What Rear End to Use?

[NeoJuice]

Hello Everyone,

I need some help to determine if I should swap out the 1980 Pontiac Trams Am rear end/10 bolt that is currently in the truck. The problem is finding all the parts to get it driveable. I need new rotors, calipers, ebrake cables, brake lines etc etc. The truck has the TCI Parabolic Leaf Spring Rear Suspension.

Problem is some of the parts are not available at retailers and some of the needed parts are not made by aftermarket manufacturers.

I thought I was being smart and thought if I couldnt find all the disc brake parts I would just buy a rear disc swap kit. After talking with Ed at http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/ he said the kit will not fit. I got the correct 3 1/8" flange at the end of the axle tube but the problem is with the brake gap.

Ed said "THIS MEASUREMENT IS FROM THE OUTBOARD SIDE OF THE AXLE TUBE FLANGE TO THE OUTBOARD SIDE OF THE AXLE SHAFT FLANGE (WHERE THE WHEEL BOLTS ON) – WE ARE LOOKING FOR 2.5 TO 2.6"

Mine is way more then that, I'm at 2 5/8" plus the thickness of the rear caliper plate ( I didnt have time to remove the rear axels) so this is a rough measurement. Apparenlty the disc brake rear ends are slightly different as read below and verified by getdiscbrakes.com

http://transamcountry.com/community/...?topic=40451.0



I'm lost on what to do because a local retailer is going to be having a sale with all the needed parts for pretty cheap then me paying even more then that to try and piece it all together.



So now the question is.....If I look for a s10 rear end, which are available pretty much at any junk yard and online kijiji/craigs list. What rear should I put in the truck? I would like to eventually run some 18-20" wheels and something with posi would be nice. Truck has origional frame under it and really if I can use the existing rear I would but I dont know if it will be possible. It's already been sand blasted and painted to match the frame.

Thank you for your time. Here is a link to my build thread for referance pictures.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=723325

[1project2many]

Centrix shows most of the parts including pads, rotors, and calipers. https://centricparts.centriccatalog....&uid=ANR&sid=0

It appears that cables are available on Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/190822088750?rmvSB=true

As far as swapping parts from another application, the answer would be to compare the original rotor hat depth with others and try to build a kit around those numbers. The S10 rear disc is different for certain:

Camaro:
https://centricparts.centriccatalog....7&i=1&uid=ANR&

Blazer 2WD:
https://centricparts.centriccatalog....7&i=1&uid=ANR&

If you want to swap rear axles the best choice may be a ZR2 optioned S10 axle. It has an 8.5" differential and is wider than the 2wd version.

[mongocanfly]

And the zr2 comes with the gov-loc diff and 3.73 gears..if you are willing to step outside the gm family I think the 8.8 expolerer is another popular rear
on Eds rear measurement can you run a spacer on the axle end to get your measurement down to 2.5? Wouldnt need to be but about 1/8-3/16" thick...

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

And the zr2 comes with the gov-loc diff and 3.73 gears..if you are willing to step outside the gm family I think the 8.8 expolerer is another popular rear
on Eds rear measurement can you run a spacer on the axle end to get your measurement down to 2.5? Wouldnt need to be but about 1/8-3/16" thick...

I was told the zr2 is a good choice. Ultimately I would like to keep the TA rear. If the weather is decent this weekend I'll check out the local pick & pull

[Russell Ashley]

I have an 80 TA rear in my 57 truck. When I got the rear the calipers, rotors, and all of the other brake parts had been lost. I bought a disk brake kit from SpeedWay Motors to get the main parts but also the small parts like fasteners and everything else needed. It is the perfect fit for my truck and centers the wheels in the fenders.

[la hi]

I put a 95 camaro rear end with positraction, 321 gears and I have a problem. The rear end is two wide and the tires will not fit into the wheel wells. Cost about $400.

[dsraven]

if you plan on more power at some point and/or tire roasting then the 8.8 ford is a better choice because it is stronger. they are available from an explorer but will have the centre section offset to one side. if you already have some stuff mounted under your truck then that may interfere. there is an 8.8 in a mustang with a centred center section though. they have drum or disc brake set ups. you would have to cut the old suspension brackets off so you have a bare axle tube and then weld on your own mounts for springs, available at a spring/trailer axle shop for cheap. you would also have to redrill the axle flanges for your wheel bolt pattern and install chevy sized wheel studs but that isn't a huge deal either. if you get an 89.8 from somewhere try to get the rear part of the driveshaft as well because they are a flat flange yoke that mates to a flat flange on the driveshaft which houses ther ujoint. there is a regualr yoke availlable for a normal chevy style ujoint I believe. also grab the park brake cables and their centering link.
one thing to watch for is the size of the disc rotors so you will get the right bias front to rear. also you need a disc/disc master cylinder if you go the disc front and rear.
there is really nothing wrong with drum rear brakes if you already have drum set up on the camaro axle. the brake bias is more brakes on the front than the rear anyway.
I went the same route as you, got an s10 rear with discs etc, mocked it up, found it was too narrow for my likings. sure, a huge offset wheel could be used with more stress on the wheel bearing and axle. research found they are not as strong as I thought. sold it.
went to the camaro diff. had the disc brakes etc.mocked it up then researched and found they aren't any stronger than the s10. sold it.
looked for a 12 bolt truck axle from late '60's. found not that readily available and also usually only have drum brakes and need a total rebuilt. was stuck on disc rear. scrapped that idea.
cruised through pick n pull with a tape measure. went with the 8.8 from an explorer. 3.73 gears, posi, disc brakes, big axles, easy park brake connections, offset wasn't a big deal for me. will re-bearing it later when the truck is near completion. redrilled the axles and discs for the chevy pattern and installed same sized studs as the front. would have gone with the mustang 8.8 but didn't find one that day.width is really close.
for more info on the 8.8 go to

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech...8_8-axle.shtml

there is a full article on the 8.8, what it came in, how to mod for hp, how guys take the offset and narrow the housing on one side for a centered section using stock axles etc etc. if you go to the home page there is more info

if you are doing it on the cheap, like me, then a trip to pick n pull may reveal the camaro parts you need for stock rear disc as well. maybe need a whole new axle but that won't break the bank if you have time to cruise the yard, or craigslist or local parts store classified board. grab the master cylinder as well as the park brake cables etc

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by la hi

I put a 95 camaro rear end with positraction, 321 gears and I have a problem. The rear end is two wide and the tires will not fit into the wheel wells. Cost about $400.

Wow that is a pretty wide rear diff. What you going to swap it out with? Get it shortened?

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Russell Ashley

I have an 80 TA rear in my 57 truck. When I got the rear the calipers, rotors, and all of the other brake parts had been lost. I bought a disk brake kit from SpeedWay Motors to get the main parts but also the small parts like fasteners and everything else needed. It is the perfect fit for my truck and centers the wheels in the fenders.

Do you remember what kit you bought?

Thank you,

[Russell Ashley]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

Do you remember what kit you bought?

Thank you,

It was Speedway Motors kit number 91031924. Cost was $429. The hose kit also came from Speedway and it was p/n 617-8563 @$39.99. I believe there was also adapters to make the emergency brake cables connect to the arms on the calipers but can't find any p/n for those.

It wasn't cheap but my truck definitely has good brakes now.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Russell Ashley

It was Speedway Motors kit number 91031924. Cost was $429. The hose kit also came from Speedway and it was p/n 617-8563 @$39.99. I believe there was also adapters to make the emergency brake cables connect to the arms on the calipers but can't find any p/n for those.

It wasn't cheap but my truck definitely has good brakes now.

I'll check it out. Thank you for the information. If I have any other questions I'll let you know. Do you have any pictures you can show me?

[dsraven]

maybe you can swap in an s10 rear disc onto your Camaro diff. check this out. dunno if it totally relates but talks about 2nd gen swap to s10 discs. should be able to find some s10's at pick n pull and maybe even grab the whole thing for parts. it also talks about ebrake connections and what backing plates to use for what, eg 4x4 or 2wd right and left applications. maybe worth a look. good luck.

http://nastyz28.com/threads/blazer-s10-rear-disc.94303/

[Russell Ashley]

Originally Posted by NeoJuice

I'll check it out. Thank you for the information. If I have any other questions I'll let you know. Do you have any pictures you can show me?

Nothing up close, and truck is 250 miles away so can't take any now. Here's a couple.

[Port&PolishMan]

NeoJuice : First Off If Your taking Measurements like that You would have to
do Both ( Inside & Outside ) Moves with the Tape - as Your Loosing 1/16 at Least
due too End of the Tape .. Movement . Have to do 2 Measurements Add them then Divide by 2 . .

Real Choice is to be Way more Accurate - use - Better Measuring Equipment .
That's First Thing .
Second Thing on Wheels - Most Vendors of Wheels will have a Disc Brake - Fitting
Template .. for Down Loading - which usually Pattern to be Applied to Thin
Cardboard or Thin Under Layment Wood . . for Cutting out - Fitting Tool ..

It would be much more Accurate to Wire Bush then Measure & Cut pc. Wood
see which - One Fits . . Just saying as many get in Trouble Not being Accurate Enough is all .

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Port&PolishMan

NeoJuice : First Off If Your taking Measurements like that You would have to
do Both ( Inside & Outside ) Moves with the Tape - as Your Loosing 1/16 at Least
due too End of the Tape .. Movement . Have to do 2 Measurements Add them then Divide by 2 . .

Real Choice is to be Way more Accurate - use - Better Measuring Equipment .
That's First Thing .
Second Thing on Wheels - Most Vendors of Wheels will have a Disc Brake - Fitting
Template .. for Down Loading - which usually Pattern to be Applied to Thin
Cardboard or Thin Under Layment Wood . . for Cutting out - Fitting Tool ..

It would be much more Accurate to Wire Bush then Measure & Cut pc. Wood
see which - One Fits . . Just saying as many get in Trouble Not being Accurate Enough is all .

Port&Polishman,

Thank for the information. Really what I need to do is pull the axles and get a proper measurement. As shown I'm roughly 2 5/8" plus the thickness of the calliper backing plate witch attaches to the axle flange. I'm sure it's at least 1/8" thick. I'm finding out from Ed is I can use a spacer of some sort. Or my measurements could be completely off. See around here there are not a lot of old cars left at the pick n pull, it all never stuff.

[dsraven]

have you seen this?

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...l_measurements

maybe interesting for you to choose a donor from. there are other sites as well.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by dsraven

have you seen this?

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...l_measurements

maybe interesting for you to choose a donor from. there are other sites as well.

Thank you.

[Shady Rascal]

For what it's worth, I went to Rockauto and cataloged the brake parts for your current rearend.

They shows rotors, calipers, brake pads, and park brake cables completely available.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Shady Rascal

For what it's worth, I went to Rockauto and cataloged the brake parts for your current rearend.

They shows rotors, calipers, brake pads, and park brake cables completely available.

I took and look and see that. The only problem I think is the rotors don't come with ebrake assembly. I'll do some further digging.

[Shady Rascal]

Is the e-brake not built into the calipers themselves ? I've never laid hands on one of these, but google image search looks like the calipers have a lever on them for the cable to attach to.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by Shady Rascal

Is the e-brake not built into the calipers themselves ? I've never laid hands on one of these, but google image search looks like the calipers have a lever on them for the cable to attach to.

I've seen those images on a google search. The problem is most aftermarket parts you can get dont come with the bracket and spring. They expect you to move it over from your old hardware. Now........I think some of the drum to brake kits out there use the 1980 cadillac Seville actually "do" come with the brackets and springs.

I have to do a little more research on this though because I showed the guy at napa today and he couldn't tell me if they were the same part number or not this article says they are the same.

http://nastyz28.com/threads/rod-mc.213484/

[NeoJuice]

Here is another article.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...0-81-rear.html

[1project2many]

Have you looked at any of the links I posted? Centric calipers are listed with the spring and bracket. The park brake is built into the caliper so there are no separate shoes. They have several different styles of rotors and pads so you can choose a combination you like. Centric also has a very good tech line. I've used them for a number of issues. They're honest imo. I have been told "Our products won't do what you want" which is very rare to hear these days.

King caliper is a rebuilder close to me. I source King parts for many of our fleet vehicles. I have spoken directly with the engineers there for specific applications. I have sent calipers to them that they do not list in a catalog and they have rebuilt them and sent them back. Their web site isn't much to look at but their brake work is good.
http://www.kaliper.com/

IIRC (it's been many years since I went down this road) Cadillac switched some models to metric fasteners in the caliper while Pontiac, Buick, and Olds took longer. So the bleeder and the banjo bolt were metric in some but not all. You could bolt one caliper in place of the other but you'd have to source a new banjo bolt.

FWIW I would not attempt to put larger rear brakes on a TF truck without the truck having a better weight balance. The front axle carries a much higher percentage of the weight than the rear and putting in highly effective rear brakes can increase the tendency for the rear wheels to skid in a stop. This is bad. Locked rears turn your pickup into a top ready to spin at a time when you need directional stability.

[NeoJuice]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Have you looked at any of the links I posted? Centric calipers are listed with the spring and bracket. The park brake is built into the caliper so there are no separate shoes. They have several different styles of rotors and pads so you can choose a combination you like. Centric also has a very good tech line. I've used them for a number of issues. They're honest imo. I have been told "Our products won't do what you want" which is very rare to hear these days.

King caliper is a rebuilder close to me. I source King parts for many of our fleet vehicles. I have spoken directly with the engineers there for specific applications. I have sent calipers to them that they do not list in a catalog and they have rebuilt them and sent them back. Their web site isn't much to look at but their brake work is good.
http://www.kaliper.com/

IIRC (it's been many years since I went down this road) Cadillac switched some models to metric fasteners in the caliper while Pontiac, Buick, and Olds took longer. So the bleeder and the banjo bolt were metric in some but not all. You could bolt one caliper in place of the other but you'd have to source a new banjo bolt.

FWIW I would not attempt to put larger rear brakes on a TF truck without the truck having a better weight balance. The front axle carries a much higher percentage of the weight than the rear and putting in highly effective rear brakes can increase the tendency for the rear wheels to skid in a stop. This is bad. Locked rears turn your pickup into a top ready to spin at a time when you need directional stability.

Yes I did checkout the links to centricparts. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what I can find out. I was hoping to try and source something locally instead of having to ship across border and deal with duty, exchange rates and so forth. Thank you for all your help and I will update once I know more.