4sp manual - can I make it better?

[ksshane]

I have a 4sp manual transmission, and I keep thinking about swapping to an automatic, but Im worried Ill kick myself once I do. I just enjoy driving manual transmission more, and the kid in me reverts back to my first car when I drive my truck.

But here is my problem. The gearing is horrible. I have to start in 2nd gear and Im moving into 3rd within 20 feet, and into 4th gear by the time I hit 30 miles an hour.

Obviously switching the gears in the rear will help with this..... But the thing is. Even when Im at a complete stop I cannot get the truck into 1st gear. So there is something going on.

I dont see any talk about rebuilding these transmissions on the board. Is it even worth it? Is there another manual transmission that is a direct bolt in?
If I do go through the trouble of having this transmission rebuilt is there anything else I should do while I have it out to make it a smoother transmission? For example should I install some sort of updated clutch plate?

What gears should I put in the rear end? Ill be doing mostly city driving and some highway.

Eventually the truck will be a cruiser. Something for me and my son to enjoy (well we already do that... he is constantly asking me what we are going to do next to the truck).

I appreciate all of your feedback.

[Lattimer]

If you do some searching on here, there are several who have swapped to 5-speed manuals out of newer trucks. It takes a bit of fab work and some creative parts sourcing to make it work.

Others (like myself) have swapped in a car 4 speed. A Muncie or Saginaw 4-speed can be pretty easily installed with the stock bell housing and clutch. I personally put in a Saginaw (because it was free) and it dropped in place of the stock 3-speed with almost zero modifications.

The best of the best (at least in my mind) would be a Tremec 5 or 6 speed. They require deep pockets and significant fab as well.

With your trans, I believe almost anything you do will require a new or modified driveshaft.

Regardless of what you do, definitely replace the clutch, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing with new performance parts. Replace or machine the flywheel.


Do some searches on the forum for "trans swap", "Muncie", and "Tremec" and read the threads. Lots of good stuff.

Personally, I intend on going the Tremec route sometime in the future. Probably 10 minutes after I break my current transmission.

[ksshane]

Sooooo.. your saying its better to put in another 4 speed (or something completly different) then to mess with the stock 4 speed that came in these trucks?

[DreamRyder1963]

For what you are describing it sounds like you have the four speed that is common with our trucks which is basically a three speed with a granny first gear. That would explain why you have to start out in 2nd. The first gear is only really designed for starting while hauling heavy loads. Your issue with it not going into first is likely an adjustment problem with your clutch linkage. My old C20 (which had the bulldog four speed) would need this once in a while. If you want a better four speed for cruising I would go with the car four speed. It should be much easier a project.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device

[hounddogs!]

What's the end use of the truck? I haul firewood several times per year, so I still wanted the granny SM465 gearbox. I got a second transmission off the board here for $50, then spent another couple of hundred for synchros/bearings/seals from http://www.drivetrain.com/ . Fresh synchros do wonders and no fabrication is needed.

[nds1968]

Are you referring to the SM420 https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/...m420_parts.htm A lot of 4X4 guys like this 4 speed. My truck has the SM420 and I am in the same dilemma.

[ksshane]

Oh... Okay. Now Im understanding why there isnt much information on our stock 4 speeds, and why everyone is swapping them out.

Yes mine is defiantly the stock tranny with the granny first gear then.

Hounddogs... mine is just for cruising/sunday drive type of stuff. I rarely haul anything in it. Maybe the 4 wheeler or the riding lawn mower if my father in law needs it. I didnt buy it for a work horse.

[DreamRyder1963]

If you are really just using it for cruising, then you will enjoy the high gears in a car four speed.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by ksshane

Sooooo.. your saying its better to put in another 4 speed (or something completly different) then to mess with the stock 4 speed that came in these trucks?

The original granny low 4-speeds are good for a work truck, heavy hauling and pulling. When in good shape they are strong and that super low first gear is great for starting out big loads, pulling boats up ramps, etc. In a 4x4 they are great for slow crawling, snow plowing, etc.

If you want to cruise and just drive and have fun with the truck, that is not the trans I would want. As was mentioned, it all depends on what you want from your truck.

I installed a Saginaw 4-speed reportedly from an early 70's Camaro. It has the 3.50:1 first gear, and the truck has 3.73's in the rear, so 1st is not too low and not too high. My only real issue is I would like to have an overdrive for highway driving.

All the 4-speeds have a 1:1 high gear, same as what you have now. So without an overdrive, your cruising RPM won't change.

[ksshane]

Ill keep a look out for one. Thanks DreamRyder. Really appreciate the feedback

[PanelDeland]

I'm going to agree with the 5 speed swap.It will give you OD for better hiway cruising,smoother shifting,and may keep you from needing to swap rearend gears as quickly.It's a bit more involved but there's no sense in doing a car 4 speed and then wanting even more and doing it over.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by ksshane

Ill keep a look out for one. Thanks DreamRyder. Really appreciate the feedback

if you can find one for a reasonable cost, the Muncie 4-speeds are very desirable. I see them on Craigslist once in a while but they are pricey. $800 and up for basically a rebuildable core.

If you are not trying to make a ton of power, Saginaw 4-speeds are pretty cheap. Much over 300 hp and I wouldn't expect it to hold up all that long.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

I'm going to agree with the 5 speed swap.It will give you OD for better hiway cruising,smoother shifting,and may keep you from needing to swap rearend gears as quickly.It's a bit more involved but there's no sense in doing a car 4 speed and then wanting even more and doing it over.

True. I decided to do mine in stages because:
1. My stock 3 speed was very near death. you could get it into 1st if you knew the trick, and it would pop out of 3rd if you didn't hold the shifter all the time.
2. I already had a free car 4-speed
3. The Saginaw 4-speed was a direct swap for the Saginaw 3-speed with zero mods.


If I had to buy a trans, I would have looked for a 5-speed or bit the bullet on the Tremec.

[WIDESIDE72]

NV4500 5 spd It has overdrive. Great trans. I had one in a 93 K2500. It will take a little to swap into your truck. It uses a hydraulic clutch and i think you have to stick with that, cant adapt it to your manual clutch. Search the forum for "NV4500 swap" if interested.
Posted via Mobile Device

[C/10 King]

Would changing the gears in the rear end help? (at least a little bit?) I'm in the same situation with one of my trucks, runs great but geared too low.

[faribran]

i must agree with these guys, if you can swing the manual with overdrive... thatz the way to go.

[LockDoc]

I don't know what engine you have but if you drive easy and all you haul is an occasional riding mower, I just posted this info in another thread:

With the 4.10 gears and the 4 speed it would be a good candidate for a 5 speed OD trans swap. I used an S-10 5 speed in my '67 and it was pretty straight forward. Didn't have to mess with any of the clutch linkage. The only things I had to do was replace the clutch disk with one out of an '85 Astro Van, get a 1/2" adapter plate, ( http://hamiltonintakes.com/products/...5-swap-adapter ), cut the shifter hole in a different spot, and shorten the drive shaft. Works like a champ.

LockDoc

[twisty]

Originally Posted by WIDESIDE72

NV4500 5 spd It has overdrive. Great trans. I had one in a 93 K2500. It will take a little to swap into your truck. It uses a hydraulic clutch and i think you have to stick with that, cant adapt it to your manual clutch. Search the forum for "NV4500 swap" if interested.
Posted via Mobile Device

why the nv4500 over the nv3500? is it that much better, or is it just more heavy duty? i have the nv3500 in my 01 ram 1500, its a great trans so far. going on 235k miles, 3rd clutch just went in (put one in a couple months after i bought it at 84k)

[WIDESIDE72]

Personally if I was going to the trouble I would swap in the heavier duty NV4500. The NV3500 would be Ok as well but only has a 300ft lb torque rating vs 460 ft lb for the NV4500. It would come down to be honest with yourself as far as how much power you are making now (and in the future) and how much the price difference is for both trans.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jus2qwk]

I currently have a Richmond 6 speed in mine and love it, also had a Muncie in my truck as well. Both are a direct bolt up to the stock bell housing the only thing I had to to was change the hole for the shifter a little bit. I also like to use the automatic cross member because I don't really like all that weight just hanging off the bell housing and it just makes everything so much easier to get to like changing the oil filter or starter with headers is so much easier. plus the 6 speed is a lot heavier than the Muncie, just seems like it supports it a lot better.

we also have a dump truck with the bull dog 4 speed and my dads gmc has a Saginaw so I've driven them all haha

[C_Ruiz]

I had that bulldog 4 speed but swapped it for a Muncie 4 speed then swapped for a 700R4 with OD. I am actually in the process of selling my 350/700R4 combo to purchase an LSX motor and trans.
If I were you and had the option...I'd go 6 speed. Just my 2 cents.
Posted via Mobile Device

[beetle1960]

Originally Posted by C/10 King

Would changing the gears in the rear end help? (at least a little bit?) I'm in the same situation with one of my trucks, runs great but geared too low.

Yes it would, if you have 3:73's... put 3:08 in the rear..that will bring your rpm's down. I did that with my stock 3 speed saginaw and I am happy; for now.
Posted via Mobile Device

[joeysz06]

Cheapest way bra pull a four speed out of a later model s10.
Posted via Mobile Device

[WIDESIDE72]

Here is another option

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=594573
Posted via Mobile Device

[slow-1]

A buddy of mine put a Saginaw 4 speed out of a Chevette (or Vega...was a long time ago) in his Nova that he estimated at 500 hp plus 100hp nitrous shot...held up longer that lots of other things in the car.