350 4-bolt block and 186 Camel Hump Heads

[IvelDesigns]

Next fall I plan to start building the engine for my truck. I have a 4 bolt 350 from a 76 van, and a set of 186 camel hump 1.94 heads that have all passed crack check. the heads are the small chamber heads. My budget will be in the $2-$3k range.

This will be my daily driver during good weather(no snow). I'm not overly concerned about gas mileage since i have an econo car as a backup. I also would love for this engine to put my truck in the 11's, or even 10's if possible.

I'd like to see 425hp or more.

Now comes the question. What should i build?

Should I go the 383 route? Should i sell off the parts i have and get a big block? Should i look at some different heads?

[cableguy0]

11's are way out of the 2-3k range and those heads are far from capable. my advice is to dump the stock heads and go with something aftermarket. its cheaper in the long run. by the time you get those heads machined for bigger valves new seats ported screw in studs etc. your over the price of a brand new set of dart iron eagles which will run circles around those heads out of the box.you can also look at the aluminum heads from dart edelbrock afr brodix etc. theres a ton of choices. 425hp wont put you in the 11's 12's maybe but definately not 11's in a heavy truck.

[cdowns]

11's or 10's you'd be alot better off with a big block// world crate engines about 650 hp are less than 15thousand around 20 if you want to go all aluminum that should get you close// and you should still be able to get 4 or 5 mpg

[bigjimzlll]

To get into the 11's you need over 500HP...to get into the 10's over 600HP.
425HP from a 350 is doable...even with 186 heads, but you would have close to 1,000.00 into the heads to get there.

Also is stock form the chassis will not support 10's very well. You would also need a roll cage,after market axels and the appropiate safety equipment.

[larry may]

And lots more money than 2-3 gs

[IvelDesigns]

ok, so it looks like i need to readjust my "also would love for this engine to put my truck in the 11's, or even 10's if possible." statement

let's say this then "also would love for this engine to put my truck in the 12's, or even 11's if possible."

so what would you guys do if you had these parts and $3k laying around?

i'm not an engine builder, so what i'm lookin for is a list of parts that you would assemble, or have assembled, to meet, or slightly exceed these requirements.

[cst70rocket]

OK, here's my take on this. Put the 186 heads no ebay, they regularly sell for upwards of $5-600 to the '69 camaro guys. Then use that money, but a set of iron eagles. Then build the 383 you mentioned. It will get you in the 12s but barely. Typical 383 builds are 475hp range, then add a 150 shot of blue bottle and bam, high to mid 11s. Been there done that. A big block would be easier, but hard for that budget.

[CJM72CHEVY]

I agree with the others. Even a stock Vortec head has more potential than those "antique" castings, and they can be purchased brand-new for considerably less than it will take to put a set of worn-out castings back into fighting trim. That said, I don't really know how anyone can accurately predict what sort of number you'll be able to run without knowing the complete package you're putting together. Obviously a complete truck with all the stock parts present and accounted for is going to take considerably more horsepower and work to to get to run a good number than one that's been radically lightened and set up specifically set up for racing. Removing weight is like adding horsepower, after all. Even stock trucks can differ a lot in that regard - SWB vs. LWB, rear suspension type, gears, transmission type and model, options and accessories, etc. Even the track and the weather makes a big difference. A high-10s ride at one track might be a low-11s ride at another, and vice versa. You'll never know for sure what you've got until you make a pass, and even that will only be the beginning. No good drag racer has ever turned a number and said "that's it, there's no more to be had". Dragstrips are littered with lost tenths, you just can't see them, lol.

[neonlarry]

My personal opinion is for that money you better add at least a second to your wishes (13's maybe 12's) and add some more dollars. Just heads, 383 rotating assembly and machine work will eat up that 3K. Then you still have to add valve train, intake and exhaust. And thats just the engine. Next comes the stall converter, trans and posi.

[67/72junkie]

If you are going to drive it on the street,get you a 400 small block &you can make a very streetable 400 hp with the 186s for 3grand.I have this package and the torque of the 400 is what will matter in a heavy truck.

[bloertcher]

I'm going to offer you my opinion/advice,I've built well over 100 engines along the way and at least 99 of them were on tight budgets.
A 400 would be ideal,but these days a usable 400 block will eat a good chunk out of your budget before it's even clean.So,a 383 it is.Powerhouse sells a multitude of balanced 383 rotating assemblies,I'd reccomend a setup with flattop Hyperutectic pistons,and a cast crank.This stuff will live happily to the hp levels you desire,and will survive an OCCASIONAL 100-125hp shot of nos.

I'm with the majority on the heads,186's were great in their day,but you'll have more in them after machine work than it will be worth.If you can provide documentation of the crack test,they will bring good coin on ebay.Even a set of World S/R's would be better,or the Pro Comp heads,offered at Enginekits.com,would be affordable head choices,go with a 64cc chamber.

I'd go with the Comp Xtreme Energy 274H cam.It's very healthy,yet streetable.Top it off with some decent roller rockers.

Budget being an issue,I'd go with a Proffesional Products,I believe Cyclone is the name on an intake.It's a cheaper version of an Edelbrock Performer RPM,if your willing to clean up a little casting flash and port match it,they work very well.

This should come close to coming in at your budget,after boring,etc.Granted,you'll still need a carb and headers,you should be able to get by with an HEI in this engines RPM range.But I'm confident that this combo will deliver 425+ HP,quarter mile times will depend heavily on the rest of your setup.Also keep in mind,this will be a 93 octane engine,and you'll need to tune the piss out of it to use that!

[Rick Mills]

I agree with the others. Even getting into the 12's may be tuff.
Track time takes an overall - well thought out plan. Engine hp is only one aspect. Hp is what is needed at the end of the track - torque is what's needed to get it off the line.
This is my (ball park) rule of thumb and is certainly subjective:
14 seconds - $3k
12 seconds - $5k
11 seconds - $7k
10 seconds - $10k

The faster you want to go, the more it costs. Pretty soon each second gained more than doubles the cost.
Also, every time horse power & torque are increased, they will attack the weakest link in your overall drive train... everything down to the wheel studs.

[IvelDesigns]

bloertcher-

thanks. that is exactly the type of feedback i was looking for.

[82c10]

if you want to go quick for cheap, don't build a truck, that's my 2 cents

[IvelDesigns]

don't build a truck?? i'll return you 2 cents for that one...

[CJM72CHEVY]

He kind of has a point. There's guys getting Cummins diesel pickups in the 10s, 9s and I believe one or two even in the high 8s, but it takes a lot of time, tuning, testing and dollars to get there. Saw one guy in Diesel Power with a Cummins-powered Ford that puts 945 hp to the rear tires. Takes a stupid amount of torque to make that kind of horsepower at the engine speeds those things normally see. In most cases, the absolutes that modern diesel engines see just make most high-performance gas engines look silly. See a big, nasty twin-turbo SBC getting 15-20 lbs of boost? Big deal, stock turbodiesels can see 30+ with easy, and the big-boys in tractor pulling have used anywhere from 1 to 4 turbos to make up to 200 lbs of boost for decades. Yeah - 200 lbs or pressure in the hole BEFORE the intake valve closes and the piston heads up the cylinder. 12.5:1 compression? That's nothing - many stock diesels run 17.5:1 and higher. The fancy-schmancy programmable fuel-injection that's relatively new to hot-rodding? Been showing up on stock diesels with full-authority electronics and drive-by-wire throttles for well over a decade. Modern high-pressure common-rail diesels can see injection pressures of 25,000 psi+. Anyone considered building a big, nasty Cummins or Duramax and shoehorning it into a '67-'72 for a race truck?

[IvelDesigns]

i'm not really concerned about time on the track. just throwing numbers out there. I'm just looking to build a good amount of power.

[GWEE]

just build a 383 with that block and by some dart 215cc heads.
if you need help just ask....

[GWEE]

this it what im building this comming winter.

383/450plus hp

4bolt 350 block
Rotating Assemblies: SCAT cast 9000 Crank 3.750" Stroke, 2 PC Rear Seal, 350 Mains, 6.0" 4340 I Beam Rod, Hypereutectic Pistons Flattop 4.030. Internally Balanced w/rings & Bearings
roller camlifters (not sure what size yet)
Dart Pro 1 Aluminum Cylinder Heads (fully port and polish w/2.05 valves)
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap
Carburetor: Holley 750cfm
the heads and intake will be port matched and flow tested. and will have several passes on the dyno to fine tune it. maybe even change a few parts.

so this gives an idea, we're thinking.it should get me it the low 12's with Suspension work and the right gears. now all this will set you back price wise but man it will be fun to drive........

[IvelDesigns]

Originally Posted by GWEE

this it what im building this comming winter.

383/450plus hp

4bolt 350 block
Rotating Assemblies: SCAT cast 9000 Crank 3.750" Stroke, 2 PC Rear Seal, 350 Mains, 6.0" 4340 I Beam Rod, Hypereutectic Pistons Flattop 4.030. Internally Balanced w/rings & Bearings
roller camlifters (not sure what size yet)
Dart Pro 1 Aluminum Cylinder Heads (fully port and polish w/2.05 valves)
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap
Carburetor: Holley 750cfm
the heads and intake will be port matched and flow tested. and will have several passes on the dyno to fine tune it. maybe even change a few parts.

so this gives an idea, we're thinking.it should get me it the low 12's with Suspension work and the right gears. now all this will set you back price wise but man it will be fun to drive........

what kind of budget are you planning for that?

[68c10owner]

My buddy built a 327 for his old 62 chevy truck and it ran low 13`s. It was pretty basic but you could run better with a bigger motor. I would say build at least a 383 for the extra torque to get your heavy truck moving. iIlike the 186 heads but I have to agree with most that you would be better off with some aftermarket heads. Patriot sells a complete set of aluminum heads set up for a .575 lift cam for $795. you`ll have almost double in that into the 186 heads and they probably won`t flow as good even with a port job.

I would shoot for about 9.5-10:1 compresion and maybe a solid roller in the 230-240 range and you would have a pretty good running motor. Should run mid 12`s in these heavy trucks.

[71Chevy4-speed]

Heres a 383 combo I built for a drawing motor while I was in tech school. I have the dyno sheet if you would like to see the graph but I will have to scan it when I get home Tuesday.

383 sbc

10.76:1 - Sounds high with Iron heads but block had been decked to 9.000 from the stock 9.025 - .040 piston deck height was used. Combining the tight quench area and great combustion chamber or the vortec heads allows pump gas to be run due the swirl effects. Sounds like b.s. but the kid that won it stuck it in his 70's camaro and ran it on the street... well for 2 days. Burned his tranny up

5.7 powdered metal rods
Gm crate motor rods with arp bolts - strong rods weak stock bolts.

RHS vortec heads. 1.94, 1.50's
Cleaned up casting right underneath the valves - No pocket porting or even port matchings. Sug www.competitionproducts.com $630 assembled for the set, the even offer a 2.02, 1.60 set that flow 27 cfm more than stockers called the Protorkers. Same price.

Isky Megacam 292
.505 in/ .505 ex lift
244 @ .050 duration

Comp Magnum Roller rockers 1.5's - Sug. Aluminum = cheaper

Professional Products intake - Edelbrock Performer RPM copy - more casting flash as mentioned above.

Stock HEI with Accel Module.

Holley 750 hp series

1 5/8" primary 3" collector and dynomax bullet mufflers.

356HP and 366 ft-lbs to the wheels of one of our school t-buckets.
Figuring 20% drivetrain loss ( probably more ) but just to give some lee-way for error. Thats corrected to 445hp and over 450 ft-lbs @ the flywheel.

[GWEE]

Originally Posted by IvelDesigns

what kind of budget are you planning for that?

i guess around $5000.00 just for parts, the porting of the heads and intake will cost extra. the heads and intake will be flowbench tested and the engine dynoed. the thing is that i will use varity of parts such as cam/lifters intakes to get the most hp.

[CJM72CHEVY]

Originally Posted by IvelDesigns

i'm not really concerned about time on the track. just throwing numbers out there. I'm just looking to build a good amount of power.

The main thing is to decided what you want the truck to do best and what you will be using it for most of the time and build it from there. The kind of modifications needed to make it quick on the track within a limited budget could make it not-so-fun to drive on the street, and a good street engine build isn't going to make it a rocket ship on the track. As has been said several times, TORQUE is what gets a vehicle moving, particularly a heavy, unaerodynamic vehicle like an older fullsize pickup. Generally speaking, 500 lb.-ft. at 3000 rpm will get you away from a stoplight faster than 500 horsepower at 6000 rpm any day of the week.