Remote solenoid install by pictures

[landarts]

I am currently restoring my 72 1/2 ton LWB Cheyenne. When I purchased the truck from P.O. it had headers installed on the SB 350. Every once in a while a would make quick stops to run into the store or whatever and come right back within a few minutes to jump in the truck and go-- and that was a no go, not even a click from the starter. The heat from the headers would get the starter so hot that it would not start until it cooled down or I dumped water on it. So the problem starting getting worse and more frequent so I decided to get a new starter , heat shield , and a remote solenoid kit from MAD electric. The pictures will show what it took to get'r done. I have to say it was not as hard as I thought it would be to do the install and the truck starts great without the heat problems.

[landarts]

Picts part 2

[landarts]

Picts part 3

[landarts]

One more quick thought on the whole process I did above. When I removed the old starter it had two shims on the top side of the starter. So when I installed the new starter I re-installed those two shims. That caused the starter to make terrible noises. So I took the starter in and out at least four times shimming in different locations and quantities until it sounded right. Is there a right way to go about the shimming process of a starter?

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by landarts

One more quick thought on the whole process I did above. When I removed the old starter it had two shims on the top side of the starter. So when I installed the new starter I re-installed those two shims. That caused the starter to make terrible noises. So I took the starter in and out at least four times shimming in different locations and quantities until it sounded right. Is there a right way to go about the shimming process of a starter?

When you get a new starter, it should come with a little bar that helps you shim it correctly.

[landarts]

I used the shims that came with starter , and the shims from the old starter.

[Sinister]

Cool write up. I think a remote solenoid is a necessity when running headers. I did mine with a F@rd solenoid.

[Sinister]

Here's a diagram if your running a permanent magnet mini starter.

[ChevLoRay]

When I changed my carb/intake from stock intake w/adapter to an Edelbrock Q-Jet (instead of the 1405 manual choke Edelbrock) and a Performer intake, I had a heat-soak problem with my starter. You can blame it on the headers if you like but a lean mixture will make for a hotter combustion process.

All I did was add the heat shield to the starter solenoid and the heat soak issue never recurred again. Did I consider going to a Ford starter solenoid? Sure, but not when the heat shield did the trick w/o any wiring changes.

Glad you're happy with what you did. The writeup is good info for anyone who has this problem and takes the same avenue you did.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Ive hooked a lot of Ford type selenoids up as a relay but just use it for the wire comeing from the switch. What's the use running the bat cable through it? You won't gain any thing.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Wrenchbender Ret

Ive hooked a lot of Ford type selenoids up as a relay but just use it for the wire comeing from the switch. What's the use running the bat cable through it? You won't gain any thing.

No idea. When I was researching to do this it seemed all the diagrams online were like that. When I did my first one using a Summit kit, I think it was like that as well.

[mclairmo]

Originally Posted by landarts

I used the shims that came with starter , and the shims from the old starter.

Usually, I just use a large paper clip and measure the gap between the starter pinion gear (fully extended) and the flexplate/flywheel teeth to makes sure the paper clip slides with a slight drag between the bottom of one starter pinion tooth and one valley (between teeth) in the flexplate/flywheel teeth. Too much clearance will give you noise like a grinding and eventually round off the teeth, too little clearance may prevent pinion engagement and cause a chattering noise.

[truckster]

I run a 350 with headers, but maybe I'm missing something here. When you energize the remote solenoid, it energizes the stock solenoid, which has to function for the starter throw-out (Bendix) to work. I can see how adding a heat shield would help, but I really don't understand how the second solenoid helps.

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by mclairmo

too little clearance may prevent pinion engagement and cause a chattering noise.

Or could cause the starter to stick in the flywheel.

After killing 9... that's right... 9 starters... I'm a freakin expert at shimming them now.

I've blown them up.
Had them stick engaged, and had to blow them up... around 20 mph.
I even had to break one in half to prove to O'Reilly's that it was too far off to shim correctly.
They sure do regret that "lifetime warranty" with me and my starters. LOL!!!

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by truckster

I run a 350 with headers, but maybe I'm missing something here. When you energize the remote solenoid, it energizes the stock solenoid, which has to function for the starter throw-out (Bendix) to work. I can see how adding a heat shield would help, but I really don't understand how the second solenoid helps.

I was wondering the same thing.
Seems like it wouldn't need the solenoid on the starter anymore with the one on the fender.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

By using a solenoid on the wire from the ign. switch you avoid the voltage drop from all the wire going in to the inside of the dash, the ign. switch, & the neutral switch. I have solved many intermittent starting problems with this. But there is no use running the battery cable through it. You will get a 1/2 volt drop that way. Chev. has not used a Bendix drive since the mid 30's. The drive gear is pulled in by the solenoid on top the starter which switches on the starter at the same time.

[landarts]

I had bought the kit about five years ago when I first got the truck back when I lived in Arizona. I recently put the truck into the daily driver rotation and I was having several problems as stated below with the headers causing heat to the starter area. I got tired of dumping water on the starter or sitting in my truck waiting for it to cool down . So I did the install and it has worked out great for me.

On the other issue with the starter I should have explained better. I have never had to change a starter on a Chevy truck before and was not familiar with the shim techniques. I did use the shims that came with the starter as well as one other shim from the old starter and finally got it right

Here is the purpose of the remote solenoid - Copied from the MAD electric site.
After the START'M UP kit has been installed, the only cable routed to the starter is the large cable, and it will be "electrically dead," except for during engine cranking. (No more "live" positive battery cable routed down to the starter, where it might become shorted.)

No longer will those small wires be routed to the starter–where they are often very difficult to work with. No more small starter wires burned by the exhaust system on V-8 and V-6 applications. (The small wires will be re-routed to the new, remote, solenoid, supplied in the kit.)

Connection of a mechanic's remote starter button (with alligator clips and wires) will be easy. It's a very useful feature for engine service work, which requires "bumping" the starter. Examples of such use is adjusting valves, finding timing marks, testing compression, and installing distributors.

The POSITIVE battery cable will be connected to a large stud at one side of the new solenoid, which provides a great place for connecting accessories directly to battery positive power. It's much neater and more reliable to connect wires here than directly to the battery posts, where they are subject to corrosion and look messy. Wires that may be connected here might be; the alternator to battery "charging wire," the dash area "main power-up wire," and wires to relays. (Relays for electric radiator fans, headlights, fuel pumps, and other accessories.)

GM HOT START PROBLEMS

There are two independent categories of hot start problems with the GM DELCO built starting system.

(1) Nothing happens when the key is turned to "START"–although the headlights will burn brightly, and the rest of the electrical system is fine. The problem most often occurs in hot weather, and with the engine warmed up, after about a ten-minute stop. (Heat increases resistance at wiring and electrical parts.)

[Andy4639]

This schematic shows the battery cable running off the same side of the solenoid. [The big terminals] The starter has a hot cable all the time in this schematic.


The selonoid is a electric switch to turn on/off the circuit. How does this work as shown. The two smaller terminals are the on/off side of this and the larger terminals are the load. Can you explain this to me so I will understand it.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by Wrenchbender Ret

By using a solenoid on the wire from the ign. switch you avoid the voltage drop from all the wire going in to the inside of the dash, the ign. switch, & the neutral switch. I have solved many intermittent starting problems with this. But there is no use running the battery cable through it. You will get a 1/2 volt drop that way. Chev. has not used a Bendix drive since the mid 30's. The drive gear is pulled in by the solenoid on top the starter which switches on the starter at the same time.

Bendix is the name a lot of us old-timers use for the throw-out on the starter. While not technically a Bendix drive, they perform the same function.

[cokeb]

Andy 4639, in that picture the solenoid is not switching the + battery cable, only switching the small wire that is being used to energize the G.M. solenoid, the + battery cable going to the starter is always hot. This diagram provides a full 12 volts to the G.M. solenoid without the voltage drop that will be seen through the bulk head connector to the ignition switch and back out to the solenoid. Clear as mud I hope?

Craig

[Andy4639]

Sorry but it's not. The 2 big terminals have nothing to do with the two small terminals as far as what passes through them they are seperate circuits. If the battery cable is on one terminal and the other side is a on/off how can this be a full circuit?
The battery cables should hook to each big terminal. One in from battery then one out to starter. Then one small ignition wire to solenoid from key then out to ground. This will give you straight battery to starter the key switch has nothing to do with it. It's just to turn the slonoid on/off. I have been hooking solenoids up for years. I have never seen this before.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

Sorry but it's not. The 2 big terminals have nothing to do with the two small terminals as far as what passes through them they are seperate circuits. If the battery cable is on one terminal and the other side is a on/off how can this be a full circuit?
The battery cables should hook to each big terminal. One in from battery then one out to starter. Then one small ignition wire to solenoid from key then out to ground. This will give you straight battery to starter the key switch has nothing to do with it. It's just to turn the slonoid on/off. I have been hooking solenoids up for years. I have never seen this before.

You need to look closer at the diagram. The positive battery cable A will connect to the other side B when the wire from the ignition switch energizes the small terminal on the solenoid. This allows voltage to go from the battery cable to the S terminal on the starter solenoid via the small wire on B.
The other small terminal on the remote solenoid has to be grounded to complete the circuit on the relay coil. You are correct that the two circuits are separate.

[Andy4639]

This is what I'm try to find out. Why have the load on one side and a smaller amp wire on the other.
VetteVet,
I understand the principle of the selonoid just not understanding the wiring here. Why are you using smaller wire for the outlet side? I'm not wanting to be a pain, just wanting to understand.
I have wired all kinds of selonoids in golf carts up to 144 volts and have never seen one wired like this. I have wired them in series and Parallel and never seen this done.

Here is a solenoid I hooked to 72 volts. The two bigger cables are seeing 72 volts at 150 amps, the smaller two wires are the activating @48 volts and about 40 amps.






Seems to me you would run the battery cable off the b side to starter then a small jumper to the s terminal. This way the amp draw is all the same. the remote selonoid is just 12 volts with very low amp draw. I'm assuming the remote selonoid is grounded by the frame since no wire is shown. I'm truley not trying to be a pain. I just want to understand this wiring.
This is how I would have done it. This way you get full amperage and it's cut off when not being used. Can you tell I'm bored @ work.

[VetteVet]

Well Andy technically speaking the large cable is not the load, it is the power supply.
This diagram is just another way to get the positive battery power to the starter solenoid to the S terminal without the voltage drop that WrenchbenderRet explained earlier.
Your diagram works just as well and is actually the more common way of doing it.
Here is another version for you to chew on. It uses the Bosch relay and you won't have to pay for a solenoid.

[landarts]

In my installation of the kit I removed the s-terminal wire from the old starter solenoid and placed it on the s-terminal of the remote solenoid.
Then removed the r- terminal wire from old solenoid and placed on remote solenoid r- terminal.
Then installed buss bar across the s-terminal and positive terminal on starter. Also installed battery cable on positive post of starter....there are no other wires hooked to the starter now except the positive battery cable which goes up to the right side of the remote solenoid.
Then hook the positive battery cable to positive side of battery and the left post on the remote solenoid.
Then extended the wires that were hooked to the positive battery post over to the left side post of the remote solenoid.

Jim