700R4 lock-up or non lock up? what do i have?

[chev-obsession]

Hey guys, i bought this 700R4 trans from summit racing, back in august. When i was purchasing it, i thought i was ordering a non-lock up trans, so i ordered the non lock up converter about a month ago. For some reason i double checked it and im thinking it is a Lock-up style trans, mainly because it came with a little wiring harness.

I will post pics of the trans, but is there anyway that ifthe trans that i have is a lock up trans, will i be able to use the non lock up converter? Or am i putting the non-lock up converter on craigslist since i all ready filled it with fluid?

[lindstromjd]

Every 700r4 is a lockup transmission.

[chev-obsession]

Originally Posted by lindstromjd

Every 700r4 is a lockup transmission.

as far as i know, there were two different types of 700R4's, a "lock up" that came in later cars and trucks and a "non-lock up" that came in the earlier cars and trucks

[ProStreet68SB]

Can I ask why you would want a non-lockup 700r4?

[bighaas79]

I think you are thinking of ELECTRONIC. earlier were non electronic, and the newer were electronic. All had lockup converters.

[benoit454]

aftermarket has NON lockup, as far as I know all stock 700r4 are lockup as mentioned.

That is the ONLy time I ever say non locvkup was aftermarket option from like summit and such, and they have non lockup 700's as far as I know too but ONLY aftermarket modified units.

[lindstromjd]

Originally Posted by benoit454

aftermarket has NON lockup, as far as I know all stock 700r4 are lockup as mentioned.

That is the ONLy time I ever say non locvkup was aftermarket option from like summit and such, and they have non lockup 700's as far as I know too but ONLY aftermarket modified units.

I stand corrected. I didn't know there was an after market option of a non-lockup.

With that discussion out of the way, then the 700r4 up top has to be a lockup type because it has the electronic plug in the side for the lockup wiring.

[storm9c1]

Sounds like you need to call Summit and ask them which trans you really got. By looks of the input shaft, it appears to have a lockup nose. Also ask them if you can use the torque converter you have. Is it possible that the torque converter will work fine and just ignore the lockup request? I guess it will depend on the internals of the converter. The lockup nose may slip right on by or it may jam on something and you don't want that. It might be a matter of running what you got (never putting it in lockup mode with the wire input).

[benoit454]

I agree with both, the trans IS a lockup, why would it not be lockup when it has the plugin on the side, the TC might work but I would call up their tech support and ask them.

[chev-obsession]

ok ill have to call the tech line tommorow.

[clinebarger]

The check ball & cage are still in the input shaft, Part of the non-lockup mod is removing the the check ball

[benoit454]

awesome so you can convert a lock up to a non lock up that's good info to know.

[made2drag]

nice. I have a 86 700r4 that seems to have a bad 4th since it doesn't ever shift from 3rd to 4th. I think the last guy might have messed it up some how. I read that 4th can go after a rebuild or if someone doesn't have their TV cable right.

If I run the 700r4 in "D" instead of "OD", will it let me get by without having the lockup cable hooked up? I have heard that 85 and up will not burn up, if you run without lock up, but I wish I knew for sure. I like it how it is and it drives like a turbo 350, but I am wondering about excessive heat and wonder if that excessive heat is only when TC spins in 4th? My solenoid only clicked once and is probably bad, which is another reason im fine with no 4th.

[YoungPup1977]

Originally Posted by made2drag

nice. I have a 86 700r4 that seems to have a bad 4th since it doesn't ever shift from 3rd to 4th. I think the last guy might have messed it up some how. I read that 4th can go after a rebuild or if someone doesn't have their TV cable right.

If I run the 700r4 in "D" instead of "OD", will it let me get by without having the lockup cable hooked up? I have heard that 85 and up will not burn up, if you run without lock up, but I wish I knew for sure. I like it how it is and it drives like a turbo 350, but I am wondering about excessive heat and wonder if that excessive heat is only when TC spins in 4th? My solenoid only clicked once and is probably bad, which is another reason im fine with no 4th.

Ok seems like we have several of these posts.....
How would you know for sure you have a bad 4th gear in a 700R4 ?
How is the 1-2 shift ? what mph does it shift into 2nd, how is the 2-3 shift ? at what mph does it shift into 3rd ?
if you run the vehicle in OD position, when you achieve the speed required for the trans to be in 4th, what happens ? neutral condition ? rpms rev ? or the vehicle still pulls but the rpm slowly increased as speed is increased ?
So what exactly is applied in 4th gear in a 700R4 ? the 3/4 clutches are applied, forward clutch is applied, and the 2/4 servo is applied in 4th which applies the 2/4 band onto the reverse input drum....
if you have 3rd, than the 3/4 clutches must be ok enough to achieve 3rd gear.
may have a stuck 3rd accumulator check ball which is located in the 2/4 servo area....or the 2/4 servo is faulty, if the 2/4 "band" was bad you would not have 2nd gear....thats why I asked previously about the 1-2 shift...

Don't want to fix this issue but hi-jacks 4 other older than dirt threads to get attention to this issue.....makes no sense to me, but again, I am only here to help people who need help...common sense tells me if you dont have 4th, there is a problem and driving it in 3rd wont help matters either....but I want a T350!!!

If you manually shift it from low to 2nd does it actually go into 2nd ?

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

Ok seems like we have several of these posts.....
How would you know for sure you have a bad 4th gear in a 700R4 ?
How is the 1-2 shift ? what mph does it shift into 2nd, how is the 2-3 shift ? at what mph does it shift into 3rd ?
if you run the vehicle in OD position, when you achieve the speed required for the trans to be in 4th, what happens ? neutral condition ? rpms rev ? or the vehicle still pulls but the rpm slowly increased as speed is increased ?
So what exactly is applied in 4th gear in a 700R4 ? the 3/4 clutches are applied, forward clutch is applied, and the 2/4 servo is applied in 4th which applies the 2/4 band onto the reverse input drum....
if you have 3rd, than the 3/4 clutches must be ok enough to achieve 3rd gear.
may have a stuck 3rd accumulator check ball which is located in the 2/4 servo area....or the 2/4 servo is faulty, if the 2/4 "band" was bad you would not have 2nd gear....thats why I asked previously about the 1-2 shift...

If you manually shift it from low to 2nd does it actually go into 2nd ?

Yup, posted in different threads because different subscribed people see will comment. I like lots of opinions. Wisdom comes from guys like you who know their stuff. It shifts to 2nd at 20, shift to 3rd is at normal range (about like all my 700r4's ive driven), never shifts to 4th. My speedo doesn't work, because the new cable I bought slid in the bullet but seems too small a diameter of wire. No slippage in 1,2,3, just seems like a th350 and 3rd keeps pulling and rpms goes up like a normal 3rd. I keep reading after a rebuild on these, 4th takes awhile to come back? Ive read drive to 20 mph, turn key off, crank in neutral, then shift into "OD" and it sometimes exercises the shift mechanisms. Ive read to drive it and it comes back, etc. I think I may just drive in "D" and install a tach and try to stay under 60 mph. This will be driven 60 mph or less since I do no interstate driving.

I'll check my gov. cover and maybe tap on it. I might do the neutral thing then drive. I might have a stuck or bad solenoid, but that doesn't matter at this point.

[made2drag]

Its a late 86 700r4 with 87-like serial code. 6ykm-y-00258537 .I gave the solenoid 12v at pin "A" and chassis ground at pin "D" and it clicked once and never again. I didn't pull the pan to trace the wires to the connector but spent an hour scouring threads and everyone was using A and D. So I either burnt it up or its stuck in activated position. I don't think it gave me a click click, just click.

[YoungPup1977]

Originally Posted by made2drag

Its a late 86 700r4 with 87-like serial code. 6ykm-y-00258537 .I gave the solenoid 12v at pin "A" and chassis ground at pin "D" and it clicked once and never again. I didn't pull the pan to trace the wires to the connector but spent an hour scouring threads and everyone was using A and D. So I either burnt it up or its stuck in activated position. I don't think it gave me a click click, just click.

Sounds like you do not have 4th or TCC engagement....correct ? Is your TCC solenoid wired thru a "NC" switch to the 4th gear oil circuit ?

Are you going to drive it this way and get by or are you trying to fix it ?

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

Sounds like you do not have 4th or TCC engagement....correct ? Is your TCC solenoid wired thru a "NC" switch to the 4th gear oil circuit ?

Are you going to drive it this way and get by or are you trying to fix it ?

Normally open mounted toggle on dash. I haven't opened my pan if youre asking about internal wiring. I'm guessing my 4th is gone due to the last guy somehow. He said he bought the k5 with engine and trans already in it. He said the motor wouldn't start because the TC was jammed or something. He went to Oriellys and bought a stock TC and put it in and now it drives. It is definitely new. It's blue and looks like it was just installed. I went to Oreillys and had them pull up every 700r4 TC they have on the computer and it only showed a $79 one and $129 for a higher stall TC. They don't sell non lock up converters so I guess this one has a clutch. On the test drive, he was in the passenger seat and I told him I wanted to make sure it didn't slip. I gave it a good test and no slippage. I asked him why is it only shifting from 1-2 and 2-3...where's 4th? He says I wont have 4th until I install a "switch". Now I know that's a lie. It makes me wonder if someone didn't want to fool with the lockup and decided to modify something so 4th wont engage, then drive it in 3rd and not worry about it burning up.

[YoungPup1977]

If you are willing to take the pan off you may find your problem, but it sounds like you are OK driving it the way it is....GOOD LUCK !!!!

[YoungPup1977]

Originally Posted by made2drag

Yup, posted in different threads because different subscribed people see will comment. I like lots of opinions. Wisdom comes from guys like you who know their stuff. It shifts to 2nd at 20, shift to 3rd is at normal range (about like all my 700r4's ive driven), never shifts to 4th. My speedo doesn't work, because the new cable I bought slid in the bullet but seems too small a diameter of wire. No slippage in 1,2,3, just seems like a th350 and 3rd keeps pulling and rpms goes up like a normal 3rd. I keep reading after a rebuild on these, 4th takes awhile to come back? Ive read drive to 20 mph, turn key off, crank in neutral, then shift into "OD" and it sometimes exercises the shift mechanisms. Ive read to drive it and it comes back, etc. I think I may just drive in "D" and install a tach and try to stay under 60 mph. This will be driven 60 mph or less since I do no interstate driving.

I'll check my gov. cover and maybe tap on it. I might do the neutral thing then drive. I might have a stuck or bad solenoid, but that doesn't matter at this point.

Just wanted to comment on the sentence you used " I keep reading after a rebuild on these, 4th takes awhile to come back? Ive read drive to 20 mph, turn key off, crank in neutral, then shift into "OD" and it sometimes exercises the shift mechanisms. Ive read to drive it and it comes back, etc."

Where did you read this ?

[truckdude239]

Originally Posted by made2drag

Yup, posted in different threads because different subscribed people see will comment. I like lots of opinions. .

THIS IS NOT accpectble start a new post many of these posts are form 2005 and members may not be active anymore


XIV. Multiple Posting - It is simply not acceptable to post your question more than once, or to post it in more than one forum. Choose the forum that your question or post best fits in, and place it there and only there. If, after posting, you feel it should be in another forum, private message the forum Moderator and ask if they would move it for you.

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by truckdude239

THIS IS NOT accpectble start a new post many of these posts are form 2005 and members may not be active anymore


XIV. Multiple Posting - It is simply not acceptable to post your question more than once, or to post it in more than one forum. Choose the forum that your question or post best fits in, and place it there and only there. If, after posting, you feel it should be in another forum, private message the forum Moderator and ask if they would move it for you.

Ummm. If the same eyes saw the same question, I could see redundancy being a problem. It might help somebody somewhere, like it’s helping me.

[made2drag]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

Just wanted to comment on the sentence you used " I keep reading after a rebuild on these, 4th takes awhile to come back? Ive read drive to 20 mph, turn key off, crank in neutral, then shift into "OD" and it sometimes exercises the shift mechanisms. Ive read to drive it and it comes back, etc."

Where did you read this ?

The hamb, jalopy journal and the third gen Camaro site. I’ve searched everywhere.

[YoungPup1977]

I suggest maybe more reading may assist you in figuring out your issue. I never heard of 4th coming back...either you have 4th or you don’t. Could be a number of things, like I said in a earlier post. Drop the pan and check. Check the gov.... maybe 3/4 shift valve is stuck, is why you don’t have 4th. A “switch” for 4th gear ? Maybe previous owner left out the pressure switch for 4th gear oil circuit which some folks wire the TCC solenoid to. They do this so when 4th gear is achieved the TCC engages. Just something to ponder.... again drop the pan and let us know. Good Luck !!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[truckdude239]

Originally Posted by made2drag

Ummm. If the same eyes saw the same question, I could see redundancy being a problem. I don’t care how dead this thread is, it might help somebody somewhere, like it’s helping me.

Rules are rules you agreed to follow them when you signed up please follow them thats all i am going to say.