Backwoods '66

[gtcox]

Hey everyone! I've been reading your threads for quite some time and really liked what I see so I have decided it's time that I join in.

Last July (2011) I got the itch to get my first old truck to work on because I wanted something that I could work on/fix up myself. After a few weeks of watching Craigslist I found a 1966 C10 stepside with small rear window, a 327 SBC and powerglide. Looking back on it I probably paid a little too much now that I've been working on it for a few months. Let me restate that. I KNOW I paid too much, I guess that's just a painful part of the learning process, this being my first truck build.

Forgive the poor quality--it's a cell phone picture.


Since I have several months to catch everyone up on, I'll be posting short threads with photos over the next few weeks so you can laugh at me and groan along with me as I show you this lovely project I've taken on.

A preview of what's to come...

Reasons to hate the previous owner.

5gal "custom" gas tank.

"That doesn't look like a 327..."

"2 bolts will hold that on, right?"

"Just hook a chain to it!"

Brakes are overrated anyway.

BLACK CRUD EVERYWHERE


Hope you enjoy!

[chevy_man5]

Holy huge picture!!!

Welcome to the site from Idaho!

[gtcox]

Let's start with the reasons to hate the previous owners.

Ok, so there's really only one big one. They gouged holes on the upper rear interior of the cab for 6x9 speakers. The speakers were hooked to a newer stereo head. No audio worked. The radio has since been moved to my father's F**d to replace his busted cd player.

Look in the very top corner and you can see one of the holes. The bench seat is something I got from a late 80's early 90's 1500 out of a junkyard. There were mid 90's bucket seats in when I bought the truck.


In that picture you can also see my "custom" gas tank sitting in on the passenger side floorboard. The original tank was all rusted to hell, so when I purchased the truck, the owner had a 2 gal can with a fuel line running into it. I upgraded to a larger can for the ride home. It was a designated non-smoking drive for obvious reasons. I've since bought a replacement in-cab tank.

[gtcox]

Thanks, Jason!

And yes, I'm going to have to work on resizing a lot of my pictures. Unless some of you enjoy reading this thread from across the room.

[gtcox]

So after the gas tank and seat were put in I started driving the truck to work occasionally. This was quite the experience given it was my first carb engine, my first manual steering vehicle...and other reasons you'll find out later.

Two things happened when I took the truck to work:

A coworker offered me $3000 or a trade for his 1963 5.0L F**d pickup. I immediately turned that offer down despite the price being quite a bit higher than what I paid. I wanted to work on my truck, what can I say.

A different coworker who has rebuilt--what he says--hundreds of Chevy engines, looked under the hood and immediately says, "that doesn't look like a 327..."



And being a newbie to the whole thing, I'd taken the seller's word and not checked numbers. And, in the guy's defense, I think he was lied to by the guy he bought it off of.

So I went home, scraped paint and gunk off and found the numbers. He was right, it wasn't a 327. The block was an early 80's 305 with 601 heads.

The good news, however, was that while I ran the numbers on the block, I also ran the numbers on the brand new carb which turned out to be a 750cfm Q-jet. So that'w as something, I guess.

[gtcox]

Next up, late 2011 and early 2012, I made my mind up. I went from the idea that I was only going to do small mods/fixes here and there to doing a frame-off restoration. Because, well, because I could.

So the doghouse came off.


You can see a little bit of the original sky-blue paint in this one under where the front fender used to be:


The 2001 Audi A4 Quattro in the background is also mine. The truck is my reason to stop putting money into the car, which I also have trouble doing anything to myself since it's got wires and...stuff...that I rather not mess with.

[gtcox]

"Just hook a chain to it!"

Caution, this may be painful for everyone.

After getting the doghouse and doors off, I took the bottom of the bed off. The original bottom and rails were long gone and had been replaced by some sort of sheet metal sandwich composite thing. I think that's the technical term. Underneath was a lovely surprise...



...I just don't know what I'm going to do about that yet. I think the story behind that bent rear rail went like this.

Redneck had something heavy to pull and hooked a chain to the front bar under the radiator support where that hole in the center is...that bend and snapped.

They then hooked whatever it was to the rear bumper. And the bumper ripped off. THEN they hooked it to that rail you see bent there...which pulled it off one rivet on the top left there and bent it some.

There's a special place in hell for people like that, right?



That's with the bed unbolted and pulled back slightly. The bed itself only had the rear left and front right bolts in it. 2 bolts, one bed. Might be one of the reasons my truck rattled so bad.

The front one isn't bent/twisted that badly. But still bad. I think if it's heated with a torch it can be bent back? And then fabbed. The rear one I think it would just be better to make a new one, right? What sucks is that due to a welding accident/death in the family, doing any welding myself is a big no-no just to keep everyone happy, so I'm going to have to find someone to do that and all the cab patching for a decent price.

[gtcox]

"Brakes are overrated anyway..."

This is pretty self explanatory/yet another surprise.



...all I did was take the wheel off and the brake cover which pulled off effortlessly.

Guess that explains the pull while stopping my truck when I drove it. Only one brake was like this.

[gtcox]

Next I attempted to remove the fenders. Like that was going to be easy...



So I made a new best friend...


Fact: My head and one shoulder can fit inside a stepside rear fender. That's fun with sparks and fumes, but this was the end result.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...g?t=1331606959

I don't know if anyone's noticed that stainless bed rails yet. Everyone who has seen my truck in person seems to really like them, but they're covering up a bunch of rust and I don't like how they're slid on over the old ones and then screwed on. Has anyone removed these before? Without destroying them? I want to deal with the rust under them and put them back on. They're on there really snug. I managed to slide one off about 18in using a mallet but that was all.

[gtcox]

And then the bed came off...



It's currently flipped up on end in the garage with the doors inside all strapped to the ceiling beam. Creative use of space. Notice the enlarged holes in the back of the frame rails where holes were drilled for the replacement bumper.

[gtcox]

Then I finally mustered up the courage to tear into the 305...Brace yourselves for black gunk.



This will certainly be reused. Q-jet 750cfm.


Can you see the crud in the middle? There was close to 1lb of it, I kid you not.


This is stock and I don't plan on reusing it [P#14057055]. Hoping to replace it with a Edlebrock Performer RPM down the road.


The 601 heads. 1.74 intake 1.5 exhaust. Probably a combined 1/2lbs of gunk caked on the underside of these.


After some of the crud was removed from the valley. From what I can tell those are the original dished piston heads.


Not sure if I want to reuse these or not.

[gtcox]

Then I finally mustered up the courage to tear into the 305...Brace yourselves for black gunk.



This will certainly be reused. Q-jet 750cfm.


Can you see the crud in the middle? There was close to 1lb of it, I kid you not.


This is stock and I don't plan on reusing it [P#14057055]. Hoping to replace it with a Edlebrock Performer RPM down the road.


The 601 heads. 1.74 intake 1.5 exhaust. Probably a combined 1/2lbs of gunk caked on the underside of these.


After some of the crud was removed from the valley. From what I can tell those are the original dished piston heads.


Not sure if I want to reuse these or not.


A couple of these took quite a bit of convincing to take out.

[gtcox]

In that last bit I mentioned reusing or not reusing stuff.

Right now I'm up in the air as to whether or not I want to hot tank and reuse the 305 block & heads with new piston heads, cam, and intake, or if I want to find another block that's easily capable of more horsepower and just give the gas station my bank account number every time I fill up.

I like the idea of keeping the 305 and trying to turn around 325-345hp out of it, which I know is doable from many things I've read. I'm pretty sure that no matter what, I'm going to end up putting a 700r4 tranny in. So with the 305 and overdrive the truck will be a pretty nice cruiser with a slight bit of performance.

And then I start entertaining the idea of putting a 454 in and blowing the doors off of all the yayhoos around here in their brand new "sports cars."

Don't say "it'd be cheaper to get a 350." I do not want a 350 even if my only reason is to be different.

Later on I'll post more about my build thoughts and options for the 305.

It really all just comes down to cost. If I can get a larger engine that's clean, and maybe only needs a cam, intake, and headers, then I'll probably bolt it on in. If not, I'll go with my efficient and cruise-worthy 305 and only pick on ricers and v6 mustangs. And make a lot of noise driving through town.

Oh, and in Indiana...there are no emission laws.

[losthope]

It would be cheaper to put a 350 in it.......

I only said that because you said not to! Some pretty sketchy stuff you had going on there! Good thing your going to redo the truck, All in all it looks like a decent truck. As far as the bent frame brace in the rear i would just take it out and try and heat and pound it straight or just make a new one..i know you said you just got a new gas tank but if you plan on a rear gas tank at all you most likely would have to remove that brace and reinstall it further back...looks like you dove in head first make sure you take plenty of pictures we enjoy them, and you might need to look back someday and see how some parts went together!

[LostMy65]

Welcome!

What a perfect topic for a thread!

Originally Posted by gtcox

Let's start with the reasons to hate the previous owners.

Ok, so there's really only one big one. They gouged holes on the upper rear interior of the cab for 6x9 speakers. The speakers were hooked to a newer stereo head. No audio worked. The radio has since been moved to my father's F**d to replace his busted cd player.

Look in the very top corner and you can see one of the holes. The bench seat is something I got from a late 80's early 90's 1500 out of a junkyard. There were mid 90's bucket seats in when I bought the truck.


In that picture you can also see my "custom" gas tank sitting in on the passenger side floorboard. The original tank was all rusted to hell, so when I purchased the truck, the owner had a 2 gal can with a fuel line running into it. I upgraded to a larger can for the ride home. It was a designated non-smoking drive for obvious reasons. I've since bought a replacement in-cab tank.

[gtcox]

Originally Posted by losthope

It would be cheaper to put a 350 in it.......

I only said that because you said not to! Some pretty sketchy stuff you had going on there! Good thing your going to redo the truck, All in all it looks like a decent truck. As far as the bent frame brace in the rear i would just take it out and try and heat and pound it straight or just make a new one..i know you said you just got a new gas tank but if you plan on a rear gas tank at all you most likely would have to remove that brace and reinstall it further back...looks like you dove in head first make sure you take plenty of pictures we enjoy them, and you might need to look back someday and see how some parts went together!

I knew someone would. I would probably put one in if I could get it dirt cheap and it made around 400+ hp. Who could turn something like that down?

I thought the heating/bending would be a good option in the front at least. As for the gas tank and rear relocation, I think I want to stick with the in-cab despite the fact that a tank relocation would make room for some nice speakers and all. But I like the fill location in the side of the cab too much. Don't know why, just do.

[McMurphy]

Originally Posted by gtcox

I knew someone would. I would probably put one in if I could get it dirt cheap and it made around 400+ hp. Who could turn something like that down?

I thought the heating/bending would be a good option in the front at least. As for the gas tank and rear relocation, I think I want to stick with the in-cab despite the fact that a tank relocation would make room for some nice speakers and all. But I like the fill location in the side of the cab too much. Don't know why, just do.

Wow .... I gotta laugh mostly at your own good humor, but you sound a lot like me when I was a tad younger, with a few tools a lot of energy, and some cool ideas!!
The chevy 305 is a fine motor, pretty dependable if you take care of it (like anything) but the HP to engine weight ratio is just not there.

I am going to put my "66 Tempest on a dyno this summer while I am home and with the Sprint built OHC6 230 in front of a BOP turbo 350 tranny, I am looking to get at least 215 horse. But that is with 1/3 less engine weight than a small block V8 (ok maybe a tad off on the weight difference by a pound or two)
Though on mine I am not looking scream off the line, I am going more for the wow factor at the end of the line when I pop the hood and people see an uncommon IL6 under there

You do have some work cut out for you, too bad for the welding taboo in your family. That is going to cost you!!

While you have it apart you may want to look at the rear mounted and larger fuel cell, especially with a V8 under the hood !!

Really cool thread so far, please keep us in pics, you got a fun read going on here!

[gtcox]

Originally Posted by McMurphy

Wow .... I gotta laugh mostly at your own good humor, but you sound a lot like me when I was a tad younger, with a few tools a lot of energy, and some cool ideas!!
The chevy 305 is a fine motor, pretty dependable if you take care of it (like anything) but the HP to engine weight ratio is just not there.

I am going to put my "66 Tempest on a dyno this summer while I am home and with the Sprint built OHC6 230 in front of a BOP turbo 350 tranny, I am looking to get at least 215 horse. But that is with 1/3 less engine weight than a small block V8 (ok maybe a tad off on the weight difference by a pound or two)
Though on mine I am not looking scream off the line, I am going more for the wow factor at the end of the line when I pop the hood and people see an uncommon IL6 under there

You do have some work cut out for you, too bad for the welding taboo in your family. That is going to cost you!!

While you have it apart you may want to look at the rear mounted and larger fuel cell, especially with a V8 under the hood !!

Really cool thread so far, please keep us in pics, you got a fun read going on here!

Glad you're enjoying!

It's funny you mention the I6. The first C10 I fell in love with was a '63 3/4 ton (I think) fleetside at a camp in Southern Illinois where I worked back around 2006. It was a great truck and my boss was going to sell it to me for $500 since it was just sitting but the higher powers decided that was too cheap and being just out of high school, I couldn't afford anything more.

[gtcox]

So, after pulling everything I could off the engine for the most part, I decided it was time for new toys this past weekend.



In that picture you can kind of see how I have my bed and doors suspended off to the left there.

Then it was time to put them to use. Broke out the 305 and powerglide all at once...and made a mess in the process. But what's heart surgery without a little blood?






Again, notice the ungodly speaker hole in the back driver's side of the cab?

I think I'm going to hold on to the tranny until I get a new one (just in case). Fun fact: you can fit small pallets from work in the back seat of an Audi A4. That starter was recently rebuilt, unsure of the condition of the torque converter; it was blue and missing some paint, how's that for technical?


Then got the 305 on the stand with creative use of those little things that go under the nut on the rocker arm as spacers. Hey, my bolts were just a little too long and it saved me from a trip to the hardware store! No, I don't plan on reusing them in the engine. I'm sure someone will tell me what the actual name for those things are, I'm just having a brain fart right now.


The bottom end looked alright from what I could tell. The PO in all his infinite wisdom only had the oil pan nuts on finger tight?


Got the cam out. The lifters were a pain in the ass (not reusing them either)! I tried pulling them out with channel locks and it took forever because they'd just get stuck and refuse to move. So I ended up pulling them up and letting them lodge which was enough clearance to get the cam out and after it was out I just knocked them into the engine with a screw driver and rubber mallet and let them fall out the bottom. To me this seemed rather barbaric, but I was getting frustrated. I hope I'm not making everyone cringe.




From what I can tell, the cam is stock or an OEM replacement. There are no numbers or colors on the end, only GM 29 0652 stamped between some of the lobes. I will not be reusing this either, planning on putting something a little meaner sounding in. 268H from Comp Cams?

Took these out of the heads the following day. Didn't notice any cracks or chips in them, but they're awfully gunked up. If I keep the heads are these something that I should clean and reuse or just toss for new ones? Getting new springs no matter what.


And now you're almost caught up on the build! Just in time for it to slow down because of lack of funds :\

If there's anyone interested in stuff like the stock intake manifold, cam, ext. to beef up those 350's of yours let me know and I'll see about shipping I am actually looking to get rid of the 16in Enkei rims though and eventually going with something a little more...classic. Don't know if I want to keep the 6 lug patter or go to five, guess I need to figure that out before I get the disc brake conversion kit. Was thinking something like these:

[McMurphy]

Originally Posted by gtcox

So, after pulling everything I could off the engine for the most part, I decided it was time for new toys this past weekend.

Man you are going to love that load leveler, especially if you do an engine/tranny install without the whole front end tear down.
I only took the hood off my "66 Tempest to do my engine/transmission swap and the leveler made it a sweet deal!

I just wish I had oiled or greased the threads of the leveler first, and at that time if I had the power tools that I do now, I would have mounted it "backwards" and just put the air wrench to it instead of all that cranking.

You seem to know your way around the engine.
Far far better than I do!!

keep us posted man, I like this.

[gtcox]

Originally Posted by McMurphy

Man you are going to love that load leveler, especially if you do an engine/tranny install without the whole front end tear down.
I only took the hood off my "66 Tempest to do my engine/transmission swap and the leveler made it a sweet deal!

I just wish I had oiled or greased the threads of the leveler first, and at that time if I had the power tools that I do now, I would have mounted it "backwards" and just put the air wrench to it instead of all that cranking.

You seem to know your way around the engine.
Far far better than I do!!

keep us posted man, I like this.

I realized the same thing about the oil on the leveler! It was a pain in the ass to crank...and the handle knob was a cheap screw on thing that kept falling off. Oh well.

Most of what I know about this engine stuff is just from hours of reading things online over the winter. When it comes to rebuilding I'm probably going to have a family friend who does vette stuff as a hobby come over and help. This is the same guy who put NOS on a v6 motorcycle and caught the brake lines on a vette on fire because his headers got too hot...I think he was pushing well over 100mph when he did that though.

I also have a great-uncle who used to rebuild but I hardly talk to him. Last I knew he'd just dropped 60k into building a chromed/velveted '34 F**d coupe. Wouldn't mind having that sort of cash flow for my project!

[gtcox]

Shortly after the engine/tranny removal there was an impromptu cab removal which would have been rather comical to watch if I weren't the one doing it. So here's what happened...I have a gravel driveway that is everything but level and the ground was somewhat soft to boot, so using the engine hoist to take the bed off wasn't going to work out. Ok, so we'll just use manpower! Easier said than done. Also, the front passenger side cab mount bolt spun...and spun...and spun. Ok, easy fix, right? Just use two wrenches and torque it off since 3/4 of the metal was rusted off. Problem with that. PO, genius that he was, patched the floor over top of the bolt head. Ok so we'll just guess where the bolt is and cut a hole to get to the head with the fraction of my last cutting disc I have left. That was easy enough. I think the strongest metal Chevy used on that truck was in the bolt, because, despite the decimated mess that used to be a bolt, it wouldn't snap. And wouldn't you just know it, I was all out of PB Blaster. I had also decided to do this Sunday evening after the local hardware was closed and the next nearest one was 20 miles away. So, after summoning all the power testosterone could provide and letting out a few He-Man and Thundercat roars, the bolt eventually came off and we were able to tip the cab off the frame onto some 8x8's holding a pallet. I didn't get any pictures of this silly process, but here's the final result.


So now I have a Flintstones convertible truck in my garage.


I'm really hoping to find someone no farther away from Indianapolis (45min) who can get all the patch welding done by the time that I'm done with the suspension and brakes in late Fall so it can be back on the frame and covered up for winter since I've regrettably agreed to have my side of the garage open for other vehicles...that are derivable. So we'll see. I need to start stripping more paint off the body parts to see if there are any other covered up rust spots, I've already found some on one of the fenders. Can we find a cure for regrowing rust after we're done finding a cure for cancer?

[gtcox]

Here's what I'm thinking about doing with my engine after the block and heads are hot tanked and magnafluxed. Let me know if you think this is a decent set up for a 305. I want to mostly do highway cruising, no really crazy performance stuff.

Q-jet 750cfm carb
Edlebrock Performer RPM intake for Q-jet
Comp Cams 268H kit with springs and timing gears
Maybe Silv-O-Lite Pistons with .100dome #144 (not sure if this will work with valve clearence)
New HEI distributor.
Stock ramhorn exhaust manifolds.

All hooked up to a 700R4 transmission (because I want an OD gear) and the existing 3.71 gears in the rear.

This is just a collection of stuff I've seen in other 305 builds that I've been kicking around. Like I said, if I get an unbeatable price on a larger engine like a 454 I'd love to go with something with lots of horsepower. But right now, this seems more realistic. My aunt has a 1500 she uses on her farm with a 454 in it. A mid 90's truck I think. She mentioned something about letting me have the engine out of it if they can't sell the truck. I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing an engine out of a Pick a Part if it weren't for the fact that you really have no idea what you're getting when you pull something from there. So many options! Why can't there be a perfect great gas mileage and 500hp combo! I really wouldn't mind running a BBC that got 30mpg

[gtcox]

I'd like to start this post with a story...

Once upon a time, in a garage not too far away from your very own, a little boy walked out into the garage. After the little boy looked around for a minute, he saw his father and asked, "Daddy, where do old trucks come from?" And his father replied, "Well son, when a daddy and a BFH love each other very much, they spend a lot of time together and eventually, a truck is born."

Ok, so I spent too much time using my BFH hammer today...I'll get to that in a min. But first...NEW TOYS!

In a "cheap" attempt to bend my bent crossmembers, I bought one of these nifty little kits.


The funny thing about that kit is even with the higher temp with the MAPP gas and O2 I still had to hold both that and a separate cylinder of propane on the metal to get it malleable enough to do much with.

The rear one before:


After:




As you can see, all I managed to do was get the top bend out, but the backwards bend towards the rear of the truck wasn't going to come out with just those little tanks. Oh well. So I popped the rivets off and took them out so I can take them to a friend's later and see if we can do anything with his toys. Oh, and to pop the rivets, I used my patented rivet-popping kit:



Yes, that's a railroad spike and yes, it worked beautifully! Here's what the things look like off the truck:



Pretty sad huh? I'm thinking the top one should be easy enough to bend back and patch. And I don't know if many of you can see this, but the very center of the lower cross member next to the scorch marks there's a rusted-through hole where the metal must have been weakened when it was originally violated by the PO.

More pictures of the related damage:





This is where the rivet actually ripped through the hole...


And more surprises!


One of the bumper brackets has a bit of an attitude problem too that BFH will have to correct later. The picture was actually taken after I got some of the bend out with the vice.

Then I took these off, wire brushed a lot more loose rust off the frame and called it a day.


The previously mentioned friend has also had powder coating done to his trailer and used POR-15 on his truck frame and says that he highly recommends POR-15 for my project just because it's easier to retouch and is more durable than powder coating. It will also save me $500!

Until next time [which will probably be me arguing with pulling the suspension and axle off]!

[gtcox]

More progress on the front suspension! Basically I took everything off the front, though the spindles and control arms aren't completely disassembled yet. Here are the pictures:

















And there it is. Like magic...that took a couple hours. And in case anyone's wondering why there always seems to be a tire right in the way, I generally use them as stools because they're the perfect height. Someday I'll have to get them completely out of the way, but for now, they have a purpose.

Also, you'd think that since I've been over this frame several times with a wire cup brush on the grinder that most the dirt and grime would be off by now, but no, not even close. I keep sweeping piles of it up.



And lastly, a few months back I got a free hat. WOO FREE STUFF. But it's white. White hats get dirty and there's no stopping it, so I decided that if it's going to get dirty I might as well just get it over with, so it became the shop hat. Here's some free advertisement for the Old No. 7.



I actually thought about painting just the Old No. 7 part on the doors once the truck is done...but I figured with even the slightest swerve while reaching for something in the cab and I'll have cops lighting my ass up.