700r4 Shifts Too Quickly

[C10_ustacould]

We have a 700r4 behind a 350 (290hp) and it shifts 2-3-4 very quickly. We are using the Bowtie Overdrives TV made easy setup to control the throttle valve. We have the eccentric in the most aggressive position and it holds first gear out pretty well but after the 1-2 shift it immediately shifts 2-3 and 3-4. Does anyone have any experience with fixing this issue?

[Captainfab]

Have you checked your line pressures in all gears? From what I have read here on this forum, it sounds to me that the cause of your shifting too soon would be with the governor. There are many, many, many threads here all about anything you need to know about the 700R4.

[DieselSJ]

I had the same issue but just with my 2-3 shift. Discussed with clinebarger (check the stickies for his transmission knowledge) and turns out there was a spring missing from one of the valves in the valve body.

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Have you checked your line pressures in all gears? From what I have read here on this forum, it sounds to me that the cause of your shifting too soon would be with the governor. There are many, many, many threads here all about anything you need to know about the 700R4.

Originally Posted by DieselSJ

I had the same issue but just with my 2-3 shift. Discussed with clinebarger (check the stickies for his transmission knowledge) and turns out there was a spring missing from one of the valves in the valve body.

Thanks guys, I was being a little lazy I'll spend a little more time searching ...

[YoungPup1977]

I would check the TV cable first, make sure its adjusted correctly. Is this a fresh rebuild or has this been doing this for awhile ?

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

I would check the TV cable first, make sure its adjusted correctly. Is this a fresh rebuild or has this been doing this for awhile ?

The TV cable is adjusted correctly, I'm thinking it may be in the governor.

[YoungPup1977]

What is indicating the cable is adjusted correctly ?
Posted via Mobile Device

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

What is indicating the cable is adjusted correctly ?
Posted via Mobile Device

I followed the procedure detailed by Bowtie Overdrives.

[YoungPup1977]

As you described your issue, you indicated you are having "stacked" shifts" 2/3, 3/4 come on top of each other....as I read your first post... do you have kickdown once you are in overdrive (4th) ?

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

As you described your issue, you indicated you are having "stacked" shifts" 2/3, 3/4 come on top of each other....as I read your first post... do you have kickdown once you are in overdrive (4th) ?

Yes, it will down shift at about 3/4 throttle.

[LH Lead-Foot]

Perhaps a silly question but did you inspect the governor closely the doing the build? Governor line pressure drops as you go faster, so even though it hangs in first gear properly, I would be looking at shift valve 1-2, 2,3 & 4th as the governor line pressure drops with speed, the shift valves moves by a spring and timing from accumulator pressure helps with timing. You avoid having two gears lock or applied at the same time if all is working. If you are sure the correct color springs were used with the right shift valve, accumulator pistons are not cracked, check balls in place...
I would check the governor for freedom of movement and bring condition. Aftermarket springs are available for increasing **** points and are heavier that originals. They come as kits to remove weights, new pins and a selection of springs. Remove center valve and clean. Make sure it moves freely inside the bore and passages are clean. Since it's on the outside, it's easy to check. Easy first.
Detent or TV cable control line pressure for holding holding the band or piston clutch pack pressure so they don't slip. It has little to do with up-shifts but still important and correct adjustment. Also there are two tiny cone shaped screens that should be cleaned if not replaced.
One tiny thing, make sure the manuals shift valve is in correct position for each shift. Best of luck.

[YoungPup1977]

I always wondered why the gov is splined into the output shaft. would this mean the gov is controlled by road speed and the faster you go it opens the flood gates for the fluid to rush to the shift valves. So if the 1/2 shift is ok and the 2/3 3/4 are stacked means only one piece of the gov is not Worky ? Maybe toss in a th350 gov with firm springs into it and see the difference.

Does the TV pressure worky against gov pressure to provide shifts based on how the positioning of the tv valve is operated ? So later shifts would mean tv pressure was increased so gov pressure has to overcome tv pressure to send fluid to the shift valve ? Just talking basic fluid flow in the 700 ...... anyone ?
No copy and paste the flow charts...
Posted via Mobile Device

[LH Lead-Foot]

The TV cable is primarily used to control line pressure for clamping & holding. There is a regulator used to generate shift valve control pressure. This pressure along with the correct spring, push the shift valve towards governor pressure. The TV cable moves a valve to create pressure depending on throttle position. Reducing line pressure allows a holding component to slip, so many things are done to increase line pressure for holding. The reason the pressure is allowed to go down, is because this is a load on the engine. It's like when the A/C compressor comes on and pulls the engine speed down. There is internal HP losses due to internal friction and hydraulic load...both effect MPG and get up and go.
Adjustment is crucial... While other kits use a spring to pre-load the linkage to the TV valve, others offer a shorter wire linkage to remove slack on the inside. I measured the complete movement on one, and he's is the factory measurement. 1.5" total with OEM setup. If the slack is removed, that drops to 1.25" total movement.

Governor...
The faster the driveshaft goes, the lower governor pressure is. Slow speed is higher pressure. This is the balancing act that takes place on any shift valve to create an up-shift or down-shift. A simple version only, but way more complicated. Accumulators work like a delay, so as it fills up or drains out (Spring/Fluid Pressure/Drain hole size, etc.), one shift valve moves to create an up-shift, while the other shift valve moves to release the clutch pack or band, before the other occurs. This is timing that drilling holes in the separator plate may shorten timing to have firmer shifting, while allowing the last valve to release quicker. It is the "Teeter-Toter" with the fat kid on one side & skinny kid on the other. A balancing act. This is only a simple explanation.

I don't think the TH350 governor will fit the 7004r. Since the governor is on the right side tail shaft, wire retainer, cover & o-ring...makes it easy to inspect, change or fix. Kits to change shift points by modifying the governor range from $20 to $80. They may include weights, springs, new pivot pins, etc. Most offer a sheet that would generally show what part, make which change. Just make sure the governor is in good shape. Fluid loss is very little when removed. My experience is fixing what I had and not modifying for changes. There are several very good youtube vids on this subject. Best of luck.

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

Perhaps a silly question but did you inspect the governor closely the doing the build? Governor line pressure drops as you go faster, so even though it hangs in first gear properly, I would be looking at shift valve 1-2, 2,3 & 4th as the governor line pressure drops with speed, the shift valves moves by a spring and timing from accumulator pressure helps with timing. You avoid having two gears lock or applied at the same time if all is working. If you are sure the correct color springs were used with the right shift valve, accumulator pistons are not cracked, check balls in place...
I would check the governor for freedom of movement and bring condition. Aftermarket springs are available for increasing **** points and are heavier that originals. They come as kits to remove weights, new pins and a selection of springs. Remove center valve and clean. Make sure it moves freely inside the bore and passages are clean. Since it's on the outside, it's easy to check. Easy first.
Detent or TV cable control line pressure for holding holding the band or piston clutch pack pressure so they don't slip. It has little to do with up-shifts but still important and correct adjustment. Also there are two tiny cone shaped screens that should be cleaned if not replaced.
One tiny thing, make sure the manuals shift valve is in correct position for each shift. Best of luck.

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

I always wondered why the gov is splined into the output shaft. would this mean the gov is controlled by road speed and the faster you go it opens the flood gates for the fluid to rush to the shift valves. So if the 1/2 shift is ok and the 2/3 3/4 are stacked means only one piece of the gov is not Worky ? Maybe toss in a th350 gov with firm springs into it and see the difference.

Does the TV pressure worky against gov pressure to provide shifts based on how the positioning of the tv valve is operated ? So later shifts would mean tv pressure was increased so gov pressure has to overcome tv pressure to send fluid to the shift valve ? Just talking basic fluid flow in the 700 ...... anyone ?
No copy and paste the flow charts...
Posted via Mobile Device

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

The TV cable is primarily used to control line pressure for clamping & holding. There is a regulator used to generate shift valve control pressure. This pressure along with the correct spring, push the shift valve towards governor pressure. The TV cable moves a valve to create pressure depending on throttle position. Reducing line pressure allows a holding component to slip, so many things are done to increase line pressure for holding. The reason the pressure is allowed to go down, is because this is a load on the engine. It's like when the A/C compressor comes on and pulls the engine speed down. There is internal HP losses due to internal friction and hydraulic load...both effect MPG and get up and go.
Adjustment is crucial... While other kits use a spring to pre-load the linkage to the TV valve, others offer a shorter wire linkage to remove slack on the inside. I measured the complete movement on one, and he's is the factory measurement. 1.5" total with OEM setup. If the slack is removed, that drops to 1.25" total movement.

Governor...
The faster the driveshaft goes, the lower governor pressure is. Slow speed is higher pressure. This is the balancing act that takes place on any shift valve to create an up-shift or down-shift. A simple version only, but way more complicated. Accumulators work like a delay, so as it fills up or drains out (Spring/Fluid Pressure/Drain hole size, etc.), one shift valve moves to create an up-shift, while the other shift valve moves to release the clutch pack or band, before the other occurs. This is timing that drilling holes in the separator plate may shorten timing to have firmer shifting, while allowing the last valve to release quicker. It is the "Teeter-Toter" with the fat kid on one side & skinny kid on the other. A balancing act. This is only a simple explanation.

I don't think the TH350 governor will fit the 7004r. Since the governor is on the right side tail shaft, wire retainer, cover & o-ring...makes it easy to inspect, change or fix. Kits to change shift points by modifying the governor range from $20 to $80. They may include weights, springs, new pivot pins, etc. Most offer a sheet that would generally show what part, make which change. Just make sure the governor is in good shape. Fluid loss is very little when removed. My experience is fixing what I had and not modifying for changes. There are several very good youtube vids on this subject. Best of luck.

WOW...

This is a ton of information for someone who knows very little about the internal functions of and automatic transmission. I didn't build the transmission, it was in the truck when I bought it. The TV cable was not mated to the Edelbrock carb correctly so I bought a TV Made Easy kit from Bowtie Overdrives. I've used them in several vehicles and they have worked wonderfully. I adjusted the cable by retracting the cable stop in the detent and then mashing the accelerator to the floor for WOT. (We do get WOT) The system has an eccentric that changes the firmness of shifts without changing the total pull on the TV cable. This eccentric is maxed out, or in the most aggressive position. Unfortunately, this the only information I have on the transmission and honestly the information above is way above my head. I think that because my TV system seems to be working I’ll start by making sure the valve in the governor is working correctly and then buy a governor adjustment kit if required. Thanks for the info, I’ve got some homework to do…

[YoungPup1977]

Gov

[YoungPup1977]

gov

[LH Lead-Foot]

The manual valve defaults to first gear when placed in drive or manual low. The governor helps determine the upshifts and downshifts.
Hope all of the online answers help. Yah, you can buy anything you want, but learning is done with hands on, watching or doing...some require all three methods of learning.
The geometry of the operation of the TV cable to throttle position helps as several manufacture have their own ideas.
Hope this fixes your problem, or at least give you some info to help you understand the complexity of the slush box. Blessings.

[C10_ustacould]

Well, my son (C10punk) and I finally took on the the task of making adjustments to the governor in our transmission. We did some research and found a starting point we were comfortable with and it was really close. We started with the #2 and #4 weights with the green and yellow springs. This combination fixed the stacked shifts but the WOT upshifts were too late, as I wanted a consistent up shift at or below 5000 rpm. C10punk suggested matching the #3 weight with the yellow spring and it worked out great with shifts consistently between 4900 and 5000 rpm. Thanks for the help!

[YoungPup1977]

Most of the time when you are experiencing stacked shifts its because the gov pressure is being overcome by TV pressure. The original springs in the gov were different from each other that’s why the 1/2 shift seemed to be where it needed to be.

Glad you got it figured out.

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

Most of the time when you are experiencing stacked shifts its because the gov pressure is being overcome by TV pressure. The original springs in the gov were different from each other that’s why the 1/2 shift seemed to be where it needed to be.

Glad you got it figured out.

Makes sense now that I've seen how it reacts to changes. The original weights both had a "C" on them so I believe they were identical, but the springs were definitely different.