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Old 03-16-2024, 12:31 PM   #1
hatzie
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Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

I own a Tech2 and a few older Snap On scan tools that support pre-1996 GM, Ford, Chrysler, Aisan, and Euro vehicles to one degree or another.

Set your expectations.
The pre-1996 Domestic Ford and GM ECMs' don't have much in the way of bi-directional controls but they do have a bunch of useful live data available for troubleshooting above and beyond the "codes" that might or might not trigger the money light.

The Vetronix Tech2 and Chinese clones can talk to most GM vehicles from 1991-2013.

The Snap On MT2500 "red brick" are fairly decent tools for diagnostics on 1980-1994 GM vehicles.

The Solus EESC310, Solus Pro EESC316, and MODIS EEMS300 cover 1980-94 & 1996 up to the limit of the installed software bundle and the unlocked coverage packages. Bundle 10.x covers up to 2010 Bundle 16.2 covers up to 2016 etc.

These tools are no longer supported by Snap On so the software bundle and coverages loaded on the tool or cartridges are all you get and repairs are your responsibility.
The unlocked manufacturer coverage packages are a similar situation.
If you have US Domestic, Asian, and Heavy Truck coverage unlocked, European coverage locked, and the tool is running bundle 12.4 like my MODIS EEMS300 and Solus EESC310, that's what you have til it fails past your ability to revive it.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD
1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD
1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD
1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD
1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD
1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD
2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500
2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263
2009 Impala SS LS4 V8


RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...Please include at least the year and model in your threads. It'll be easier to answer your questions.
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful.
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Old 03-16-2024, 01:02 PM   #2
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

MT2500 Red Brick

I managed to find a fairly complete MT2500 with most US Domestic and Asian OBDI data adapters GM, Chrysler, & Ford OBDI primary cartridges through 1993, Asian cartridge through 1993, a battery pak, and the manuals.
I did some research and picked up a full set of 1990's MT2500 personality keys, the 1999 Domestic cartridge that supports RENIX JEEP as well as the big three, the OBDI Jeep data adapter, and the OBDII personality key adapter.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!! The MT2500 data cable, OBDI / OBDII adapters, and personality keys will work with the Solus, Solus Pro, and MODIS models

For 1992-2001 GM T400 and all the GMT800 trucks I'd recommend a clone Tech2.
The MT2500 will do in a pinch but it will not ever do things like ABS bleed. Supposedly you need 10ish bundle on the Solus & Modis to support that but don't quote me on the exact bundle number.


The MT2500 "needs" list for OBDI GM stuff is fairly small

You need;
  1. The handheld red brick MT2500. Mine is a wee bit cleaner than any you're likely to find for sale, but you can fix that.
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  2. MT2500-1099, 1980-1999 Domestic Primary Cartridge.
    NOTE:The 2000 & later red primary cartridges only support 1996 and up.
  3. MT2500-1193, 1980 1/2-1993 GM Primary Cartridge ( The 1999 cartridge neutered some 1990 and prior support )
    NOTE: You don't need fast track troubleshooting cartridges. Nice to have but unnecessary.
    DO NOT put more than one primary cartridge in the tool and DO NOT insert a programmable VCI & Primary cartridge at the same time. It'll do unpredictable things or may not work at all.
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    I used to carry a lot of cables with my laptop for maintaining mobile data collection equipment. I got in the habit of corralling them with Velcro straps and various small nylon bags.
    Well worth the work to do this. A buddy who does DJ gigs and a couple friends of my uncle that are gig musicians swear by Velcro one-wrap thin cable management straps for keeping their amp & mic & ... cords from turning into a nightmare tangle.
    https://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-...4VTLF6SQW&th=1
  4. Data cable ( I would buy a new 6' or 10' data cable rather than use a janky beat to hell 30 year old cable that looks like rats chewed it ). You can get decent NEW 6' & 10' data cables with very nice flexible jacket and red molded ends on eBay for around $30-$35. NEW MT2500 data cable eBay search
    Note how This one is tied with the Velcro wrap. It didn't come this way.
  5. MT2500-10, GM-1, 12 terminal ALDL adapter
  6. MT2500-90, MULTI-1, data adapter.
    NOTE: I have the Snap On instruction sheet that came with the MULTI-1 data adapter. SnapOn_Multi-1_MT2500-90.pdf Instruction sheet
    This adapter will talk to various vehicles besides GM.
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    **Don't worry about the GM-3 ABS & GM-2 1980-82 five terminal ALDL adapters. They cost way more than a Multi-1.
    **My tool came with the GM-2 five terminal adapter for 1980-1983ish rigs. I'll likely never ever use it.
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  7. Power cables for GM & some Ford EEC III & IV; ( You can make both of these )
    • MT2500-100, Cigarette lighter plug to 5.5x2.5mm DC barrel plug centre positive
    • MT2500-200, Battery +terminal clip to 5.5x2.5mm DC barrel plug centre positive
      **NOTE You don't need to run the ground to the outer contact for the mt-2500 but you will to power a Solus, Solus Pro, or MODIS tablet.

    • Optionally A 10' cigarette lighter plug to DC barrel 5.5mm x 2.5mm centre positive and a fused female lighter socket to battery clips will take care of all your power needs.
      Lighter plug to 2.5mm DC barrel plug eBay search
      Battery clips to Lighter socket eBay search

    NOTE on power cables:
    Ford & Chrysler need the MT2500-41 ground cable to talk to some controllers but GM always has ground in the ALDL port. You can make a ground cable with 10' of black wire, an alligator clip, clear heat-shrink, and a 12129493 Female Metripak 280 terminal.
    This is a four foot MT2500-41 ground wire I assembled.


  8. OBDII adapter & Personality keys for 1995 - 1999 GM vehicles
    • MT2500-46B, sixteen terminal OBDII adapter with personality key slot
      NOTE: I use a 3' OBDII extension cable with this adapter.
    • 5 personality keys for the 1999 US Domestic cartridge;
      K-2A, K-7, K-9, K-12, K13
      • GM uses K-2A, K-9, K-12
      • Ford uses K-2A
      • Chrysler/Jeep uses K-7 & K-13
        NOTE: Adding K-5A will take care of the 1994-1997 Asian cartridge.
Personality key charts for MT2500 Solus and MODIS charts are in this thread as well.
The MT2500 keys I listed are based on 1995-1999 domestic primary cartridges
Snap-On personality key charts forum thread


NOTES:
If you have the MT2500VCI black programmable VCI primary and MT2500TSI Troubleshooting (you only need the Primary) cartridge(s) those cover from 1980-200x. The MT2500 can take up to a minute and a half booting these depending but these are the only cartridges you'll need.
eBay sellers seem to be pretty proud of the MT2500TSI & MT2500VCI cartridges. I paid $60 for mine in 2018 and I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a pair now.
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__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD
1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD
1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD
1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD
1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD
1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD
2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500
2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263
2009 Impala SS LS4 V8


RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...Please include at least the year and model in your threads. It'll be easier to answer your questions.
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful.

Last edited by hatzie; 03-25-2024 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Added Velcro one-wrap link
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Old 03-16-2024, 02:47 PM   #3
hatzie
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

Cleaning up the tool.

I've had this for several years and I don't have any before pictures. It was pretty black in places.
This fellow took his apart and took lots of pictures. https://gtsparkplugs.com/Snap-On-MT2500.html

If you don't have a great deal of patience, I wouldn't open one of these. The plastic ribbon cables to the display are similar to the printed circuits on the squarebody instrument clusters and the old Sinclair Spectrum keyboards. They're a fiddly PITA to get back in place and the case closed without the ribbon(s) slipping out of the sockets. I've done a bunch of this kind of work and I had to step away to collect myself before sitting down and doing more battle.

These were originally built in 1987 through the 1990's. There are several electrolytic capacitors on the mainboard and tantalums in the cartridges. I would test all of the electrolytics for capacitance and ESR and make sure the tantalum caps in the cartridges aren't dead shorted before applying power to the unit. Replace any that are out of spec. The caps on mine were very high quality Panasonic and Sprague parts. I didn't find any electrolytics that were out of spec after 30+ years and the tantalums were in good shape too.

I disassembled it and thoroughly scrubbed the empty case bits, rubber bumpers, and the Y/N buttons with Dr Bronners Castile soap and HOT water. It's soap not detergent so it's fairly mild and does a number on grease without damaging the plastics.

The YN circuit board cleaned up with 91% Isopropyl just ike a TV remote circuit board. Be VERY careful of the wires and the mainboard connector. I had to use needle nose pliers to carefully take it out. This is NOT keyed so pay attention to the direction of the RED wire and put it back the way you found it.

The rotary encoder wheel will clean up with 91% Isopropyl and a cloth. If it's really nasty pull the knob off the encoder and scrub it with Dr Bronners.

I did thoroughly spray the female cartridge ports down with DeOxit D5, let sit, scrubbed with an old power toothbrush, and sprayed the loosened crud out with more D5. Then I inserted and pulled out a chunk of sanded PC board and wiped it off til the contacts stopped leaving much crud on it. Then I sprayed out with D5 again. I did this with my Nephews NES and Super NES cartridge slots, and it seemed to do the trick on those.
The female connectors were available in 2018 from the usual suspects if you need one or two. I wouldn't be looking forward to removing and replacing one of these. The pin spacing and number of pins makes for a miserable time at the microscope.

A trick I use when re-installing screws in old plastic/ABS computer hardware, games, test gear cases, automobile controllers, etc. Drop the screw in the hole and turn them backwards very slowly til you feel the screw start to climb up the threads in the plastic hole. Then you can turn it forward without cutting new threads and weakening or cracking the plastic. Only turn it far enough that you can feel more resistance then stop.

The personality keys and cartridges have exposed copper/nickel contacts.
The cartridges were filthy too. I dis-assembled and scrubbed the cases with Dr Bronners. I scrubbed the personality keys with it too. Lots of greasy fingerprints on them.

The keys got a dose of 91% IPA (Isopropyl alcohol) and air dried.
The contacts on the cartridges and the Personality keys got the same treatment as my Nephews game cartridges.
Washcloths, Q-Tips, Wieman brass polish, 91% IPA, and Deoxit D5.
Sanding and erasers are abrasive and remove base metal. The chemicals will just remove the crud and corrosion. You just have to be very fastidious about cleaning up. Any polish left behind will quickly make a big mess.
  1. Put a spot of Wieman on a cloth, soak the spot into the cloth, then scrub the card edge contacts, being careful to not push polish onto the rest of the PC board. Be especially careful to not get any polish in the tiny through hole vias that are close to the fingers on the boards and keys and make sure to rinse it out with IPA if you do. If there's stubborn corrosion, scrub with a Q-tip with a tiny amount of polish on it.
  2. Wipe the excess off with the polishing cloth then wipe off the rest with another cloth using 91%IPA. I usually use three or four spots to make sure the ammonia is removed from the exposed copper.
  3. Spray some Deoxit D5 on another cloth and wipe on the exposed contacts. D5 will lubricate and protect the bare metal from oxidation.

Here are my MT2500 Keys before and after scrubbing with soap and cleaning off corrosion.
Notice the bad corrosion on K-13 and how clean it is after. No serious pitting shows even under the microscope.
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__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD
1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD
1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD
1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD
1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD
1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD
2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500
2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263
2009 Impala SS LS4 V8


RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...Please include at least the year and model in your threads. It'll be easier to answer your questions.
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful.

Last edited by hatzie; 03-23-2024 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 03-17-2024, 05:23 PM   #4
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

MT2500-600A Super Power Pak
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This is a clever little widget that passes the comms ground and power through while making the tool separate from the vehicle battery.
This will run the MODIS and Solus scanners that use the same cabling as the MT2500

Instruction sheet:
Here's the instructions from the back of the Domestic manual. I added repair parts numbers to the bottom of the page.
MT2500-600A-1_Instructions.pdf

The MT2500 doesn't have an external power supply jack. The vehicle diagnostic port provides power and ground to the tool on Terminals 1 & 15 to run the tool.
Yes there's a 9V battery under the LH rubber bumper will power up the unit as long as you hold the red button down. I believe it'll keep some data alive in the tool for a short time but I don't bother with the 9v battery.
It'll be upset with you during bootstrap but it won't affect any operation I've wanted to use. When you leave it in the closet for 8 months you won't have a tool full of battery juice either.

My MT2500 came with one of these power paks in the case. It had a leaking battery and no charger. I didn't pay extra for it.

I found several Super Power Paks on evilbay. These guys are really super proud of these things. They range in price from just a little too much to way way way too much to good lord what are they smoking.
Guaranteed they have leaking dead NiCd power cells inside just like mine did.

I decided since I had the pak I might as well make it work. I've used it once on my brothers' truck cause the tool was shutting down when we cranked it.
The original dead battery pak inside the widget was 7 500mah flat top NiCd AA cells welded in series. I re-loaded mine with 7 1100mah flat top AA NiCd cells glued together with hot snot and with nickel tabs welded in series. The bare cells were $28 but they cost more now.

These are the cells I removed from the tool. I have em in that Ziploc in a box with a handful of other batteries under my lab bench.
I really should take these to Manchester or Concord next time I go.
The Cadmium and Nickel are likely worth recovering.
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The batteries have red and black 18 0r 20ga copper wires that were mostly jackets filled with green goo and battery juice. The terminals in the Molex KK156 plug were white and furry and the plug on the PC board was furry. The slider switch was damaged from the juice too so I replaced it as well.
Unfortunately I just pitched the green furry wires without taking pictures and I'm not going to pull the pak apart to show off my hot snot and tab welding prowess .

There's a heavy cardboard shoe between the original batteries and the circuit board. My notes say I re-installed it to keep the batteries from shorting out on the comm connector pins. I also recall a bunch of degraded foam tape all over the inside of the shell and the circuit board now that I think about it.

Links to the parts according to my 2018 Mouser Electronics order:
I bought flat top Dantona brand 1100mah NiCd industrial AA cells from Batteries Plus in Concord.
The original Snap On charger for the Super Power Pak is 24vDC 100ma 5.5mm x 2.5mm center positive barrel plug. 24vDC 800ma or 1A with 5.5mm x 2.5mm center positive barrel plug are easy to find and nearly free. I didn't have one in my wall wart box. My local thrift store always has all kinds of power supplies for cordless landline phones, adding machines, toys, laptops, speakers, game consoles, ... I think I paid $1 for a 24V 2A wall wart with a 5.5mm x 2.5mm DC barrel plug.
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MY thoughts... You'll likely be cleaning up the leaked dried up NiCd battery juice from inside the pak and replacement battery cells ain't free. If you want one of these, factor this into your decision.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD
1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD
1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD
1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD
1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD
1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD
2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500
2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263
2009 Impala SS LS4 V8


RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...Please include at least the year and model in your threads. It'll be easier to answer your questions.
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful.

Last edited by hatzie; 03-19-2024 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 03-22-2024, 06:55 PM   #5
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

I have one of these.

Thanks for the info.

I will have to check mine out.

Especially those batteries.
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Old 03-25-2024, 03:09 PM   #6
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getter-Done View Post
I have one of these.

Thanks for the info.

I will have to check mine out.

Especially those batteries.
The battery pak is handy sometimes but they seem to be very very pricey for what you're getting.
I wouldn't count on one of these being serviceable as soon as you open the box.
If the seller hasn't put a new set of cells in the housing and included the AC power supply you'll have to get a battery pak welded and glued together or DIY, source an AC to 24vdc 100ma or better output power supply and, you'll also have electronics rework to do depending on how badly the battery juice damaged the board.
If you don't have the tools for welding up a battery pak just go to a Batteries Plus location that has the tools, nickel strips, and experience to do it right.

I found some pictures of that pak disassembled on my old phone FWIW.
I texted them to a buddy while I was repairing the corroded Molex connector and the damaged slide switch. I'd forgotten I took them.

There's a MOV on the board so they're apparently worried about electrons leaking places they're not supposed to.

Here are the slide switches. The replacement has a slightly taller slide.
The damaged old switch is on top of the warehouse pull baggie from Mouser.
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This is the board repair in progress. It looks like I hadn't completely cleaned up the flux and I can't find a picture on that phone of the badly corroded Molex KK.156 jack still mounted on the board or the finished product. I'd guess I didn't take them.
Notice the PC board is slid in between the two rows of the DE15 plug and all 15 are soldered to the board. This makes the package much thinner than a board mount connector.
This is easily repairable 1970's & 1980's through hole tech. The diode is marked CR (Crystal Rectifier IIRC) on the silkscreen just like the good old days.
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Here is the Molex KK.156 plug with new terminals attached to 20ga SXL wire and the the corroded terminals & crunchy PVC jacketed wire from the old furry battery pak that I'd just replaced.
The mouser pouch for the terminals is underneath with the part numbers readable. I usually keep a hundred or so of the KK.156 & KK.100 terminals in my arsenal.
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__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD
1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD
1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD
1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD
1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD
1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD
2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500
2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263
2009 Impala SS LS4 V8


RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...Please include at least the year and model in your threads. It'll be easier to answer your questions.
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful.

Last edited by hatzie; 03-25-2024 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 03-26-2024, 09:48 PM   #7
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

The pictures below are what I have.

I got this at what I thought was a good price.



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Old 03-27-2024, 12:25 PM   #8
hatzie
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Re: Commercial OBDI (ALDL) scan tools with some OBDII support

The images are pretty small. I can't read what's printed on the adapters, keys, and cartridges.

Looks like you have two Primary Domestic cartridges but I can't tell what years. That many personality keys tells me the PO had a cartridge at one time that covered into the 2000's.
If you have K-2A, K-7, K-9, K-12, K13 you'll be fine talking to 1994-1999 Domestic. K-5A will cover the 1990's Asian stuff.
Hang onto all of those keys. The keys will work with a Solus EESC310, Solus Pro EESC316, and MODIS EEMS300. Some personality keys can be very pricey. K20 is $54 new from the tool truck and not much cheaper used for some reason.

You have most of the Domestic OBDI adapters. Both Chrysler adapters, RENIX Jeep, A couple GM ALDL adapters, MULTI-1, Ford 1-B for EEC IV, a Mitsubishi adapter, and possibly another Asian OBDI data adapter. You also have two OBDII adapters with the personality key slots that look to be in decent shape.
My tool came with a couple other Ford data cable adapters for the 1980's ECMs & ABS stuff but they're like the GM-2 & GM-3 ALDL adapters... I'll never use them. Keep em if you've got em but don't bother looking for them if you don't have a rig that needs them.

It looks like you have the positive power cables which is very useful. You don't have to build your own. If you end up needing the ground wire for Asian and 80's Fords it's very easy to make.

The outer jacket on your main data cable is broken and the individual wires are exposed. Mine was a lot lot lot worse. It had chunks missing from the jacket and the wires that were exposed at the end were actually breaking off.
The 6'ers are $30ish and 10'ers are $36ish brand new. The jacket on the new ones is nice and flexible so it should be quite a while before it gets stiff and cracked.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...cable&_sacat=0

I found a couple manuals on the Snap On web site and I've copied them to Mediafire JIC they decide to completely stop serving them up.

Snap on Software Manuals;
My printed US Domestic manual has details on Chrysler, Ford, GM, & Jeep along with information on plugging the MT2500 into the Counselor II for a larger display.
__________________
1959 M35A2 LDT465-1D SOLD
1967 Dodge W200 B383, NP420/NP201 SOLD
1969 Dodge Polara 500 B383, A833 SOLD
1972 Ford F250 FE390, NP435/NP205 SOLD
1976 Chevy K20, 6.5L, NV4500/NP208 SOLD
1986 M1008 CUCV SOLD
2000 GMC C2500, TD6.5L, NV4500
2005 Chevy Silverado LS 2500HD 6.0L 4L80E/NP263
2009 Impala SS LS4 V8


RTFM... GM Parts Books, GM Schematics, GM service manuals, and GM training materials...Please include at least the year and model in your threads. It'll be easier to answer your questions.
And please let us know if and how your repairs were successful.

Last edited by hatzie; 03-28-2024 at 08:59 AM.
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