Dropmember Competition ?? Have you guys seen this yet?

[rotgg]

i have no affiliation with either of these products they both look like great products to me for someone with no fab skills to get there trucks on the ground

the point i have been making is that neither of these products are anything new at all in the industry neither are "innovative" just a variation or small tweaks to products that all ready exist

also if you have no patents on your products how do you expect them not to be copied everyone on this board seems to be upset with SD for no reason if the drop member nathan "invented" was worthy of a patent and he didn't take the time to go through the patent process who's to blame for that i guess SD is

there are about ten guys on here with a man crush on nathan for some reason i don't really under stand every time anyone makes a post about doing a Z or lowering a truck here they come "you should get the drop member"

again i have nothing but respect for all the board members and i think nathan does great work

[smashingchuck]

When I bagged my truck you couldn't even get parts to do it. I had to make everything...

[fastbagged68]

It was bound to happen.
I wish these were around when I built my suburban, instead of me spending countless hours figuring out how to mount my rack, drop the crossmember, build control arms. Which all the stuff I did I don't like....

[smashingchuck]

Originally Posted by fastbagged68

It was bound to happen.
I wish these were around when I built my suburban, instead of me spending countless hours figuring out how to mount my rack, drop the crossmember, build control arms. Which all the stuff I did I don't like....

that's the stuff I'm talking about. you guys are spoiled now!

[Pipeworx]

Originally Posted by rotgg

i have no affiliation with either of these products they both look like great products to me for someone with no fab skills to get there trucks on the ground

the point i have been making is that neither of these products are anything new at all in the industry neither are "innovative" just a variation or small tweaks to products that all ready exist

also if you have no patents on your products how do you expect them not to be copied everyone on this board seems to be upset with SD for no reason if the drop member nathan "invented" was worthy of a patent and he didn't take the time to go through the patent process who's to blame for that i guess SD is

there are about ten guys on here with a man crush on nathan for some reason i don't really under stand every time anyone makes a post about doing a Z or lowering a truck here they come "you should get the drop member"

again i have nothing but respect for all the board members and i think nathan does great work

Have you or anyone you know ever tried to get a patent? Do you know what it takes? You do not just go down to the patent office and say "doo ta doo..... I'm here to get my patent." I have a friend who has a patent in the process on an idea that will change apartment living nation wide, it is even backed by NASA. Everyone who has signed a no compete clause and seen the idea is blown away.... and it will cost under $50.... and it will probably be mandatory to have one in an apartment at Christmas. Even though it is so great, everyone is backing it and there is nothing else like it, he has been in the process of getting the patent for over 2 years and has in excess of $100,000 spent.

Go here and see how they write the patent for a simple disc brake caliper.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...disc+brakes%22

This is not written by the patent office but by the person seeking the patent.... can you say lawyer. If when you seek to get the patent and all your ducks are not in a row they deny it. Hell, my buddies patent lawyer said that they deny the first submission on everyone just because, no matter how perfect it is.

So that is just a slight inclination of what it takes to get a patent.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by rotgg

there are about ten guys on here with a man crush on nathan for some reason i don't really under stand every time anyone makes a post about doing a Z or lowering a truck here they come "you should get the drop member"

Originally Posted by fastbagged68

I wish these were around when I built my suburban, instead of me spending countless hours figuring out how to mount my rack, drop the crossmember, build control arms. Which all the stuff I did I don't like....

No man crush.... just solid information. IMO, the person that has to ask about the particulars of doing a 'Z', is perhaps not the best one to be doing the work. It's not that hard to figure out.

So rather than some young gun (or inexperienced old guy) cut his truck apart & possibly ruin it, I suggest the Dropmemember as an alternative. I know they work, I know they're easy to install, & I know they re-use most of the existing set-up. If that's not trying to help someone, I don't know what is.

[N2TRUX]

Why is everyone upset? Everyone is upset because Nathan designed a product that didn't exist for the 67-72 and 73-87's. He looked at a rapidly growing market, determined there was a need, and spent tons of hours in R&D building a front crossmember that would put our trucks on the ground with minimal modifications. The end results is a quality piece that isn't a copy or modified version of anything that existed.

While his price isn't considered cheap, it was certainly in line with the quality of the product. He brought that product to this forum along with his knowledge and allowed everyone to scrutinize, analyze, and criticize. In return he patiently answered questions, discussed design theory, and eliminated any fears that this might not be a viable solution to a problem we most of us have encountered.

Jason at SD has grown his company based on a similar philosophy. He found a need in the S-10 community and catered to that need with quality products at a fair price. Because of the similarities between these two young men's approach to their respective markets, I think most of us are shocked that Jason would copy the Dropmember.

Yes, he is very capable of designing his own bolt on suspension as he has proven in the past. Unfortunately he chose to replicate the Dropmember and call it his own design. You would expect that from a scumbag like Joe Marrow, but now from someone like Jason.

I would love for Jason to drop by and post his view on this. Jason, what do you say?

[GMBowtie79]

Originally Posted by rotgg

i have no affiliation with either of these products they both look like great products to me for someone with no fab skills to get there trucks on the ground

there are about ten guys on here with a man crush on nathan for some reason i don't really under stand every time anyone makes a post about doing a Z or lowering a truck here they come "you should get the drop member"

again i have nothing but respect for all the board members and i think nathan does great work

I think that suggesting to someone that they cut there frame is wreckless(imo). If your going to you should also make the effort to tell them to check there state vehicle codes also. Most states have strict laws that pertain to frame modifications. Alot of states also require vehicle inspections for registration. Many of the people in these forums are young and don't realize that once they do a Z or even a notch they might not be able to register there truck. Most states require any frame modifacations to be done by someone certified to do so. once you cut a frame you lose the structural integraty even if it's fish plated and boxed. a weld will break before a solid piece of steel. That is why most vehicles that have frame work done (like backhalves)are usually used for racing applications and have some sort of rollcage to increase the frames integrity. the Drop crossmember is a better way to go (imo) than a Z and will get the same results without compromising safety! That and there are some issues with insurance companys where IF you get in a accident and someone gets hurt or killed there is a chance that they will deny a claim if there is any indication that your frame mod could have been a factor. Which if it's you thats found at fault and someone is seriously hurt or killed could be devistating. This is my opinion and I presonally wouldn't want my wife and kids going down the Freeway next to someone who just finished there first Z'd frame, has limited welding experiance especially on frames and they where driving it for the first time tring to show off to there friends.

[rayray1180]

to get the record straight, this all started because of myself. if u want to down play someone it should b me. i went to suicide doors and asked to have done what is done. 1 of u said its like taking money out of nates pocket or food off his table, but the last time i checked sd is here for the same reason. we all have familys to take care of. i left my number on here to let anyone who had questions on the deal to call me and id tell them the story. the guys at sd r very stand up guys who stand behind all there work. cheap knock off, if thats what u think go buy from nate nate. i did and now u c where i am. nate on the other had called me just to find out the issues i had. i agree that he seems like a great guy. if i could have talked to nate instead of clint from kp i proably wouldnt have had sd ( IMPROVE ) the drop member. i talked to clint many time and he is one of the funniest guys ive ever bought from. so no hard feelings there. someone on here also said that sd needs to stick with the mini truck and leave the fullsize to the people who know what they r doing. wow. really they r the same thing different size. i just went and bought a 08 GMC crew cab, so look forward to seeing sd new line of parts for it as well. no matter the coast ill have them build the kit for me only because ive seen there work and they stand behind all there product. so i guess im n there fannyclub.

[GMBowtie79]

Originally Posted by Pipeworx

Have you or anyone you know ever tried to get a patent? Do you know what it takes? You do not just go down to the patent office and say "doo ta doo..... I'm here to get my patent." I have a friend who has a patent in the process on an idea that will change apartment living nation wide, it is even backed by NASA. Everyone who has signed a no compete clause and seen the idea is blown away.... and it will cost under $50.... and it will probably be mandatory to have one in an apartment at Christmas. Even though it is so great, everyone is backing it and there is nothing else like it, he has been in the process of getting the patent for over 2 years and has in excess of $100,000 spent.

Go here and see how they write the patent for a simple disc brake caliper.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...disc+brakes%22

This is not written by the patent office but by the person seeking the patent.... can you say lawyer. If when you seek to get the patent and all your ducks are not in a row they deny it. Hell, my buddies patent lawyer said that they deny the first submission on everyone just because, no matter how perfect it is.

So that is just a slight inclination of what it takes to get a patent.

This process is a very costly and time consuming venture. That is why there are so many products on the market that are labled "patent pend. or pending" they have registered there idea and are going through the process to clarify that they are the creator of said product. This protects them from people infringing on there product yet still allows them to market it.

[C3500]

Originally Posted by GMBowtie79

I think that suggesting to someone that they cut there frame is wreckless(imo). If your going to you should also make the effort to tell them to check there state vehicle codes also. Most states have strict laws that pertain to frame modifications. Alot of states also require vehicle inspections for registration. Many of the people in these forums are young and don't realize that once they do a Z or even a notch they might not be able to register there truck. Most states require any frame modifacations to be done by someone certified to do so. once you cut a frame you lose the structural integraty even if it's fish plated and boxed. a weld will break before a solid piece of steel. That is why most vehicles that have frame work done (like backhalves)are usually used for racing applications and have some sort of rollcage to increase the frames integrity. the Drop crossmember is a better way to go (imo) than a Z and will get the same results without compromising safety! That and there are some issues with insurance companys where IF you get in a accident and someone gets hurt or killed there is a chance that they will deny a claim if there is any indication that your frame mod could have been a factor. Which if it's you thats found at fault and someone is seriously hurt or killed could be devistating. This is my opinion and I presonally wouldn't want my wife and kids going down the Freeway next to someone who just finished there first Z'd frame, has limited welding experiance especially on frames and they where driving it for the first time tring to show off to there friends.

GMBowtie79 yes i agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. Yes a kid learning how to weld doing his first z is wreckless. But i had a 96 crew cab dually with a 4 ince z, 4 ince cut off the bottom of the frame to lay rocker, 13 ince notch to lay full size tires and a 2 inch sectioned front cross to keep the big block under the stock hood, this got into a very bad accident were it was ran off the road hit a ditch and was air born 4 feet and landed nose first!! the frame was boxed and plated the only thing that happen to the frame was frame horns were push up! there nothing wrong with a "Z" or back half as long as someone with the know how and the skills to do it.

[RunninLo]

Originally Posted by C3500

there nothing wrong with a "Z" or back half as long as someone with the know how and the skills to do it.

The simple reality is that maybe 1% of the people who are attempting these are actually skilled enough. I have no problem with "z" ing myself. I have completed several myself with little to no issues. I don't just think I can weld. I know I can. I have a welding engineering degree,metallurgy background, and several current AWS certifications. I have had my welds x-ray'd to pass certain certs. Yay for me right? While none of that makes me a better person or even a better fabricator it does prove requisite skill. I did all that because I was a young minitrucker with a bagged and stock floor BD Toyota that I took a look at and went " how do I know this is safe?" "Did I do a good job?". I had to admit to myself that it wasn't so I went and got the schooling and the cert's. I built my 92 CC dually for my shop parts runner. It is fully bagged and stock floor BD'd, notched and I tow with it.

Funny thing is after all that education and knowing I'm a damned fine welder instead of "z" ing my '72 it still made more sense to me to buy an off the shelf dropmember. I even had an old BTE stock x-member kit laying around. I could have pancaked mine for free and still I bought the dropmember. I guess while we're here I'll answer the "up nates butt, man crush" challenge. I have never met Nate. I have one of his products that I bought after reading about it in classic trucks and the posts here. His work, his customer service and his support of this board are all I know of him. ALL of those things have created a respect from me that very few people have before him. I save my romantic feelings for my wife and if I'm crushing on anyone it's my soon to be arriving daughter.

I'm going to do my best to make this my last post in this thread as I agree it's moot at this point.

Josh
oh I feel that for the most part in the year I have been on this board I've tried to be friendly and informative and I think most of my posts are helpful. I have made two good friendships from people I have met off of this board and I wouldn't have found my way here if it weren't for the dropmember. Just throwing that out there.

[el curioso]

my .02:

I personally don't aprove or dis what SD did(or is planning on doing)... part of my loyalty is to owning a Chevy pick up... Is what he did wrong??? thats in the eye of the beholder... they both provide very well made products... the other part of my loyalty is to my self and my wallet. I have other things to think about other than who built what, they are both made in american and that wonderfull. SD will have to sell this product way cheaper because in my opinion everyone see's them as that a company that provides a good product at an affordable price. The DM is a high end product from a high end builder. Anyone in business(sp?) has to be aware and know that the original will be imitated someday and be prepared for when it comes.


I personally see things this way:

PB= Rolex, Rolls Roys, Yacht, Diamond.

SD= Citizen, Mercedes Benz, My boat house, Cubic Zirconia.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion what ever you want to think is totally up to you!!!

LONG LIVE THE U.S.A.

[jkade]

I personally would buy the SD product if it was say $300 to $400 cheaper because I know for a fact they build good products. That being said nobody can take away the fact that Nathan designed and built the concept from the ground up and he deserves the money if they are priced competitavely, well he deserves the money weither they are or aren't but well all like to save money. If I was in the business that SD is in and I think most of you will agree or you may not say it out loud that you would do the exact same thing SD has done if it would put money in your pocket and your name in places like this and in magazines to help grow your business.

[spr85gmc]

Originally Posted by jkade

I personally would buy the SD product if it was say $300 to $400 cheaper because I know for a fact they build good products. That being said nobody can take away the fact that Nathan designed and built the concept from the ground up and he deserves the money if they are priced competitavely, well he deserves the money weither they are or aren't but well all like to save money. If I was in the business that SD is in and I think most of you will agree or you may not say it out loud that you would do the exact same thing SD has done if it would put money in your pocket and your name in places like this and in magazines to help grow your business.

well said

[69face]

you all are great! i loved the DM from day one! just like many people loved cherrios from day one and when times get rough who can hate quaker oat o's. in order to survive you need food. in order to be productive in this industry you need quality parts. I'm too frugal to buy either but i love how the DM looks on all of the trucks that Nate has done. Nate seems like a brilliant guy and I am 100% positive he will bounce right back if this gets him down and learn from any mistake. What's that old saying "steal my DM design once, shame on you, but steal my DM design twice shame on me"! I read through this whole thread and now i'm sleepy, but very entertaining.

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by rayray1180

to get the record straight, this all started because of myself. if u want to down play someone it should b me. i went to suicide doors and asked to have done what is done. 1 of u said its like taking money out of nates pocket or food off his table, but the last time i checked sd is here for the same reason. we all have familys to take care of. i left my number on here to let anyone who had questions on the deal to call me and id tell them the story. the guys at sd r very stand up guys who stand behind all there work. cheap knock off, if thats what u think go buy from nate nate. i did and now u c where i am. nate on the other had called me just to find out the issues i had. i agree that he seems like a great guy. if i could have talked to nate instead of clint from kp i proably wouldnt have had sd ( IMPROVE ) the drop member. i talked to clint many time and he is one of the funniest guys ive ever bought from. so no hard feelings there. someone on here also said that sd needs to stick with the mini truck and leave the fullsize to the people who know what they r doing. wow. really they r the same thing different size. i just went and bought a 08 GMC crew cab, so look forward to seeing sd new line of parts for it as well. no matter the coast ill have them build the kit for me only because ive seen there work and they stand behind all there product. so i guess im n there fannyclub.

I did speak to Ray to find out what "problems" he had with the DM. After our conversation, I still don't know af any "problems". He stated he felt it was too "bulky" and he had a hard time figuring out how to pull the frame-rails back together once the frame spread slightly upon removal of the factory crossmember; and he had a hard time assembling the tie-rod end portion of the kit. That was the jist of it. It would've been nice of Ray to clarify what his "problems" were here in text, instead of just stating he has had "problems" since day one.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Are you kidding me?

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

I did speak to Ray to find out what "problems" he had with the DM. After our conversation, I still don't know af any "problems". He stated he felt it was too "bulky" and he had a hard time figuring out how to pull the frame-rails back together once the frame spread slightly upon removal of the factory crossmember; and he had a hard time assembling the tie-rod end portion of the kit. That was the jist of it. It would've been nice of Ray to clarify what his "problems" were here in text, instead of just stating he has had "problems" since day one.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

I did speak to Ray to find out what "problems" he had with the DM. After our conversation, I still don't know af any "problems". He stated he felt it was too "bulky" and he had a hard time figuring out how to pull the frame-rails back together once the frame spread slightly upon removal of the factory crossmember; and he had a hard time assembling the tie-rod end portion of the kit. That was the jist of it. It would've been nice of Ray to clarify what his "problems" were here in text, instead of just stating he has had "problems" since day one.

I PM'd him for specifics but he hasn't responded. As easy as mine was to install, I just couldn't understand where he was running into issues that could not be easily overcome.

[r1lorenzini]

Originally Posted by Pipeworx

Have you or anyone you know ever tried to get a patent? Do you know what it takes? You do not just go down to the patent office and say "doo ta doo..... I'm here to get my patent." I have a friend who has a patent in the process on an idea that will change apartment living nation wide, it is even backed by NASA. Everyone who has signed a no compete clause and seen the idea is blown away.... and it will cost under $50.... and it will probably be mandatory to have one in an apartment at Christmas. Even though it is so great, everyone is backing it and there is nothing else like it, he has been in the process of getting the patent for over 2 years and has in excess of $100,000 spent.

Go here and see how they write the patent for a simple disc brake caliper.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...disc+brakes%22

This is not written by the patent office but by the person seeking the patent.... can you say lawyer. If when you seek to get the patent and all your ducks are not in a row they deny it. Hell, my buddies patent lawyer said that they deny the first submission on everyone just because, no matter how perfect it is.

So that is just a slight inclination of what it takes to get a patent.

I would like to say a patent is a tremendous amount of work for someone to go through after just having made a part like this. Easy to type and ask for but very hard to produce so lay off about the patent the point is...it is the "american way" but it sucks for a long time board memeber to apparently get screwed isnt this dead already?

[7T7]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

As easy as mine was to install, I just couldn't understand where he was running into issues that could not be easily overcome.

My thoughts exactly.
Nate's Dropmember is VERY easy to install.
No instructions were needed.

[69face]

RAY OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO PUT A 20 PIECE PUZZLE TOGETHER HENCE THE REASON HE HAD TO SEND HIS TRUCK OUT. HE PROBABLY TOOK THE FRONT FRAME SUPPORT OUT WITHOUT REINFORCING IT.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 69face

RAY OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO PUT A 20 PIECE PUZZLE TOGETHER HENCE THE REASON HE HAD TO SEND HIS TRUCK OUT. HE PROBABLY TOOK THE FRONT FRAME SUPPORT OUT WITHOUT REINFORCING IT.

I don't know what his skill level is/was but there's no need to take this thing back to the darker side. He could of had a genuine problem & if he would have shared the specifics on here, we could have helped him.

[N2TRUX]

I know that Nate appreciates those that support him and his business. Considering his innovative ability, I feel confident that he will survive this infringement of his design work and respond with yet another amazing new product.

I think it's probably a good idea to end this here before things get negative again....