1949 Chevy with S10 swap. Beginner build with ambition!

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I still think you are lacking a ground, and you have a ground loop that is letting the lights ground through the taillight bulbs

nothing and I mean NOTHING short of a dead short will pop a 25A fuse. an ATC type fuse will pass 300% its rated current for about a second before blowing. a dead short is the only thing that will pop a fuse instantly. that means you have something grounded that should not be (pinched wire, bare end touching metal), or you have something wired incorrectly.

that steering column thing catches everyone. once you understand that on a single bulb system the turn signal is actually the brake light, it just kind of clicks that you have to have the correct wiring at the column and brake switch.

1. battery to frame 2. frame to engine 3. frame to cab. Isn't that all of them?

I actually disconnected the tail lights and only have the park installed now. Same issue. I fashioned myself a test light out of an LED panel I had kicking around. I then turned on the park light switch. Touched the outside to the test light and then grounded it. Guess what, it lit. So the one thing I didn't think of is, what if the light fixture is shorting? That's the next check.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

1. battery to frame 2. frame to engine 3. frame to cab. Isn't that all of them?

it's not. battery to frame. battery to cab. battery to engine. the only way I would combine any of them is if the wire was continuous and had rings on the continuous wire. the stock S10 battery cable does this, has a ring for the frame on the battery to engine heavy cable. the connections to the frame and cab should be shiny bare metal and using a star washer to bite.

also. bolting a bed to the frame is not the same electrically as grounding a bed to the frame. neither is bolting a fender to a cab that is bolted to the frame. modern trucks have ground wires from lugs on the frame to the sheetmetal of the bed to pass the ground more efficiently. so what I am thinking is, you dont have a good ground on the bed, the brake bulbs are passing the ground back to the switch, which works till the brake light wire gets power. now something is trying to ground through it at the same time it has power on it. snap.

its all the different ground potentials that cause problems because the total voltage drop of a circuit is equal to the sum of all the voltage drops in a circuit.

it could very well be you have a short at the bulb holder, its not very likely on new stuff but it happens. I had a bad bulb holder on the 41 too, but it was an old one.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

it's not. battery to frame. battery to cab. battery to engine. the only way I would combine any of them is if the wire was continuous and had rings on the continuous wire. the stock S10 battery cable does this, has a ring for the frame on the battery to engine heavy cable. the connections to the frame and cab should be shiny bare metal and using a star washer to bite.

also. bolting a bed to the frame is not the same electrically as grounding a bed to the frame. neither is bolting a fender to a cab that is bolted to the frame. modern trucks have ground wires from lugs on the frame to the sheetmetal of the bed to pass the ground more efficiently. so what I am thinking is, you dont have a good ground on the bed, the brake bulbs are passing the ground back to the switch, which works till the brake light wire gets power. now something is trying to ground through it at the same time it has power on it. snap.

its all the different ground potentials that cause problems because the total voltage drop of a circuit is equal to the sum of all the voltage drops in a circuit.

it could very well be you have a short at the bulb holder, its not very likely on new stuff but it happens. I had a bad bulb holder on the 41 too, but it was an old one.

OK you're blowing my mind here lol. So battery goes to engine block. With a smaller wire from engine block to frame and a wire from frame to cab. Would that ground everything correctly? I also read there is a 14ga from the core support to the front frame.

As for the rear I have ground wires in that fixture so I connected them to a nice clean frame bolt in the rear. Then I don't have to try ground the bed to anything. I'll play some more tomorrow and see how far I get


Update: Took the other park light apart. OMG!!!! Anyone see the problem of why there seemed to be a short?



Problem solved

[joedoh]

that'll do it!

on the grounds I am saying, dont ground from one point then to another from that point, unless you want to chase down alternator whine or gauge bounce in everything you install. everything needs to ground to the same point, the battery. going from one point to the next is series wiring and you pick up losses from the material and connectors.

[gigamanx]

Great progress today now that I don't have shorts. Headlights and park lamps work. Turn signals work great

Onto the rear!

TLDR: Scratch all that. I dug into the steering column a bit and found the culprit. A crossed wired touching. Ugh. All works now... brakes, turn, yes!

I found my rear end problem is in the way the column is wired for the universal column I bought. The right rear and left rear turn signal wires M and N have power running through them even when turn is off. I resolved this by splicing the tail lights with the front turn signals. Worked great! So the rear now has park working and taillights.

Brakes are the problem! I have confirmed my brake switch completes the circuit. Power goes through to the orange wire from the white wire. White happens to also be brake input, supposedly. In the steering column, this is also always powered so I assume that's where the power comes from.

An academic question. I have a two wired LED rear lamp.

1. If I have park on, they are dimly lit. Great!
2. If I have turn signal on, they are super bright while flashing. Great!
3. If I have both park and turn on, they get bright and dim. Great!
4. If I am driving down the road and put my brakes on. Then put my turn signal on, what are the rear lights supposed to do? How do they blink if the brake power is keeping them on?

I'm asking because I'm thinking I need to use the 3rd brake light wire in my wiring harness and connect it to the rear lights so when brakes are depressed, the rear light goes on. Otherwise, my brakes aren't sending anything to the rear

Update: Odd situation. The third brake light wire is always powered. I just checked it and the lights are on. Looks like a fault inside my harness if that's the case. I would imagine this isn't supposed to have power until I press the brake pedal..

Yeah so after all that stuff above, it was a crossed wire in the steering column that was feeding a few of the rear turn signal wires at the wrong times. Problem solved. Brakes work, turn works. I can now safely tell my fellow motorists what I'm doing

[oldman3]

glad you found the problem...Jim

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by oldman3

glad you found the problem...Jim

Thank you sir! My first assumption of troubleshooting was faulty. "If I bought it new, it works as designed"

[joedoh]

haha yeah its ALWAYS the column wiring. I get texts from guys about this problem and usually checking the column wiring is the fix, which is why I was surprised when it wasnt at first.

[99 to Life]

cool glad you found it. When you pop fuses instantly from my experience it is from a POS touching a ground. which in your case it was. If all this stuff worked first try why then how would we learn how it truly works? I still fight myself with that. It just doens't kick in till a day or two later that oh yah, I learn by fixing stuff that doesn't work.

[gigamanx]

More progress over the last week. Lots of little jobs that just add up to a ton of time. Today I fitted the passenger inner fender, wired the battery to the bed and rewired some of the grounds. I also have the bed floor frame completed, bolted, and welded in. Ready for a piece of plywood or similar to give me a temporary bed floor. No problems encountered, just plugging away at the todo list.

"While I was there"... I also rewired the internals of the big horn that came with my truck. I didn't think it would actually work, but the internals are all metal with a copper coil creating the sound. Its loud as hell and sounds like a train haha. Works for me!





Also got some spacers in the mail. Gigantic 3" hub centric ones to push the rear wheels to the edge of the fenders. Should fit nicely!

[gigamanx]

Accelerator pedal update. Much better location. I moved it closer to the firewall, down a bit, and further away from the brake pedal. Used my other car as a gauge on where the pedals should naturally be.

Before:


After:


Moved onto some other smaller parts yesterday. Figuring out a parking brake solution since the stock one isn't going to work with the S10 brake cable. I've accepted the fact that I'll be attaching the S10 park brake to the drivers side kick panel somehow. Thinking of just welding a couple of bolts to the sheet metal for attaching the brake pedal.

I also tried getting the speedo to work and noticed the S10 speedo cable doesn't actually fit on the original gauges. Looks like the S10 is sort of a press fit attachment and the 49 chevy had a screw on style. Does anyone know what cable I should look for to connect to a 700r4? Also, do I need to drain the trans fluid to change the cable out?

[Black_Sheep]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Accelerator pedal update. Much better location. I moved it closer to the firewall, down a bit, and further away from the brake pedal. Used my other car as a gauge on where the pedals should naturally be.

Before:


After:


Moved onto some other smaller parts yesterday. Figuring out a parking brake solution since the stock one isn't going to work with the S10 brake cable. I've accepted the fact that I'll be attaching the S10 park brake to the drivers side kick panel somehow. Thinking of just welding a couple of bolts to the sheet metal for attaching the brake pedal.

I also tried getting the speedo to work and noticed the S10 speedo cable doesn't actually fit on the original gauges. Looks like the S10 is sort of a press fit attachment and the 49 chevy had a screw on style. Does anyone know what cable I should look for to connect to a 700r4? Also, do I need to drain the trans fluid to change the cable out?

I think the 700 uses the same size thread on the trans end as a TH350 and TH 400 so finding a cable should be fairly easy. Figure out the length you need and start by looking at GM truck speedometer cables, you should be able to find something close.

[ptc]

Originally Posted by Black_Sheep

I think the 700 uses the same size thread on the trans end as a TH350 and TH 400 so finding a cable should be fairly easy. Figure out the length you need and start by looking at GM truck speedometer cables, you should be able to find something close.

My TH400 uses a VSS style electrical connection. IF your trans is pre '88 and you want to change it to electronic then use one of these.



if the trans is post '88 it whould only need a plug harness whip and connect to your wiring electronic speedo harness wires.

[OutlawDrifter]

Originally Posted by ptc

My TH400 uses a VSS style electrical connection. IF your trans is pre '88 and you want to change it to electronic then use one of these.



if the trans is post '88 it whould only need a plug harness whip and connect to your wiring electronic speedo harness wires.

He's trying to use the original speedo...

[99 to Life]

Cable X and dakata digital are options for going from electronic trans to Original speedo. but over 300$. I opted to convert an autometer speedo (electric speedo to electric trans) major modification but worked pretty good and for only $140. I'v only seen one other speedo conversion that "looked" original. did a tach conversion too. used a sunpro tach for $30

[gigamanx]

Should have clarified, my 700r4 uses a manual speedo sprocket and cable. I want to go with new gauges at some point, but $600 is about the average I have seen for a nice set and I'm not quite prepared to drop that coin on one part.

[Black_Sheep]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Should have clarified, my 700r4 uses a manual speedo sprocket and cable. I want to go with new gauges at some point, but $600 is about the average I have seen for a nice set and I'm not quite prepared to drop that coin on one part.

Maybe this will help...

https://www.ecklerstrucks.com/chevy-...1955-1972.html

[Black_Sheep]

I tried everything possible to make the stock speedometer read correctly. Reproduction speedometer, new cable, speedometer drive gear and driven gear but the only time it was accurate was around 45 mph, otherwise it read low at low speed and high at high speed. I finally bit the bullet and went with a GPS unit from Speedhut.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by Black_Sheep

I tried everything possible to make the stock speedometer read correctly. Reproduction speedometer, new cable, speedometer drive gear and driven gear but the only time it was accurate was around 45 mph, otherwise it read low at low speed and high at high speed. I finally bit the bullet and went with a GPS unit from Speedhut.

Not bad. How does the odometer work on those? Is it just a digital unit for that too? Can you set it to the current mileage on the engine? I've been holding out for these ones..

http://newvintageusallc.mybigcommerc...uge-kit-beige/

Biggest issue I just noticed is they aren't GPS. Looks like you can buy a GPS sender for them though.

I may have to go the route of buying gauges anyway. I'm slowly tinkering with the last items for an official Pennsylvania inspection and one requirement is having turn indicator and high beam indicator lights on the dash. I saw someone on here drilled a couple holes in the dash between the gauges, but I'm going with custom gauges eventually anyway, so then I'd have three holes to fill up again later lol.

Sad day today in the garage as I realize, I am almost done on this first round of truck building. I have a temporary bed to throw on out of plywood, the drivers door, parking brake assembly, and the hood. Man that's a short list. No wonder you guys and gals start new projects, its a bit depressing knowing I don't need to spend my whole weekend in the garage working at a feverish pace for some end goal. Marathon done

[joedoh]

looks like you are making good progress, this is where the fun is because everything you do is the last time you do it, no more test fit assembly then blow it back apart. things are DONE done.


I went the stepper route on the 47 and the 49, looked amazing.

IMG_1066 by Joe Doh, on Flickr
IMG_1070 by Joe Doh, on Flickr

mine went to the original s10 cluster that I hid behind the dash, but you could do it like henry did too with aftermarket gauges. on the high beam/turn signal thing, on the 47 I put the lights on the steeering cover, on the 49 I drilled them into the speedo face.

I am getting to the point though that I will just order some custom made to work with the S10 harness from now on. figuring out hours in the shop, it costs less! there is a company I cant remember the name off hand that makes some killer gauges and you essentially tell them what you want and what the senders are. I am jonesing to use them on the next 49 I am doing.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

looks like you are making good progress, this is where the fun is because everything you do is the last time you do it, no more test fit assembly then blow it back apart. things are DONE done.


I went the stepper route on the 47 and the 49, looked amazing.

IMG_1066 by Joe Doh, on Flickr
IMG_1070 by Joe Doh, on Flickr

mine went to the original s10 cluster that I hid behind the dash, but you could do it like henry did too with aftermarket gauges. on the high beam/turn signal thing, on the 47 I put the lights on the steeering cover, on the 49 I drilled them into the speedo face.

I am getting to the point though that I will just order some custom made to work with the S10 harness from now on. figuring out hours in the shop, it costs less! there is a company I cant remember the name off hand that makes some killer gauges and you essentially tell them what you want and what the senders are. I am jonesing to use them on the next 49 I am doing.

Well now that you suggest it, I do need something to do with myself while its ridiculously cold outside. I didn't think to put the lights into the gauges. It will totally ruin the originals so that part sucks....Probably the cheapest route at this point. All I really need for inspection is speedo, odometer, and the three lights. They don't care if I am overheating with an empty tank of gas haha

I do have a separate water temp I installed just so I didn't do something catastrophic when I was running the engine.

Question: Do you need the wiring harness and ECU to make the Odometer work correctly or does it just need power? I'm not running the wiring harness from that truck anymore if I do need the ECU.

[joedoh]

if its a cable speedo the cable runs the odo too.

there is already a high beam light on the orginal speedo so one less to add!

[Black_Sheep]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Not bad. How does the odometer work on those? Is it just a digital unit for that too? Can you set it to the current mileage on the engine? I've been holding out for these ones..

http://newvintageusallc.mybigcommerc...uge-kit-beige/

Biggest issue I just noticed is they aren't GPS. Looks like you can buy a GPS sender for them though.

I may have to go the route of buying gauges anyway. I'm slowly tinkering with the last items for an official Pennsylvania inspection and one requirement is having turn indicator and high beam indicator lights on the dash. I saw someone on here drilled a couple holes in the dash between the gauges, but I'm going with custom gauges eventually anyway, so then I'd have three holes to fill up again later lol.

Sad day today in the garage as I realize, I am almost done on this first round of truck building. I have a temporary bed to throw on out of plywood, the drivers door, parking brake assembly, and the hood. Man that's a short list. No wonder you guys and gals start new projects, its a bit depressing knowing I don't need to spend my whole weekend in the garage working at a feverish pace for some end goal. Marathon done

The odometer is digital, I don't know if it can be programmed to reflect your truck's current mileage, that would be a good question for the manufacturer.

FYI the TS and high beam indicators are incorporated into the Speedhut unit, you can see them in my picture. It makes for a clean looking installation

[gigamanx]

Went the el-cheapo route for now. The shell of the original gauge definitely needed some modification. I think it turned out just fine in the end. I took out the trip dials and just left the odometer side hooked up.



New bracket on the side, but I kept the plate on the back since the holes for the 49 gauge actually line up with the holes on the 1988 S10 gauge. Amazing how little that they changed. The general dimensions of the two are almost identical. The plastic crap housing for the newer odometer was the biggest problem.





Drawing my own dials. I thought of having some fun and writing "really fast" instead of speed numbers haha...oh well, ended up keeping it vanilla


and we're done! Total cost, $4.99 for some super glue to get the needle to fit.

[99 to Life]

you will appreciate having a speedo. are you able to get the stock light that went in the gauge to fit? that will also come in handy.