47-55.1 What's going wrong inside my 350?

[dsraven]

https://www.felpro.com/technical/fie...g-snapups.html

[dsraven]

here is another blurb on oil pump pick ups, pan gaskets etc.

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...ans-right-way/

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

drop the pan. get all the crap out, check a rod bearing, like #2, and see what you have, go from there on that topic. install the new gasket and t/cover and new front seal installed over the dowels torque it down. install the pan gasket and pan. finish assembling the front end stuff, done deal. that is peace of mind plus the gaskets and seals fit properly and don't slip out of alignment while jamming it back together. sure, I have done that same thing. I have also done maaaaany of these covers and pan gaskets so it is sorta old hat to me. for a guy who hasn't I recommend to just drop the pan and seal stuff up correctly.
is that a hoist it's sitting on? for sure, drop the pan, no issues with access when the truck is up off the ground. your neck may not agree when done.......

The picture is from back in December when I had the exhaust installed. This was way before finding out about the timing gears issue. I wish I would have known before doing the exhaust.

At home the truck is currently up on crib blocks. I can easily slide under the truck on my creeper no problem b/c it's up high enough.

[dsraven]

and yes, with the existing gears still in place, turn the engine over to achieve crank 12 and cam 6 oclock to make the new timing set install easier. use a straight edge ruler or something if you are unsure. don't turn the engine without the timing components in place of the open valves will hit the pistons-bad news.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

https://www.felpro.com/technical/fie...g-snapups.html

wow now those are cool.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

and yes, with the existing gears still in place, turn the engine over to achieve crank 12 and cam 6 oclock to make the new timing set install easier. use a straight edge ruler or something if you are unsure. don't turn the engine without the timing components in place of the open valves will hit the pistons-bad news.

I will turn the engine before I remove the gears to crank 12 and cam 6 o'clock and use a straight edge.

[dsraven]

actually, I personally would rather do an oil pan drop from laying on a creeper. less neck and leg strain. make room under there and carry on. use some safety glasses and an old set of coveralls because you will get drips of oil. drop the oil and leave the plug out for a day, if you have time, and a bunch of those drips will already be dripped.

[NeoJuice]

I actually had the plug out dripping for a while because I had a ton of gas in my oil. The plug is back in now and a new filter on. But looking it it a little closer I'm not sure if I'm gonna have room to pull the pan right now.

Issue #1: the exhaust needing to be dropped. ( Not a big deal).

Issue #2: looking at the mustang ii cross member I don't think I have enough room to drop the pan.

Did you look at that link I added about trimming up the t/chain cover?

[1project2many]

You can trim the timing cover to reinstall it without dropping the pan. It's something I used to do back in my dealership days. Clean the pan and block really well so the silicone sealer you use will bond.
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...87#post5548987

Once the cover is trimmed you will need to put the center into the pan first then push down, against the pan, as the cover is rotated back toward the block. You will likely need to use a tool to lever the cover down as it approaches the alignment dowels on the front of the block. It does work.

[DransportGarage]

I just watched the plastigage video (17+ minutes for plastigage !?), and I have 3 comments:

1) NEVER put a bearing in as shown in the video. (I.e., don't put the bearing on the crank, then put the cap on top of it.) When you torque it down you will probably shear/crush a portion of the little tang on the end of the bearing half. You install the bearing by hand INTO THE CAP first, then install the cap and bearing using the bolts.

2) Unlike what the video shows, NEVER place the plastigage anywhere except across the CENTER of the bearing half. I always put a smear of oil on both the crank and the bearing to a) hold the plastigage in place, and b) allow easy release of the plastigage when you are done. No amount of oil will cause the plastigage to give a false reading.

3) Sometimes the caps are hard to get off; however, when trying to get the cap off, NEVER tap on the rod, piston or bolts in such a direction that will crush the plastigage. It will flatten the plastigage and make the clearance appear smaller than it really is.

[dsraven]

agreed with dransport, never do the bearing install as shown, like said in a previous post. don't hammer on the bearing cap as described because it will flatten the plastigae and give false readings, put the plastigage on a film of light oil to help hold and release. further to that, use a lint free rag and install some bearing guard to the bearing on final assembly. the video was basically linked to show how plastigage works. sorry for any ill advice there in the video boys, good catch.
on the "shaved" t/cover, like 1project says, it is a common thing to do but be aware of how much you shave off so the seal will fit and stay in place. use good quality silicone and a couple of small center punches or the like to line up the dowels with the holes in the t/cover so you can press the cover down evenly. some will remove the dowels to make it easier then hold the cover in place with punches until a couple of bolts can be started, then install the dowels for line up purposes of the front seal on the crank, don't rely on the bolts for that and skip the dowels altogether.

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by dsraven

<snip> sorry for any ill advice there in the video boys, good catch. <snip>

IMO, this is exactly how this forum should work. Without your post, I would never have responded. 99% of the video is great advice. I just think we teamed up and helped the OP. (Besides, almost every time your advice goes way beyond my knowledge, ds!)

[Driver_WT]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

I actually had the plug out dripping for a while because I had a ton of gas in my oil. The plug is back in now and a new filter on. But looking it it a little closer I'm not sure if I'm gonna have room to pull the pan right now.

Issue #1: the exhaust needing to be dropped. ( Not a big deal).

Issue #2: looking at the mustang ii cross member I don't think I have enough room to drop the pan.

Did you look at that link I added about trimming up the t/chain cover?

With what you have found so far in that engine, I would definitely be dropping the oil pan and checking out the rest of the engine. It may be a pain in the ass now, but it will be worse if you put it all back together and there is a problem in the bottom end of the engine from shoddy work by someone who worked on this engine previously.

Wade

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

You can trim the timing cover to reinstall it without dropping the pan. It's something I used to do back in my dealership days. Clean the pan and block really well so the silicone sealer you use will bond.
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...87#post5548987

Once the cover is trimmed you will need to put the center into the pan first then push down, against the pan, as the cover is rotated back toward the block. You will likely need to use a tool to lever the cover down as it approaches the alignment dowels on the front of the block. It does work.

Thanks for the advise. I'm going to try remove the dowel pins from the block which should make it a little easier to slide down onto the front of the pan. I will also checkout the link you posted above. I'm picking up my new balancer and timing chain cover today. Hope to maybe get to the install this weekend.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Driver_WT

With what you have found so far in that engine, I would definitely be dropping the oil pan and checking out the rest of the engine. It may be a pain in the ass now, but it will be worse if you put it all back together and there is a problem in the bottom end of the engine from shoddy work by someone who worked on this engine previously.

Wade

Wade, I've been rolling that idea around in my head all night to drop the pan or not. Problem is there is only about 2-3" (haven't measured yet) from the front bottom of the pan to the mustang II cross member. I dont think it's enough to clear the bottom end of the motor and get the pan off. I dont have a engine hoist/crane to lift the motor up either so that's another issue.

Dropping the exhaust is not a big deal, a couple exhaust flange bolts and the hangers.

Attached is a very old picture so you can see the clearance.

[Driver_WT]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

Wade, I've been rolling that idea around in my head all night to drop the pan or not. Problem is there is only about 2-3" (haven't measured yet) from the front bottom of the pan to the mustang II cross member. I dont think it's enough to clear the bottom end of the motor and get the pan off. I dont have a engine hoist/crane to lift the motor up either so that's another issue.

Dropping the exhaust is not a big deal, a couple exhaust flange bolts and the hangers.

Attached is a very old picture so you can see the clearance.

You can remove the motor mount nuts/bolts and jack the engine up three or four inches. Had to do that when installing headers on my Corvette. Should be ok to jack on the oil pan if you put a block of wood on the jack first.

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by Driver_WT

<snip> Should be ok to jack on the oil pan
<snip>

...might be a problem when you try to take the oil pan off...

(I apologize. Too much coffee this morning. Would be OK if you can prop the engine up somehow and still get to the pan.)

[Driver_WT]

Originally Posted by DransportGarage

...might be a problem when you try to take the oil pan off...

(I apologize. Too much coffee this morning.)

Well, I am assuming that he blocks the engine up under the motor mounts , but one should not assume LOL

[NeoJuice]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll keep everyone updated on the progress. I'm off to get my new balancer and t/chain cover.

[dsraven]

borrow or rent an engine lift, pull the whole thing out and remove the pan while the engine is right side up so the stuff in the pan doesn't go into the rest of the engine. then flip it over and do the required work. you really should check those other internals while you have the pan off anyway.
or build a makeshift gantry from 2x6's or something else sturdy enough to hold the engine. I have pulled engines using the trusses in the shop,span several with a 4x4 post or something strong in order to spread the load. use a chain hoist to lift the engine enough to get the pan off. block it or chain it so the hoist is not the only thing holding the engine up, go from there. if you have some spare steel kicking around you could build a frame that sits on the frame and goes higher than the engine. jack the engine up and then chain it to the frame so it can't drop on you.
remember,your fingers don't grow back if they get snipped off. same for heads,hands etc
or, get a magnet and poke around till you fish out the metal parts from the timing cover, then slice the new t/cover up so you can install it on the engine as it sits without pulling the pan or anything else.
if it were me, the engine would be out. I'm a bit of a stickler for knowing what I have under the hood though. no surprises then on that little trip to Jasper.......
keep us posted

[DransportGarage]

In my old house I pulled engines from the TOP boards on the trusses. Centered on the peak of the roof, I put 2x4 stringers between two trusses to keep the trusses from being pulled together. I then put four eyebolts through the trusses near the ends of the stringers, and ran two short chains from eyebolt to eyebolt. I then hooked two long chains onto the center of the short chains and dropped them through the ceiling drywall, dressing the holes up with cup holder inserts. I then made a spanner bar and installed it just below the ceiling to keep the two long chains a set distance apart. Hook the two long chains together over the engine, hook your come-along to the chains and Voila! An engine hoist.

This was also a great way to store my chains. When I wanted one or two I'd just go to the attic and unhook them. I always knew where they were!

[NeoJuice]

Thanks DsRaven and DransportGarage for the tips. I was looking on Kijiji for rentals and the prices are not bad to rent a hoist and might go down that route. Also unfortunately the new house garage is fully dry walled & insulated so I cant use any overhead beams.

If you look at the attached picture I dont need to fish anything out of the pan. The broken off lip is still stuck to the seal/pan. I'll probably use some needle nose vice grips to clamp onto it and pull it out along with the seal. I dont want that thing dropping down into the pan lol. Then I will end up pulling the pan off.

[Driver_WT]

2 ton shop crane on sale at Princess Auto for $230 (although I don't like to buy this stuff because I rarely use it and then I have to find a place to store it). https://www.princessauto.com/en/deta...ne/A-p8668014e

I had my garage built with a steel I beam from one end to the other, and I have a chain fall lift on the I beam.

[dsraven]

before doing the t/chain install, also grab some brake cleaner to get the old rubber parts cleaned up and silicone remnants removed. I usually would flush the area afterwards with some fresh solvent (varsol type stuff) and have a dedicated garden sprayer just for this job. it works great for diffs as well. leave the pan plug out and let'er rip-starting from the top of the t/cover gasket area and down (try not to dilute the lube on the front of the cam bearing area or any of the rod bearings if spraying in the oil pan area), that way the gasket surfaces are all clean. any old silicone pieces or dust/rag lint etc are flushed out. I also use a pump and spray hand held unit, with viton seals, for smaller solvent jobs and have a few in the shop. solvent, engine cleaner, brake cleaner (I buy bulk-5 gal pail of each of these items, waaay cheaper and you get a better control of the pressure and spray pattern desired with the pump up sprayer. link below but they should be around the $50-60 mark. I know, sounds pricey but they last forever and can be used for a bunch of different things). remember to blow out the threaded holes so you don't cause a hydraulic lock situation behind the bolts when you install.
again, if it was me I would pull the engine and find out what I have for bearing clearances and thread locker on the rod bolts etc. I totally understand if you don't feel like doing all that work at this point in the frustration curve.
like an old buddy in the shop used to say
"get'er done, button'er up and wipe'er down".
hopefully still having fun.

https://www.kmstools.com/1l-pump-pre...y-bottle-11985

[dsraven]

in my home garages over the years I have always incorporated an attic hatch somewhere in the area where a chain fall would be used for this. a buddy of mine actually reinforced his trusses with plywood sheeting so he could hand wild meat safely. no sag in his roof! my garage now has trusses rated for tile roofing and has 18" of blown insulation. above that I have a platform so I can store a few items up there out of the way. the hatch location is in the middle front of the shop near the bench so always accessible even with 2 cars in there but also useable if required to lift something from there. I have an engine lift so not too often that is needed. you may check parts source or auto value for rentals or a deal on old stock engine lift. sometimes talking to a mechanic at a shop will also yield a cheap rental from his own home garage. you can usually sell the one you bought on kijiji even if you lose a little. you got to use it without a deadline to return so it is worth the small loss.
this kijiji ad seems like the right price for a combo. there is also uncle weiner's for the $300 mark-new-hoist only.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/e...ationFlag=true