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Old 06-10-2017, 01:35 PM   #101
HO455
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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Hi guys,

I have a quick question involving window channel rust pitting. First off should i cut out any rust pitting I see even if it is very shallow. I have attached some pictures for You to see. There are obvious holes I will be cutting out and replacing with fresh metal. So should I also cut out every area where there is rust pits?

Thanks guys

Paul
I wouldn't cut and replace all of the pitted areas. I would treat them with Ospho or Rust Mort. They are phosphoric acid products that will neutralize the remaining rust. Then seal the area with your epxoy primer to keep oxygen out. The back side of those areas and the back of your welds are more problematic. They are hard to see let alone treat. Any way you can apply some POR15 or other rust product will be good insurance. I used an undercoating sprayer with a flex wand to coat the void spaces on my Burban.

http://www.ospho.com

Nice work in a far away place. How did you find the truck?
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:26 PM   #102
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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I wouldn't cut and replace all of the pitted areas. I would treat them with Ospho or Rust Mort. They are phosphoric acid products that will neutralize the remaining rust. Then seal the area with your epxoy primer to keep oxygen out. The back side of those areas and the back of your welds are more problematic. They are hard to see let alone treat. Any way you can apply some POR15 or other rust product will be good insurance. I used an undercoating sprayer with a flex wand to coat the void spaces on my Burban.

http://www.ospho.com

Nice work in a far away place. How did you find the truck?
Thanks for the reply. So I cut out the areas that were very thin or had holes in them, as you can see in the last photos. There were a couple areas of small pits I cleaned out fully and just added a couple tacks to in order to fill up. Im not sure if the heat form those tacks would burnt he paint on the other side. I was actually surprised to see that the rust areas I cut out still had fresh paint on the back sides.
I am hoping that I might be able to get to the back side of the welds with the paint gun when i spray the epoxy. I know I cant get to it directly but maybe enough over spray to cover the new welds/metal. UNless I can get a spray can with epoxy and get a hose on it to stick in the hard to reach areas. Not sure if it would work but maybe worth trying.

Found the truck online in Germany. I payed way too much for it though. Over here these trucks are not a dime a dozen like in the US so the price goes up. But I have to say overall the truck is in good shape. The interior has perfect original paints as well as the back window. So rust or rot is not an issue. The floor pans are in perfect shape. The bed appears to be in great shape as well.

While stripping the firewall I found some original coding. I believe it says 619, not sure what that is, maybe a paint code?

Here is a pic of the back window frame paint.

I am planning on putting the cab on its back. Any advice or anything to worry about laying the cab on its back? I am going to lay it on a pallet with some cardboard and foam for padding.

Thanks again for the advice

Paul
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:00 PM   #103
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Well the upside of paying too much over there is that someone may pay you way too much for it if you ever sell it. The cryptic numbers on vehicles usually have to do with what engine or accessories the vehicle gets as it travels down the assembly line. I don't have any experience with your year truck but I haven't have any issues with earlier trucks laying the cab on its back. Just have lots of help. I posted some information about how I sprayed the voids on my Burban thread. See the WMB thread below.
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:38 AM   #104
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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Well the upside of paying too much over there is that someone may pay you way too much for it if you ever sell it. The cryptic numbers on vehicles usually have to do with what engine or accessories the vehicle gets as it travels down the assembly line. I don't have any experience with your year truck but I haven't have any issues with earlier trucks laying the cab on its back. Just have lots of help. I posted some information about how I sprayed the voids on my Burban thread. See the WMB thread below.

Interesting info, thank you. Ill check your thread out, thanks again for the tips.

Paul
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:23 PM   #105
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Hey guys,

Small update. I spent about 8 hours stripping the underside of my cab to get it ready for epoxy primer, man that was a lot of nit picking to get every nook and cranny sanded and cleaned. I layed down 3 coats of Standox epoxy primer, let it dry for 2 days then sprayed 2 coats of Herculiner. The first coat of Herculiner took almost 7 hours to dry, I think I layed it down a bit to thick the first coat. But nonetheless it came out nice after the second coat. To be honest I kind of wanted to leave it in the epoxy cause it looked so smooth, but thinking about long term protection I went through with the undercoating. Next Step now is to strip the rest of the cab to get it ready for epoxy. I will have the dash and hard to reach places sand blasted, but then use paint stripper and sand paper to strip the rest of it.

Till next time guys.

Paul
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:50 AM   #106
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Hey guys, a small update and some questions regarding oil canning on the roof vs panel flexing.

I have stripped the cab down to bare steal, welded the rear cab seam, drip rails and rear molding holes. The only place where the metal sunk in due to heat from welding was on the passenger side next to the welded body seam. I have already pulled that out, it was in about 1/32". In the pictures you will see where there are some low spots and some high spots all mark "L" and "H" for high and low. I also marked where the roof is oil canning. When I push on the those spots it pops in and comes right out, it does not stay pushed in. Then there are two spots (passenger side front) where I can push on the roof and it will flex in to touch the inner roof panel but zero oil canning.

The low spots are not major dents and could easily be skim coated but I want to get the oil canning out which should take care of the highs and lows hopefully resulting in not needing any or maybe a see through skim coat of filler.

Then below the rear window back panel you can see in the pictures where all the highs are. In between those highs the panel has some flex to it but no oil canning. I am hoping my shrinking disc that I ordered can take care of those high spots and tighten up the waves on the back panel.

So my question is in regard to the panel flex and oil canning on the roof.

1. Should I worry about the panel flexing on the right front roof or is that normal? The center of the roof is very stiff with zero flex. Should the entire roof be this way or is there a brace under that section?

2. Is it bad to leave any oil canning on the roof if the metal is not floppy or stays pushed in? My guess is that you want to remove all oil canning because that is a sign that the metal is not actually in the shape it should be.

Let me know what you guys think my next move should be. Pics below.

Thanks

Paul
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:22 AM   #107
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

You've gone this far, won't take long to fix the oil canning now compared to how long it will take if you want to go back and fix it later if you ever decide to do so.

Plus if you don't, it will bug you the rest of your life that you didn't!!

Or, at some point you just have to say, "Enough, No one will ever see it up on the roof anyway, time to move on to the next phase"

My guess regardless, it will still be better than it came from the factory.

It really comes down to what can you live with? How perfect does something have to be?

Enjoy,
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:29 AM   #108
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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You've gone this far, won't take long to fix the oil canning now compared to how long it will take if you want to go back and fix it later if you ever decide to do so.

Plus if you don't, it will bug you the rest of your life that you didn't!!

Or, at some point you just have to say, "Enough, No one will ever see it up on the roof anyway, time to move on to the next phase"

My guess regardless, it will still be better than it came from the factory.

It really comes down to what can you live with? How perfect does something have to be?

Enjoy,
I completely agree and my mind set with this build is. Of not cut any corners. I Don't care how long it takes or how much work. Just want to do it right. I guessed I asked a question I already had an answer too.

But what about the flexible part of the roof. It doesn't oil can it's jUst a bit loose you could say. It doesn't fal in on its own. I need to compress the roof. I don't see any high spots in that area so I'm not sure how to tighten that up. I guess I will start fixing the oil canning and see what happens to the rest of the metal after that.

In the end I will get everything as good as I possibly can. I can't do more than that.

Thanks

Paul
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:16 AM   #109
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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You've gone this far, won't take long to fix the oil canning now compared to how long it will take if you want to go back and fix it later if you ever decide to do so.

Plus if you don't, it will bug you the rest of your life that you didn't!!

Or, at some point you just have to say, "Enough, No one will ever see it up on the roof anyway, time to move on to the next phase"

My guess regardless, it will still be better than it came from the factory.

It really comes down to what can you live with? How perfect does something have to be?

Enjoy,
I completely agree and my mind set with this build is to not cut any corners. I Don't care how long it takes or how much work. Just want to do it right. I guessed I asked a question I already had an answer too.

But what about the flexible part of the roof. It doesn't oil can it's jUst a bit loose you could say. It doesn't fal in on its own. I need to compress the roof. I don't see any high spots in that area so I'm not sure how to tighten that up. I guess I will start fixing the oil canning and see what happens to the rest of the metal after that.

In the end I will get everything as good as I possibly can. I can't do more than that.

Thanks

Paul

Last edited by 44boggers; 07-16-2017 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:50 PM   #110
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

REALLY nice work. Keep posting...
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:10 PM   #111
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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REALLY nice work. Keep posting...
Thanks buddy. Trying my best.

Anyone have any idea what the discoloration of the metal is on top of the roof. It almost looks stained . I took original paint off the top of the roof.

Thanks

Paul
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:27 PM   #112
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

alright guys, metal work is a lot harder than you think when you dont know what youre doing, or your teaching yourself as you go. So I went from a roof that had some good amount of oil canning and low spots, to a complete **** show from the work I did. I took a break and thought it through a bit and started to figure out how to actually move the metal where I want it to go. I got rid of 80 percent of the oil canning and most of the low spots but also created a big low spot in the process. But at least now I have a much better understanding of how to move the metal where I need it to go. I have been using the stud puller to bring the low spots out which I dont really like because you are left with a lot of tiny little "high spots" and its not so easy to create a 100 percent smooth panel, well at least my skill level cant at the moment. But at least I am making good progress and any low spot i have is .023" or less, so about 1/64" low. So nothing extreme. My biggest goal is to get rid of the oil canning. But I have run out of time as I am going to New Zealand tomorrow for 6 weeks and I needed get the cab in epoxy since everything was stripped down to bare metal. I spent easily around 20 hours between stripping the entire cab to bare metal and working the roof. I probably could have left a lot of the orignal paint and scuffed it and then epoxied but I figured I have gone this far into the build I might as well make sure all of the metal is clean.

So today I finally got 3 coats of Standox epoxy on the exterior. This is my first time running a paint gun so that is a learning process. (well I did the underside of the cab before, so this is my second time using a gun)

Overall I think everything laid down well, no runs and it seemed to lay down flat. The only thing i saw was that the roof seemed to have a rough finish than the sides and back of the cab. Maybe its overspray that fell into the epoxy or my technique is off. i need to research that a bit. But like I said the sides and back of the cab laid down very smooth.

When I get back from new zealand I will finish the roof so all the low spots are gone along with the rest of the oil canning. Then onto completely finishing the firewall with final base and clear to I can put the cab back on the frame before the winter hits in the end of october.

Any insight on the dry spray on the roof would be helpful.

Thanks guys

Paul
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:32 PM   #113
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Couple more pics with the epoxy. You can see on the roof some tiger striping. It actually isnt there anymore now that everything is dry, but it still has that dry spray feel. It doesnt really look dry just feels a bit rough.
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:00 AM   #114
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Looks to me, you got the level of perfection wanted, learned something in the process and can now help others in the future, can't ask for anything more!

"Doing your own thing in your own time, you should be proud" (Easy Rider)

Enjoy,
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:40 AM   #115
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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Looks to me, you got the level of perfection wanted, learned something in the process and can now help others in the future, can't ask for anything more!

"Doing your own thing in your own time, you should be proud" (Easy Rider)

Enjoy,
This is def. a learning process. I am excited to see my level of metal skill by the end of the build, or at least my knowledge of moving metal. Other than the passenger side door the body seem pretty straight without any other oil canning.

When I get back from New Zealand in Sept. I will finish the roof so i am 100 percent happy with it and then start on spreading some filler and getting to making things very straight.

Talk to you then, any insight on the dry paint issue on the roof would be helpful. I feel like I might have been too close to the panel, not sure if that would cause a dry spray, or its simply just overspray landing on the roof, because it is the same on the rear window sill where its flat, a bit dry and when i rub my fingers over it this morning it seems to smooth out like I am remvoing the overspray. But other wise the epoxy seemed to set down nice and no solvent pop or fish eyes going on.

Paul
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:47 AM   #116
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Finally back to work on the cab after 7 weeks away. My focus now is getting the firewall completely finished by november so i can put the cab back on the frame and make room in my garage. Then I can do the rest of the body work while the cab is on the frame.

So the last two days I spent pretty the firewall and the inside of the cab (but that will be painted later on). Lots of sanding, wirewheeling and cleaning. I was trying to skip the step of washing everything with soap and water again, thinking i could get away with just using the degreaser but it was never ending brown/black on the paper towel. So I busted out the dish soap and got to work. I tell ya, that is the only way to go in order to get the metal spotless. After that I went over again with the degreaser and tack cloth and got spraying.

3 coats of epoxy primer. The first coat I think I thinned it out too much, so the 2nd/3rd coat I only reduced by about 5 percent and it seemed to lay down a bit nicer and seemed darker (blacker) than when i sprayed the rest of the cab last month.

I am still struggling with having some spots lay down silky smooth while others have a bit more orange peel or a slight rough texture. I feel like my speed is the same but maybe the smooth parts I am laying down more paint?? I really dont know as this is my first time using a paint gun.

Anyway. Next step will be to lay down filler on the firewall to get it as flat as I can before some slick sand.

If anyone has any tips about my uneven paint texture please chime in.

Thanks guys

Paul
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Old 10-08-2017, 04:00 AM   #117
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

ALright guys, making some progress on the firewall. This thing was very far from flat, so I did the best metal work i could to get it flat before filler, epoxy again and now its in the slick sand stage. I will start blocking on it today and hopefully it is completely flat after that and I can get it into high build.

The first pic is before any filler was on, just epoxied it again after the metal beating. But you can see in the slick sand stage the difference in the flatness of the firewall. I didnt get a shot of the firewall before I added the slick sand.

I didnt do so much work to the area that will be covered by the heater core cover. That metal is so warped in there from the factory it was worth spending hours trying to get it straight when you will never see it. I hope that isnt be lazy. I will probably do a skim coat of filler just to make it look a little smoother but not much more beyond that point. My main focus was the very top of the firewall wall, because when you open the hood there is about a 2.5" width strip that is not covered up, and then the other main part was where I shaved the seems (upper left and right hand corner) along with the large flat part of the panel.

Till next time.

Paul
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:34 AM   #118
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Good progress. From what I can see you have reason for confidence in your process and results.
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Old 11-26-2017, 08:00 AM   #119
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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Good progress. From what I can see you have reason for confidence in your process and results.
Thanks buddy. Itís a fun build and process. Learning as I go with the body work and painting. I finally finished blocking down the high build. Then I put down the color and clear. All in all it came out alright. I have some runs I need to fix that came from the seams. And I must have put the color on way to thick the first pass because the it wrinkled up on the cow. But Iíll sand that down and repaint.

Sorry some of the pics are upside down. Loaded it from my phone
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:05 PM   #120
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

Alright after taking the last 6 months off because I had no time. I finally got working back on the truck.

First thing to do was to fix my mess up of a paint job on the firewall. Well my mess up of color sanding and breaking through the clear. My OCD would not let it go. So i sanded everything down and resprayed base/clear. This time it came out not so bad. And after 2.5 years the cab is finally back on the frame, Feels like a big step was made and not i can really charge to get things done.

Some pics below of the progress.

But my question i have is, looking at my roof, I think i created a sag or basically shrunk the metal too much trying to get rid of some of the oil canning and low spots. Rookie mistake. I need to check exactly how out of shape it is, but i dont feel comfortable filling it with body filler. I am guessing it is at least 1/8" low in a 12" section (round).

But I am not sure how to go about being able to get the shape back in the metal. Is it possible to heat that area with the hope of it expanding back into its shape? Or is that just magical hope thinking? Or should i just treat it as a dent and try to work that out, obviously i cant get tot hte back side of it since its an outer skin, so I would have to use pins to pull it out. I posted some pics prior to the shrinking and the area in the middle marked oil can (middle of the 3 oil can makrs) is where the shrunken metal is, but its about a 12" round section.

Thanks for any tips guys

Paul
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:53 PM   #121
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

FYI... filling/removing the drip rails are a bad idea. The interior will be wet every time it rains. GM tried the no drip rail thing in 73... They then recalled/service bulletins all the trucks to add drip rails.

On the low spots, either stud gun them or fill and sand for it to be perfect.

These trucks were far from perfect when new add 40 plus years and....
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:55 PM   #122
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

One more thought... You could drill a small hole in the head liner panel and push up the outer skin. Then weld the holes up.


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FYI... filling/removing the drip rails are a bad idea. The interior will be wet every time it rains. GM tried the no drip rail thing in 73... They then recalled/service bulletins all the trucks to add drip rails.

On the low spots, either stud gun them or fill and sand for it to be perfect.

These trucks were far from perfect when new add 40 plus years and....
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:57 PM   #123
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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FYI... filling/removing the drip rails are a bad idea. The interior will be wet every time it rains. GM tried the no drip rail thing in 73... They then recalled/service bulletins all the trucks to add drip rails.

On the low spots, either stud gun them or fill and sand for it to be perfect.

These trucks were far from perfect when new add 40 plus years and....
Thanks for your input. As far as the drip rails, I wont be driving this much or at all in the rain. The next truck I build will be more of an original, drive everyday sort of rig. But this one is for burn outs and sunny days.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:58 PM   #124
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

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One more thought... You could drill a small hole in the head liner panel and push up the outer skin. Then weld the holes up.
That is not a bad idea at all!!

Thank you
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:30 AM   #125
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Re: American in Austria 83 Build

It seems that if you have a low spot that is about 1/8 deep by 12 in diameter that just filling it would be fine. If it was a quarter or 3/8 deep it seems that would be more of a concern. My concern is if you pop it back up and get everything smooth, is there a chance that you could bump it and it would pop back down. So I would finish it in whatever its most stable position is. There're definitely guys on here that know more than me about this though.

However, I will register an opinion on the drip rails. I had my first Square in the 90s and drove it for a couple years after pulling the drip rails and never noticed the difference. I'm sure that there is a difference since I agree GM thought it was important to put them on. But I do live in Seattle, and it was a daily driver, and rumor has it that it rains here. I think I got used to opening the door letting some drips fall on my arm and then hopping out. FWIW, I'm pulling the drip rails on one of the Squares I have now too.

Nice to see your progress. Thanks for posting.
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