The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > General Truck Forums > All 4x4 Tech & Off Roading

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-24-2011, 01:58 AM   #26
DirtyLarry
Windy Corner of a Dirty Street
 
DirtyLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pueblo West, Colorado
Posts: 2,897
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy1TonFun View Post
DirtyLarry you can call BS, but this is the voice of experience. I shatter my trans casing and that was with the frame attachment. I was just giving my two cents.
I still call BS. Voice of a lifetime of experience of 20ish year old guy on 1 single truck? I am sure that your 18 of lift, 40 tires, 468 BB and questionable engine and driveline angles as well driving habits through mud races may not have had anything to do with the transmission case breaking, right?

Sorry but I still harbor suspicion with you from THIS Pirate deal from a few years ago. Post #70 at Pirate. Once you play forum games like that it is hard to recoup yourself with guys older than you that still have good memories.
DirtyLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 02:10 AM   #27
vectorit
What?
 
vectorit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 7,539
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Interesting.
__________________
Chris
1968 K20 Suburban
vectorit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 02:27 PM   #28
Redcap
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lewis County, WA
Posts: 1,518
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy1TonFun View Post
DirtyLarry you can call BS, but this is the voice of experience. I shatter my trans casing and that was with the frame attachment. I was just giving my two cents.
You are mistaken.
Redcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 07:49 PM   #29
Zoomad75
Registered User
 
Zoomad75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pueblo, CO
Posts: 1,230
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy1TonFun View Post
DirtyLarry you can call BS, but this is the voice of experience. I shatter my trans casing and that was with the frame attachment. I was just giving my two cents.
I might be reading this the wrong way, but doesn't that statement just prove what Larry's been saying all along? He shattered his trans case and that was with the frame attachment.

Maybe I haven't had enough beer yet.
__________________
Rob Z.
1975 K5 350/465/205/D44/12b 4" lift on 35's- RIP
1991 K5 5.3L/700r4/241/D44/14b Under Construction
Zoomad75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 08:19 PM   #30
powerdriver 1958
Kid's Mechanic
 
powerdriver 1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 8,212
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Looks like we have a difference of opinion ,So lets hold the outside this forum battle down....

However My opinion mirrors Larry's . I run an 84 3/4 mudder 3 years racing in a bunch of pits around Kansas City . 350 turbo and a 205 transfer . No transfer brackets no rods from the mounts.

I beat on that thing hard , from the time the green flag dropped till i run out or the red flag was thrown I never lifted . No problems with adapters , No problem with transmission housings .

1 year and a 1/2 I run it as a long bed , Then as a short bed .
powerdriver 1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 09:26 PM   #31
1972RedNeck
Registered User
 
1972RedNeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Townsend MT
Posts: 1,545
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

I will never ever use my truck that hard (I have others for that). I will still get a brace rod. I don't know why.
__________________
1990 F350 4X4 4BT
1966 F250 4X4 416
1972 K20 350 4 OTF
1972RedNeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 09:31 PM   #32
powerdriver 1958
Kid's Mechanic
 
powerdriver 1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 8,212
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

...
powerdriver 1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2011, 02:20 AM   #33
csb#356
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 308
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomad75 View Post
I might be reading this the wrong way, but doesn't that statement just prove what Larry's been saying all along? He shattered his trans case and that was with the frame attachment.

Maybe I haven't had enough beer yet.
I've had plenty of beer but still confused by this
csb#356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2011, 10:38 AM   #34
mud slut 350
Registered User
 
mud slut 350's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Navarre Fl
Posts: 93
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyLarry View Post


No way. The side bracket creates more problems that it saves, which is why GM quit using on trucks build after ‘72. That is information straight from a retired GM truck engineer. The support rod between the tcase and trans bellhousing is not a bad idea to add but still not required.
Aggreed. on all my K5s that ive had and the k10 i have now never had ANY braces from the t case. Thought about puttin that bar back on when i added the 465 but never got around to it never had any problems with any of them. Then need to flex.

QUOTE: DirtyLarry you can call BS, but this is the voice of experience. I shatter my trans casing and that was with the frame attachment. I was just giving my two cents.

Thats why it broke there was no give between engine, trans, and tcase with ur t case tied to the frame so it gave way at the weakest link a.k.a that adapter with the 4 bolts to the trans without it being tied to the frame the eng trans and t case torque as a whole on the engine and trans mounts. think about it this way. you have a peice of paper write engine on one end, trans in the middle and tcase on the end. grab each end and pull it kinda snug twist the side with the engine written on it simulating torque from the engine, and leave the t case side still simulating it being bolted to the frame. Where does the twisting occure? in the middle or the "trans". now that same peice of paper twist again and let the t case side twist with the engine side simulating it being on rubber bushings and theres no stree in the middle. All the stress goes to the eng mounts and the trans mounts once they bottom out the bushings and set on the solid frame. Now nothing can flex any more than something else its all one solid peice. Hope it helps ya get the picture 1 ton
__________________
82 k10 350sbc, sm465, np205, dana 60 front 14 bolt ff rear 4 inch susp lift 33's aka "MUD SLUT"

2007 cbr 1000rr

Last edited by mud slut 350; 12-25-2011 at 10:45 AM.
mud slut 350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 12:01 AM   #35
lowrollin70gmc
Too many projects
 
lowrollin70gmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Fargo, ND land of the flat hills
Posts: 1,092
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

I'm dragging this back up for another question on NP205 support. Looking for Larry's advice on the matter, knowing his level of experience.

I clocked the 205 behind my Cummins/NV5600 flat with a Trail Tech Fab adapter. At the same time I ordered their NP205 support kit. It attaches to the rear of the case, opposite the front driveline and features a poly bushing. Any opinions on this means of support? It is closer to the center than a stock frame mount and does have a bushing.

Adapter (stock photo, mine is welded up and installed so no good pictures)



Support kit


I haven't welded up the support kit, so opinions are welcome.
__________________
Andrew
SEMPER FIDELIS -- OEF 9, 10, 11
84 GMC C1500 SWB
6.2 Diesel/700R4/3.42 "Grandpa's odd duck"
70 GMC C1500 LWB
Bagged: she lays frame and cruises low
68 K20 Suburban
12V Cummins/NV5600/NP205/D60/11.5AAM 3.73s "The Dakota Cadillac Build Thread"
63 Chevy II Nova Coupe
250 I6/T56/4.56s "Economy car"
30 Ford Model A
Tudor Sedan (Pontiac OHC-6 waiting to go in)
16 Focus ST
252hp/6 speed fun daily driver
lowrollin70gmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 12:24 AM   #36
mud.man.rj
Registered User
 
mud.man.rj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Creighton Sask. Canada
Posts: 3,840
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

My sm465 in my 71 doesn't have one, glad now, noticed it was missing but my engine is chained to the frame (with 3/4" slack) to help. Got to control the HP.
mud.man.rj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 12:35 AM   #37
lowrollin70gmc
Too many projects
 
lowrollin70gmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Fargo, ND land of the flat hills
Posts: 1,092
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

I'll be about 350 hp / 800 lb-ft once I finish turning up the Cummins. I've held back on playing with the pump until everything else is beefed up and this is one of the last things to do.
__________________
Andrew
SEMPER FIDELIS -- OEF 9, 10, 11
84 GMC C1500 SWB
6.2 Diesel/700R4/3.42 "Grandpa's odd duck"
70 GMC C1500 LWB
Bagged: she lays frame and cruises low
68 K20 Suburban
12V Cummins/NV5600/NP205/D60/11.5AAM 3.73s "The Dakota Cadillac Build Thread"
63 Chevy II Nova Coupe
250 I6/T56/4.56s "Economy car"
30 Ford Model A
Tudor Sedan (Pontiac OHC-6 waiting to go in)
16 Focus ST
252hp/6 speed fun daily driver
lowrollin70gmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 08:09 AM   #38
b454rat
Senior Member
 
b454rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 2,724
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

The last truck I built was a 454 4-speed with a later 205. Had 35" tires on it. I didn't beat the crap out of it, but gotta have some fun with a big block stick truck. That didn't have a brace on it. All the trucks I've owned, worked on, stripped parts off of in a junkyard, DIDN'T have that brace. Even with a small block, when you jump on it you can feel the drivetrain twist, shifter can move 3-4" maybe more. If you have that brace on there, the one piece is trying to hold the entire drivetrain from twisting. The t-case itself isn't gonna break, the wee little adapter is gonna take the force of it. I've had some 80s trucks with the 208 that had braces to went to the bell housing, but took them off and still didn't have a problem.

If you want to brace or add some support, that brace shown above would OK. Or some other type, but it needs bushings so it can flex with the rest of the drivetrain.
__________________
1999 GMC CCSB with some stuff
b454rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 03:08 AM   #39
argonaut
Senior Member
 
argonaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,664
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

This thread is an interesting read. It is true that the T/C torque mount would be the cause of adapter and bellhousing failures.

I do see that some on here have said they weren't used on 73 and up trucks. I'm wondering about the validity of that statement only because my 73 K20 had the mount. Not to say that someone didn't add it on later, thinking it was necessary. I'm wondering when GM truly did stop using them.

Also, does anyone have a picture of what the alternative torque rod looks like? I've never seen this before.
__________________
Jason M.

1966 K20 Short Fleet Pickup, Big Ugly
1964 K20 Suburban Carryall, The Seahorse
1964 C10 Short Fleet, Gertrude
1981 Fiat Spider 2000
1996 Ford Bronco XLT
2008 Honda CBR1000RR
2005 Honda RC51
1981 Honda CB750C


No dis-assemble Johnny Five! No dis-assemble!
argonaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 03:31 AM   #40
Redcap
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lewis County, WA
Posts: 1,518
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck View Post
I will never ever use my truck that hard (I have others for that). I will still get a brace rod. I don't know why.
It is always a good idea to know why you are doing something.
Redcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 08:07 AM   #41
jjzepplin
Registered User
 
jjzepplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Riverview Florida
Posts: 2,859
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

I ran without that bracket for over ten years beating the he!! out of my drive train with 36" Swampers. I did snap my adapter during a head on 55 mph accident though. When I went to replace it I spoke to a shop that rebuilds t-cases and that's it. They told me the one I had was a weak version. It had a support bearing. They said to get the one without that bearing as the casting was much stronger. I have two now just in case. I have that strut but cannot use it as I have a crawl box. If any one wants it for shipping costs it's free! I will recycle my t-case frame brackets...
__________________
I wish I found this site when I was 19 and bought my first 72.
It's just another big pretty scar.
70 swb 4x4 406sbc 700r4 203/205 d60/14blt locker yadda yadda http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...88#post6935688
72 Blazer 2wd conversion project "No Daggum Money" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=550804 3.73 posi-4-speed Saginaw-307-no budget build.
jjzepplin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 01:15 PM   #42
argonaut
Senior Member
 
argonaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,664
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

I'll take you up on the strut.
__________________
Jason M.

1966 K20 Short Fleet Pickup, Big Ugly
1964 K20 Suburban Carryall, The Seahorse
1964 C10 Short Fleet, Gertrude
1981 Fiat Spider 2000
1996 Ford Bronco XLT
2008 Honda CBR1000RR
2005 Honda RC51
1981 Honda CB750C


No dis-assemble Johnny Five! No dis-assemble!
argonaut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 05:53 PM   #43
DirtyLarry
Windy Corner of a Dirty Street
 
DirtyLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pueblo West, Colorado
Posts: 2,897
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrollin70gmc View Post
I'm dragging this back up for another question on NP205 support. Looking for Larry's advice on the matter, knowing his level of experience.

I clocked the 205 behind my Cummins/NV5600 flat with a Trail Tech Fab adapter. At the same time I ordered their NP205 support kit. It attaches to the rear of the case, opposite the front driveline and features a poly bushing. Any opinions on this means of support? It is closer to the center than a stock frame mount and does have a bushing.

I haven't welded up the support kit, so opinions are welcome.
Somehow I missed this one back in September. That looks like a nice set up there for hardcore use! As long as the tcase is allowed to rotate with the transmission/engine assembly instead of being tied to the frame, that would work great. Nothing wrong with added beef to connect the tcase to the transmission.
DirtyLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #44
72BBCK20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 27
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

This is an interesting topic, I am currently in the final steps of a 72 K20 build with car 427BBC/NV4500/6 bolt round pattern NP205. the powertrain is mounted to an 86 K30 motor and transmission crossmembers with 86 motor and trans mounts. I also installed the tcase to frame bracket. Should I remove the side T/C mount without adding anything else in place? Is this not to much cantilever weight for the NV4500 aluminum tailhousing? NOW is the time to do something before she's back on the road.
72BBCK20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 03:09 PM   #45
CrewCab59
Senior Member
 
CrewCab59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Knoxville,TN
Posts: 955
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

With the 4spd long adapter they tend to be weak to start with.

Those builder t-case supports do more damage than without and mixing poly and rubber.
__________________
1972 Custom Deluxe 20 4x4 burb
1971 GMC SWB CST 4x4
1972 GMC k20 4x4 (X- brush truck )
1971 Chevy CST Blazer 4x4
1970 Cab Chassis C30 157"
1971 Cab Chassis Custom 30 Deluxe 157" 292/4spd ( Napco Replica )
1988 Chevy V30 4x4 wrecker challenger 4812
CrewCab59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 12:17 PM   #46
Alex V.
Registered User
 
Alex V.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Campbellsville, KY
Posts: 667
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by argonaut View Post
This thread is an interesting read. It is true that the T/C torque mount would be the cause of adapter and bellhousing failures.

I do see that some on here have said they weren't used on 73 and up trucks. I'm wondering about the validity of that statement only because my 73 K20 had the mount. Not to say that someone didn't add it on later, thinking it was necessary. I'm wondering when GM truly did stop using them.

Also, does anyone have a picture of what the alternative torque rod looks like? I've never seen this before.
I have a '74 K10 at the moment that had the T-case side brace. The rear diff. and driveshaft have been replaced, and the trans./T-case mount has been broke clean off and welded back together - being a factory 454 truck, it's easier to figure how this happened than if it had been a 6 cyl. truck all its life, as it is now. I can't say with 100% certainty that the truck came from the factory with the T-case brace, but it sure doesn't look like it was added on. However, the evidence presented here suggesting the driveline is under less stress when the brace isn't there makes sense to me so I'm going to leave it off.

FWIW, originally the truck was a 454/auto (currently has a TH350, not sure if it's original or not) with an NP205 and a few HD suspension options - shocks and front springs, IIRC.
__________________
Alex V.
------
1967 C10 Suburban, 350/NP435, Green/Green, PS, PB, HD cooling, charging, shocks, and springs.
Alex V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2014, 12:20 PM   #47
72BBCK20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 27
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

What about making some sort of "pinion snubber" type of bumper on the skid plate just to support the overhanging weight of the 205 on that aluminum nv4500 tail housing?
__________________
72 K20 433BB/nv4500/np205/D60/14BFF/6inch lift on 38's
72BBCK20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 10:20 AM   #48
gmc 2500 4x4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: fredonia ny
Posts: 2,276
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

glad i found this thread, i just bought new bushing kit for the t/c bracket on my '69 k20 now im thinkin bout leaving it off>>>>thanx 4 this info
gmc 2500 4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2016, 11:52 AM   #49
MIKE77z
Registered User
 
MIKE77z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Ottawa Ontario
Posts: 33
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

Again old threads save patts. Looking around for thr new bushing stumbled me on to this thread . Bracket is stay in the boxes ramjet 350 700r4 205 in a 69 blazer .
MIKE77z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2016, 01:59 AM   #50
El Dorado Jim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: El Dorado Ca
Posts: 1,686
Re: Tranny / tcase problem

great info. thanks for bringing up this old thread, I think my son's truck has the brace on it, It will be removed tomorrow!
El Dorado Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com