck, but I think you can get the general idea. Its no big deal, anyone can do this mod.

[rsavage]

TV cable adjustment, in most cases, involves a little more than luck. If you have a quadrajet, a cable bracket from a Monte or a Buick or Pontaiac or Olds that came with a 200 4R should work (mid eighties). It is critical that the cable is pulled fully when you are at WOT and the throttle should be perpendicular to the base at about 1/4 throttle. If you hook up a pressure gauge (there is a pressure port near the shift selector shaft), you can assure that your pressures are increasing as the throttle is advanced off idle in each gear. You can find info on what the line pressures should be for the various gears online for a stock transmission. Too low of pressure will dust the transmission. Pressure is regulated by the cable pull and the length of the internal spring in the tranny. Longhornman's advice to read up on the BiwTie Overdrive's site is sound. Lots of good info there. I bought a used transmission that was once in an 84 Olds for my Burb. It works well ( I had to fab up a bracket for the 2 bbl) but shifts just like an Olds. I'll pull it this winter and beef it up slightly. Your 373's should be great with the tranny. Good luck and keep us posted.

[ebfabman]

Luck is what you make it. Here is a list of sites that I used when contemplating the swap.


http://www.webrodder.com/
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...hp?tid/189067/
http://www.tvmadeez.com/about.php
http://www.eatmyshift.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200701281.../thm2004r.html
http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=58354
http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/Auto...issionSwap.htm
http://www.lectriclimited.com/mainpage.htm
http://www.racetransmissions.com/mai...04R_lockup.pdf
http://www.extremeautomatics.com/techinfo.html
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech...e.asp#TH200700
http://www.drwtransmission.com/thm_200-4r.htm
http://www.ckperformance.com/resourc...OMPONENTS.html
http://www.2004rperformancecenter.co...p?intProdID=36
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/lockup.htm
http://www.oldspower.com/vb/archive/...p?t-22643.html
http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/
http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Inst...76600_inst.htm
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/2004RTIP.htm
http://www.200raptor.com/

There are more but these should be informative enough to help anyone thinking about the swap.

[68GMCCustom]

putting one in my truck behind a 500hp genIV 6.0L LSx. My trans builder gave me a TV cable with the trans, and the 2500rpm stall convertor was cheap when I bought with the trans. Mine was under $1200.

[cantcode86]

I have the 9" tail shaft, and from what I can tell the 700R4 would be the better choice. Am I correct in what I'm thinking?

[71meangreenc10]

The 200 has a better first gear for take off, if you get a 700 make sure it has been rebuilt, GM had issues with the front pumps on the early models.

Smitty

[POPO1984]

Originally Posted by 68GMCCustom

putting one in my truck behind a 500hp genIV 6.0L LSx. My trans builder gave me a TV cable with the trans, and the 2500rpm stall convertor was cheap when I bought with the trans. Mine was under $1200.

Who did you get the tranny from

[cantcode86]

Originally Posted by 71meangreenc10

The 200 has a better first gear for take off, if you get a 700 make sure it has been rebuilt, GM had issues with the front pumps on the early models.

Smitty

I would like to use the 200 but would like the easier install. I prefer not cut my drive shaft.

[BHyatt]

I got my 2004r at the local pick-a-part. I went on the day that they have a yearly special where anything you can carry 20 yards was $39.99. I pulled the Transmission from an 89 Cadillac along with the torque converter, wiring harness, flywheel (not really needed) and the brake light switch (for future wiring of automatic converter lock). All of the reading I have done, which includes the sites linked previously, suggests looking for the newest models possible since GM made a lot of updates through the years to insure durability. I have been pleased with the performance but my experience has been limited since I have been working on other areas of the truck. The shifts are going to need some fine tuning since they occur a little early at Wide Open Throttle. I plan to make some changes to the Governor that should correct this.

The swap was easy TH350 to 2004R. Simply slide the transmission crossmember back to the holes already in your frame for mounting the TH400 transmission. I even removed the mount that connected the TH350 to the crossmember and swapped it over to the 2004R. The factory 2004R mount was taller and had a single stud that went through the crossmember while the factory mount matched right up to both the transmission and the crossmember. The 2004R uses the exaxt same transmission yoke as the TH350 and your factory drive shaft will work perfectly. The mount is moved closer to the year of the transmission but, the overall length of the transmission is the same.

It is important to know that there are two different housing designs available for the 2004R. the one you want is referred to as the Buick-Olds-Pontiac-Cadillac housing as it will be a direct bolt up to your engine. If you plan on digging in the junk yard this will be important to know. By my experience scouting the local yards nearly every 2004R I found had this housing.

I pulled a TV Cable from a 80's Caprice ($5.99) along with the cable bracket. The Caprice had some sort of Throttle Body injection and the bracket placed the cable too far behind the Throttle Linkage on my Quadra-Jet. I ordered a bracket off of Ebay from Summit ($25.95 w/cheaper shipping than Summit.com) that allowed easy connection of the TV Cable. The factory cables have adjuster built into them just like all of the aftermarket ones do that allow for adaptation to different applications. When you look around at all of the vehicles these transmissions were installed in from the factory you realize that once they are installed on any V8 the distance from transmission to Carb./TB is going to be nearly identical so there really is no "magic" cable length. The more you look at it the more you begin to realize that there is a lot of mystery created to add value to aftermarket "special" parts.

700-R4 compared to 2004R? Simple answer: Buick Grand National. Look around at the GN websites and see what kind of power these folks are putting to the ground through a stock 2004R transmission.