The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > General Truck Forums > All 4x4 Tech & Off Roading

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-20-2018, 10:05 AM   #1
CG
BlahBlahBlah
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Monroe, Wa.
Posts: 15,875
Manual trans question

I know close to zero about any 4speed trans for the 67-72 trucks except for the stock versions only. What would be the go to later model trans that would bolt up to the small block and 205. I see a lot of numbers, but just when I think I know what's what ... I don't haha!
CG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:20 AM   #2
mongocanfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 9,311
Re: Manual trans question

I think from the old sm465 4spd they went to the nv4500 5spd
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2013 GMC Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:26 AM   #3
Mike C
Registered User
 
Mike C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 7,135
Re: Manual trans question

With factory parts, the SM465 is the only 4 speed manual that bolts up to a 205.
__________________
44 Willys MB
52 M38A1
64 Corvette Coupe
68 Camaro 'vert LT1 & TH700
69 Z/28 355 12.6's @110
69 Chevy Short Step 4 1/2"/7" drop
72 Jimmy 4WD 4spd 4" & 35's
02 GMC 2500HD 4x4 Duramax
Mike C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 11:02 AM   #4
CG
BlahBlahBlah
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Monroe, Wa.
Posts: 15,875
Re: Manual trans question

Ok, interesting. So the NV 4500 would be the best upgrade, but would need some sort of adaptor or change in shaft/coupling somewhere to work with the 205.
CG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 12:17 PM   #5
mongocanfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 9,311
Re: Manual trans question

Advance adapters makes a kit to do a nv4500/205...but neither the trans or adapter are cheap..
I've got 2 nv's and love em..
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2013 GMC Z71..daily driver

Last edited by mongocanfly; 11-20-2018 at 12:25 PM.
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 02:32 PM   #6
sweetk30
selective wrench turner guy
 
sweetk30's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
Posts: 2,101
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
With factory parts, the SM465 is the only 4 speed manual that bolts up to a 205.
NOT true . there was the rare car manual that went to the 205 . but there rare . only read of a few and personally seen 1 my self .


but yes the most super common is sm465 trans with 205 .

the replacment was in the 90's with the new nv4500 with overdrive . but that was never a 205 behind it in gm combo . but with the correct parts it can be a bolt on combo .
__________________
77-k30lb BIG truck build .
87-k30lb budget beater build .
85-k30lb the plow machine build .
85-c10sb summer fun toy .
-----------------------------
HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had .

EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great.
sweetk30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 11:35 PM   #7
Zoomad75
K5Camper
 
Zoomad75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pueblo, CO
Posts: 1,365
Re: Manual trans question

A late round pattern 205 bolts up to a nv4500 without the uber-expensive AA adaptor. Plus you don't have to chop 4" off of the nv4500 to make it work either.

The a883 od trans was the oddball car trans that was sold in the Squares. It was basically a 3 speed manual with OD. Wasn't sure is was available in the 4wd trucks though.
__________________
Rob Z.
1975 K5 350/465/205/D44/12b 4" lift on 35's- RIP
1991 K5 5.3L/700r4/241/D44/14b FWC Camper
Zoomad75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 11:41 PM   #8
74CustomK20
Registered User
 
74CustomK20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Tell City, IN
Posts: 632
Re: Manual trans question

Zoomad it was, but only in light duty's as it's not nearly as strong as the 465
__________________
Big Nate
Carp. Local 224. Buy made in the USA!
96 F250 Supercab 4x4 7.3
74CustomK20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 01:40 AM   #9
'63GENIII
Senior Member
 
'63GENIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Carlos, Ca.
Posts: 2,426
Re: Manual trans question

The AA bell housing for the 4500 is a piece that they are pretty proud of too. It lets you move the slave cylinder to the familiar driver's side location.

Early 4500s had the lower 1st gear and non synchro reverse. Later has the higher 1st (less granny like) and the synchro reverse.

Personally I felt that the 465 was a stronger transmission than the NV4500....but.... the extra gear won me over in the end. It hasn't broken with the abuse I throw at it on occasion and the shifting?What an upgrade! Man, compared to the 465 its like the difference between a new Porsche and a '60 VW bug.

I ran a divorced 205 out of a Power Wagon. Mainly because I was too lazy to find the later round style 205 and I had the divorced one in the garage.
__________________
Chris


'63 k15 long step
Vortec 7.4 - L29 Blackbear tune, Five 0 Motorsports injectors, Chris Straub Cam, NV4500, divorced 205
52" front and 63" rear spring swap
D44 / 14bff - disc axles
Milemarker 9K and 10.5K hydraulic winches

63" & B52 Spring Install http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ng+swap+thread


NV4500 Reverse Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=reverse+build

L29 - 7.4 Vortec Build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...&highlight=L29
'63GENIII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 08:14 AM   #10
57NAPCO
FBD guy
 
57NAPCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Texas/Maine
Posts: 1,538
Re: Manual trans question

Just curious, gear vendors was not an option?


Quote:
Originally Posted by '63GENIII View Post
The AA bell housing for the 4500 is a piece that they are pretty proud of too. It lets you move the slave cylinder to the familiar driver's side location.

Early 4500s had the lower 1st gear and non synchro reverse. Later has the higher 1st (less granny like) and the synchro reverse.

Personally I felt that the 465 was a stronger transmission than the NV4500....but.... the extra gear won me over in the end. It hasn't broken with the abuse I throw at it on occasion and the shifting?What an upgrade! Man, compared to the 465 its like the difference between a new Porsche and a '60 VW bug.

I ran a divorced 205 out of a Power Wagon. Mainly because I was too lazy to find the later round style 205 and I had the divorced one in the garage.
57NAPCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 01:48 PM   #11
sweetk30
selective wrench turner guy
 
sweetk30's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
Posts: 2,101
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomad75 View Post
A late round pattern 205 bolts up to a nv4500 without the uber-expensive AA adaptor. Plus you don't have to chop 4" off of the nv4500 to make it work either.

The a883 od trans was the oddball car trans that was sold in the Squares. It was basically a 3 speed manual with OD. Wasn't sure is was available in the 4wd trucks though.
if i recall 100% you still need to swap to a short 32 spline input gear over the gm round 6 long input . otherwise the spacer is still needed to let it bolt up from the length of the input gear .
__________________
77-k30lb BIG truck build .
87-k30lb budget beater build .
85-k30lb the plow machine build .
85-c10sb summer fun toy .
-----------------------------
HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had .

EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great.
sweetk30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 10:37 PM   #12
SunSoaked
Senior Member
 
SunSoaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yuma Arizona
Posts: 1,147
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetk30 View Post
if i recall 100% you still need to swap to a short 32 spline input gear over the gm round 6 long input . otherwise the spacer is still needed to let it bolt up from the length of the input gear .
True statement Sweetk30. I have two of them. 1.625 thick.
Attached Images
 
SunSoaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 12:15 AM   #13
Zoomad75
K5Camper
 
Zoomad75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Pueblo, CO
Posts: 1,365
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetk30 View Post
if i recall 100% you still need to swap to a short 32 spline input gear over the gm round 6 long input . otherwise the spacer is still needed to let it bolt up from the length of the input gear .
Pretty easy fix with a phone call to ORD.
__________________
Rob Z.
1975 K5 350/465/205/D44/12b 4" lift on 35's- RIP
1991 K5 5.3L/700r4/241/D44/14b FWC Camper
Zoomad75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 12:45 PM   #14
sweetk30
selective wrench turner guy
 
sweetk30's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
Posts: 2,101
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomad75 View Post
Pretty easy fix with a phone call to ORD.
yes thats true sir . just clearing up the not stock for stock bolt up no adapter thing for others searching later .
__________________
77-k30lb BIG truck build .
87-k30lb budget beater build .
85-k30lb the plow machine build .
85-c10sb summer fun toy .
-----------------------------
HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had .

EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great.
sweetk30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 12:55 PM   #15
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: louisville, ky
Posts: 434
Re: Manual trans question

As far as I have been able to figure, the A833 was on ‘80-‘85 2wd half tons only. I’ve been looking for one for a street rod project...

The best truck manual trans I’ve ever had was in a ‘76 Scout II 2wd (yes). I think it was a B/W T19 close ratio. Full synchro, perfect for a 1/2 ton daily driver. But no sensible way to adapt it for use on a Chev 4wd that I could ever figure out
zac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 01:14 PM   #16
B. W.
Senior Member
 
B. W.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Bigfork, Montana
Posts: 1,130
Re: Manual trans question

The 833 was in some 4x4 square bodies. Had a cast iron case vs aluminum.
B. W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 02:12 PM   #17
sweetk30
selective wrench turner guy
 
sweetk30's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: horseheads,ny rust belt
Posts: 2,101
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by B. W. View Post
The 833 was in some 4x4 square bodies. Had a cast iron case vs aluminum.
yep friend of mine had a 6.2/833/208/k10/short step side one years ago .
__________________
77-k30lb BIG truck build .
87-k30lb budget beater build .
85-k30lb the plow machine build .
85-c10sb summer fun toy .
-----------------------------
HOLLEY SNIPER efi = worst case of p.i.t.a i ever had .

EDELBROCK pro flo 4 = best deal going so far . love my setup works great.
sweetk30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 02:40 PM   #18
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: louisville, ky
Posts: 434
Re: Manual trans question

You know what year it was? I've never even seen one...
zac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 02:52 PM   #19
mongocanfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 9,311
Re: Manual trans question

I've never heard of the a833 in a chevy truck either...not saying it didn't happen...just never seen it....when I google it ,it shows it to be a side shifter....and belonging to dodges...then after some reading I saw on hamb where they said Chevy used some dodge trans in some trucks and vans...and this.....http://www.classicjunkyard.com/new_process_a833.htm
My 86 had a sm465
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2013 GMC Z71..daily driver

Last edited by mongocanfly; 11-23-2018 at 03:00 PM.
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 12:05 AM   #20
95 S_Trucker
Senior Member
 
95 S_Trucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 2,261
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongocanfly View Post
I've never heard of the a833 in a chevy truck either...not saying it didn't happen...just never seen it....when I google it ,it shows it to be a side shifter....and belonging to dodges...then after some reading I saw on hamb where they said Chevy used some dodge trans in some trucks and vans...and this.....http://www.classicjunkyard.com/new_process_a833.htm
My 86 had a sm465
There are a bunch that came from the factory. I work on an 86 k10 with one regularly.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=670789
__________________
-99 K2500 LS CCSB 7.4
-11 GMC 2500HD SLE CCSB 6.0
-96 C3500 HD 7.4 NV4500 Rollback
-85 K10 5.7 700r4
-78 K10 5.7 4 Speed
-90 ZR1 5.7 6 Speed
-62 Lincoln Sedan 430 Auto
-61 Lincoln Convertable 430 Auto


85 Project: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=368864

78 Big10 Project: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=383629

96 Project: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=614515
95 S_Trucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 12:35 AM   #21
mongocanfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 9,311
Re: Manual trans question

yeah...I need to get out more I guess...haha
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2013 GMC Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 02:02 AM   #22
burnin oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 1,117
Re: Manual trans question

The Saginaw 4spd car transmission was also an option. I have seen it once. That said the 3spd and 4spd saginaws shared a common case and main shaft. Different gears and side cover/shifter. So if you find a base model 6 cylinder column shift you can rob the 3spd and rebuild it installing the 4spd gears on the original main shaft. neither are terribly expensive and pretty cheap to rebuild if it breaks. The 1974 or 1977 chevy service manual actually has pictures of all the factory adapter plates and which transmissions and transfer cases that they fit. Obviously these are pre round pattern, 5spd, or alum transfer cases.

For fun I have run (still own it sitting in the barn) a 465 to NP203 factory adapter. that was a real nice setup if you lived in an area that had alot of black ice during the winter.
burnin oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 11:40 AM   #23
Travisarmenta
Registered User
 
Travisarmenta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Woodbridge Va
Posts: 403
Re: Manual trans question

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnin oil View Post
The Saginaw 4spd car transmission was also an option. I have seen it once. That said the 3spd and 4spd saginaws shared a common case and main shaft. Different gears and side cover/shifter. So if you find a base model 6 cylinder column shift you can rob the 3spd and rebuild it installing the 4spd gears on the original main shaft. neither are terribly expensive and pretty cheap to rebuild if it breaks. The 1974 or 1977 chevy service manual actually has pictures of all the factory adapter plates and which transmissions and transfer cases that they fit. Obviously these are pre round pattern, 5spd, or alum transfer cases.

For fun I have run (still own it sitting in the barn) a 465 to NP203 factory adapter. that was a real nice setup if you lived in an area that had alot of black ice during the winter.
I have been trying to figure this out as well. I picked up a 70 SB 4x4 but it has the M330 in it, with the 205, since it has the factory (dated 12/30/1969) NP205 it must be the 10 spline input shaft. But can't figure out if that is the case.
Travisarmenta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 10:28 PM   #24
burnin oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Eastern TN
Posts: 1,117
Re: Manual trans question

I am unsure what trans you have. The old manual I have lists all the transmissions by MM. The only 3 speed trans that I know of called a HD was a Muncie which I never saw hooked to a transfer case.

The only sure fire way to gaurentee what you have for an input gear is to pull it out and have a look. It should be a 10 spline. supposedly all the old manuals had a 10 spline input gear until the round pattern NP205s game out in the 80s. It has been a long time since I looked at a factory 3spd in a 4x4 and I do recall one application using a gear on the outside of the case for the input. I want to say it was a Dana 20 transfercase.

If this was me I wouldnt waste my time swapping any of the 3spd transmissions into your truck. The 465 4spd is a beast and almost impossible to break. it was used in 1/2t up to a C50 or C60 series trucks. All the internals were identical other than the input gear and rear yoke. These are so solid that they are basically give aways at the junk yard and usually found with the trans and tcase still bolted together. Alot of times you can score them both for under $500.

If I was to spend the money it would be the NV4500. The extra gear comes in real nice on the interstate. The only downside is the low granny gear. If you dont need it then you are stuck with a 3sp and OD gear. I personally use the granny gear all the time but I also live on a mountain.

Usually GM was really nice to us and used the adapter plates to adjust the overall lentgh of the drivetrain which allows you to swap the trans and use the same driveshafts as long as the transfer case stayed the same. Cross your fingers on that.
burnin oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 07:20 AM   #25
D13
Registered User
 
D13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Memphis MI
Posts: 1,770
Re: Manual trans question

A-833 was available in 2wd or 4wd. AS far as I can tell all the 2wd were aluminum, 4wd could be either. I have a 2wd, 27 spline output and a an aluminum 4wd with the factory 208 adapter and 32 spline output shaft. If you find one be sure to get the shifter, they are Hurst Competition Plus but the mounting and linkage is unique, uses Muncie size bushings vs larger Mopar parts. The Mopar car shifter mounting bracket will not clear the 4wd adapter. Van applications have a relocated shifter - different tali housing to move the shifter up and forward. The bell housings are kind of unique, the bearing retainer is bigger than a Muncie so they don't fit early bells. The trans may have Moper, Chevy, or both mounting patters, and the bells that work appear to have that same combination. My hydro clutch bell is drilled for both patterns and the unused holes have plastic plugs from the factory. My mech clutch bell is also double patterned, I think all the 86-87's are, and some of the 82's are Chrysler pattern. Oh, ath aluminum cases are known to wear the countershaft bore, requiring the case to be bushed.

GM used them behind nothing more powerful than a 305 or 6.2 diesel. The gear swap to get overdrive changes the loads inside the trans. Steep first gear creates a lot of torque on the output in low, and the overdrive make for high shaft speeds and high input loads in top gear. Dodge used them behind 318's which were, at that point, about gutless too.

Now, if only my knees wern't bad - these are on my spring garage sale list lol.
__________________
1987 2 ton
1982 250/TH350 beater in progress
Dad's 1981 3/4 L6 3 on tree posi and no options, awaiting restoration or scrapping
Plus a mess o' tractors

Last edited by D13; 11-30-2018 at 07:27 AM.
D13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com