Done with EFI, back to carb

[fdbdw]

Holley sniper EFI has been nothing but problems. Runs great when everything is working correctly but those times are few and far between.
I’ll be taking it out and I have a AVS2 650cfm on the way. Can’t wait to be done with this system.

[Travisarmenta]

That's unfortunate, lot of money to drop on something and it not pan out the way you hoped.

I plan on running one on my wife's 292, but we will see...

[liftlawssuck]

Don't get rid of it yet!! They are great when dialed in but they take a while. Once dialed in you get aa whole different motor. What are the symptoms? I have taken a couple now that people have given up on and got them to where they should be. The biggest fault with them is EMI. It will wreck havoc with the system.

[weim55]

What is EMI ??

Steve weim55 Colorado

[dtkarst]

Anytime I have a Holley on anything it goes away. PO switched the Quadra jet off my 402 and put a Holley on. I rebuilt the QJ and put it back on, runs much better. I’ve just never had luck long term with a Holley. Just my two cents

[fdbdw]

Long list of issues, it was always something. I agree, when it’s not having problems, it runs great. To me, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I can tune a carb to get close to the same performance and it’s much easier to diagnose and fix carb with mechanical fuel pump issues. My old truck had 1406 with performer fuel pump, tuned it and never had a problem. With this EFI I was lucky to get a week out of it before I had to chase down another problem

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by fdbdw

Holley sniper EFI has been nothing but problems. Runs great when everything is working correctly but those times are few and far between.
I’ll be taking it out and I have a AVS2 650cfm on the way. Can’t wait to be done with this system.

Edelbrock can be described in a few simple turns of the screws and done!

YES!

[liftlawssuck]

Originally Posted by weim55

What is EMI ??

Steve weim55 Colorado

ElectroMagnetic Interference.
If you're running an HEI it is really close the computer that it picks up EMI and runs interference. If you set parameters and then it changes from one time to another and nothings seems to be normal and different every time there is a good chance it's EMI. Shield the back of the Holley to separate it from the distributor and run it. Holley's biggest mistake is that all wiring should have been shielded.

It's not any harder to tune than a carb. It's just a different way to tune. With this you need a good understanding of theory but it's the same thing as a carb. Running rich you turn a screw to lean it out. Running rich on Sniper you go in a change a parameter. Same theory but different way to go about it. Most people are better at tuning a carb because they can see what they are doing in a mechanical way. Using Sniper is more electrical troubleshooting that's new and most people can't grasp it. When we changed the instrument panels on airplane from old steam gauge to glass people had the same effect. But in the end troubleshooting was made way easier.

[cleszkie]

Originally Posted by liftlawssuck

ElectroMagnetic Interference.
If you're running an HEI it is really close the computer that it picks up EMI and runs interference. If you set parameters and then it changes from one time to another and nothings seems to be normal and different every time there is a good chance it's EMI. Shield the back of the Holley to separate it from the distributor and run it. Holley's biggest mistake is that all wiring should have been shielded.

I completely agree with this statement. I have seen the same problem solved with shielding on other rigs running the Sniper EFI. To add to this, I run an MSD Atomic EFI. I initially ran it with an HEI and had the same issues. I shielded all of my wiring and fixed the problems. I've since gone to a MSD billet dizzy which has the timing continuously controlled by the Atomic brain, but kept all the shielding just for good measure.

[weim55]

Originally Posted by fdbdw

Holley sniper EFI has been nothing but problems. Runs great when everything is working correctly but those times are few and far between.
I’ll be taking it out and I have a AVS2 650cfm on the way. Can’t wait to be done with this system.

Do you have any reason to think your issues with the EFI have something to do with our high altitude??

Steve weim55 Colorado

[fdbdw]

Originally Posted by weim55

Do you have any reason to think your issues with the EFI have something to do with our high altitude??

Steve weim55 Colorado

Nothing to do with the altitude, the system is just real finicky . It was always something different. Spent more time chasing different problems then driving the truck.

[weim55]

I have yet to see a single person using an aftermarket EFI conversion that truly surpassed a carburetor on all fronts and was user installed. The two cases I know of that were successful, repeatable and reliable long term were both setup by a shop familiar with the kit and the shop equipment the execute it. (exhaust analyzer, dyno). Even then the performance is not without some minor issues.

I myself have never had my hands on one these conversions. After experiencing and reading of other peoples woes and concerns, I've come to the conclusion the only real way to achieve reliable, repeatable turn key EFI is to go with a complete OEM setup through engine swap. (ie: 5.3 LS or 5.7 TBI, etc.) That's the direction I'm going to go, it's more more work but I'm willing to do it to get the OEM performance I desire.

Just my 2 cents of limited experience on the subject. I don't know if it would be a match for you but I could obtain info on the shop in Denver that did the the successful conversions. Good luck either direction you choose to go.

Steve weim55 Colorado

[weq92f]

.
The idea that shielding could solve the sniper's major issue(s) is very interesting and one you'd Holley would be keen to implement.

I've got over 3000 miles on MSD Atomic, also w/billet dizzy. Only trouble was the IAC failed, 60 dollar parts store item.

-klb

[Orange Crate]

EFI in general needs to have the sensors grounded to the same place as the computer. I ran all of my grounds (from the sensors) back to the computer case and then grounded the case. It is extra wiring but keeps the system quiet from the EMI that liftlaw mentioned. I built my own wiring harness so it wasn't a big deal. Does the Holley kit do this? If the sensors are grounded to the block then they are "open" to interference (noise). Also as liftlaw mentioned HEI or powerful ignition could/should have the ignition wires shielded to quiet that source down also from EMI. But, yes, getting your head around a DIY EFI install can be a steep learning curve for sure, even from a kit.

[Signkutter]

I tried an Edelbrock EZ Street EFI....nightmare ...could never get it to run right...finally bit the bullet and went with an LS swap

[Orange Crate]

It would be nice to have a separate EFI message board like other forums so we could capture this information and maybe even help each other out. Today's aftermarket EFI systems are pretty good software wise and I mean stable software. How they are tuned is another story and DYI installation adds a lot of variables like I mentioned in the previous post just about grounds. Good (great) grounding practices are your best friend. The few comments here about EFI kit failure is pretty disappointing from a tech support aspect. I would expect if you buy a kit there should be decent technicians on the other end of the phone to help out with your install questions and tuning/set up. Is this the case with the Holley and Edelbrock? Do they have decent tech support?

[fdbdw]

Originally Posted by Orange Crate

It would be nice to have a separate EFI message board like other forums so we could capture this information and maybe even help each other out. Today's aftermarket EFI systems are pretty good software wise and I mean stable software. How they are tuned is another story and DYI installation adds a lot of variables like I mentioned in the previous post just about grounds. Good (great) grounding practices are your best friend. The few comments here about EFI kit failure is pretty disappointing from a tech support aspect. I would expect if you buy a kit there should be decent technicians on the other end of the phone to help out with your install questions and tuning/set up. Is this the case with the Holley and Edelbrock? Do they have decent tech support?

The technicians went through all my wiring, had me redo it, told me the pump was to high and to far from my fuel cell. After re- running my fuel lines and re- mounting my fuel pump they figured I burned up my my pump so I bought and replaced the fuel pump, ran for 2 days then pooped again. I spent countless hours on the phone with them, re-did my entire system twice, would run for a couple days then more issues. I’ve been stranded twice, never again. I’m ditching everything electrical and going mechanical.

[Steeveedee]

I worked for years in the electromagnetic engineering end of things. You wouldn't believe where EMI will go and how it will get there. That stuff is like roaches, it gets into everything. I don't know about Holley's engineering, but EMI is a tough nut to crack. I'd expect them to be electronics guys meeting with mechanical guys, with some software guys thrown in. You can't just put a piece of foil between the distributor and the rest of the system. Some people have alluded to making certain that all the grounds go back to the system, and not depend on "chassis ground". That's a major step in the right direction. On spacecraft, every system that has a power feed to it has its own ground back to the battery. Stray currents everywhere cause major havoc, otherwise.

[liftlawssuck]

Originally Posted by Orange Crate

EFI in general needs to have the sensors grounded to the same place as the computer. I ran all of my grounds (from the sensors) back to the computer case and then grounded the case. It is extra wiring but keeps the system quiet from the EMI that liftlaw mentioned. I built my own wiring harness so it wasn't a big deal. Does the Holley kit do this? If the sensors are grounded to the block then they are "open" to interference (noise). Also as liftlaw mentioned HEI or powerful ignition could/should have the ignition wires shielded to quiet that source down also from EMI. But, yes, getting your head around a DIY EFI install can be a steep learning curve for sure, even from a kit.

Totally agree. The grounds have to spot on. Holley does come with a wire harness but you need to add to it and all terminations. This is where a lot of people get in trouble. All electric is great but things have to be perfect for it to work correctly. Like good clean grounds.

Also must shout out to Holley tech support for their help. Great guys to deal with. They know about the EMI but not sure why they do anything about it.

My suggestion would be to keep it on their and either figure it out yourself or bring it to someone who knows them. I can tune a carb pretty damn good but these things take it to a whole new level. I did a 67 Firebird that has a mildly built 455 and would break the tires loose in 3rd gear after. I’d offer to play around with it for nothing if I could. It’s worth it in the end.

[fdbdw]

Originally Posted by liftlawssuck

Totally agree. The grounds have to spot on. Holley does come with a wire harness but you need to add to it and all terminations. This is where a lot of people get in trouble. All electric is great but things have to be perfect for it to work correctly. Like good clean grounds.

Also must shout out to Holley tech support for their help. Great guys to deal with. They know about the EMI but not sure why they do anything about it.

My suggestion would be to keep it on their and either figure it out yourself or bring it to someone who knows them. I can tune a carb pretty damn good but these things take it to a whole new level. I did a 67 Firebird that has a mildly built 455 and would break the tires loose in 3rd gear after. I’d offer to play around with it for nothing if I could. It’s worth it in the end.

Trust me, been through the the grounds and everything else multiple times with the guidance of Holley techs. Bottom line, if you can get this product to work for you long term then more power to ya, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze to me. Very disappointing in the product, can’t wait to get it out

[dan42]

I had a guy that works on street rods and had done a couple of them put my FItech EFI in, and I had real problems for the first month. I had an electric fuel pump mounted to the frame, and it wasn't working. We ended up putting one in the tank, and it runs great, really feel it is stronger with the EFI than it was with the carb. First start up it cranks a bit, but after that it kicks right over, great response, and it's got a little computer that I can tune it with if I want. Once you get it right, they are really nice.

[jaros44sr]

That would help, if we could get a EFI forum on our boards, or at least a link to other sources for info.

[AussieinNC]

The "Electrical" sub forum lists EFI swaps as a component thats permitted to be posted.....perhaps a sub forum listed under Electrical would be the easiest to deploy....

BTW...best practice is to always run dedicated ground feeds back to ground bus....

When I built my shop...I ran all power feeds thru EMT plus dedicated ground return wires back to the panel, along with grounding the EMT to the panel....makes certain the circuits work correctly...

[Orange Crate]

Originally Posted by AussieinNC

The "Electrical" sub forum lists EFI swaps as a component thats permitted to be posted.....perhaps a sub forum listed under Electrical would be the easiest to deploy....

Yes X2 a separate sub forum would be great, maybe a Mod will see this and agree (or not).

[liftlawssuck]

Originally Posted by fdbdw

Trust me, been through the the grounds and everything else multiple times with the guidance of Holley techs. Bottom line, if you can get this product to work for you long term then more power to ya, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze to me. Very disappointing in the product, can’t wait to get it out

Where are you running your grounds? A ground bus is the best way to go but the very least all grounds should go back to the battery. If not then they are susceptible in picking up stray voltage. I cannot stress that enough with the grounds. Grounds to chassis aren't good enough. Also shielding from the distributor is also crucial. Running wire harness near plug wires or distributor is also just as important.