The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > 47 - Current classic GM Trucks > The 1947 - 1959 Chevrolet & GMC Pickups Message Board

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2018, 07:56 PM   #1
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

This is my first time placing engine mounts and I need help with the order of operations.

5.3 LS, 4l60e, Flatout Crossmember in front, likely Flatout rear.

I got a CTS V pan to help with fitment, and i want the engine mounted as close to the cab as possible without causing any heartache down the line.

What comes first? Do I need to install the rear in order to get an angle from that? Should I install the steering column so I can shift the motor over if needed?

The mounts are custom and therefore I have some freedom with the xyz axis.

Thanks, Gents!
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2018, 09:42 PM   #2
mongocanfly
Post Whore

 
mongocanfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,557
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

The engine and trans should be the first thing you install...get it centered and running parralel to the frame rails..try to set it at around 3deg downward angle with the trans being the lower end..you'll have to route your steering to the r&p anyway and you can route it around the engine...last thing is the rear ,set your angle with pinion up 3deg..but do this at ride height fully weighted..
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

RIP Dad
RIP Jesse

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2023 Chevy Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2018, 11:10 PM   #3
joedoh
Senior Member
 
joedoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Doodah Kansas
Posts: 7,746
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

like mongo said, I usually hang the engine in the framerails, either from above with a cherry picker or from below with a couple floor jacks (the ones that dont leak down haha) I like to go 1 inch to the passenger side for steering clearance and keep the oil pan a little higher than the lowest crossmember. I install the engine mounts first keeping the 3 degree down (easier with jacks but be careful not to knock it off) then the trans mount.

if you are asking WHERE in the frame should you set up the motor, mock up is the best way to find out. put the cab on, motor in the framerails on the picker or the jacks and move it around. if you dont have the cab on yet, put it on for this. dont forget the distributor because its the furthest/tallest aft mounted piece that will hit the firewall. if you dont have a distributor, the passenger side head is usually the next furthest/tallest piece. if you cant get it high enough you may need a trans tunnel. if you cant get it back far enough for the fan or accessories you may need to tub the firewall.
__________________
the mass of men live lives of quiet desperation


if there is a problem, I can have it.

new project WAYNE http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=844393
joedoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2018, 11:49 PM   #4
mongocanfly
Post Whore

 
mongocanfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,557
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Joedoh ...No distributor,,no worries...hes going LS...
But like joedoh stated...put the cab on..and it would be advised to have the inners and radiator support installed as well
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

RIP Dad
RIP Jesse

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2023 Chevy Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 12:06 AM   #5
MiraclePieCo
Registered User
 
MiraclePieCo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 2,249
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Really you need to know ALL those variables. The more you can assemble in advance, the better. I failed to pre-fit my crank pulley - it almost came back to bite me.
__________________
1951 Chevy Panel Truck
MiraclePieCo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 07:14 PM   #6
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Thank you for the insight so far, gents. Let me ask some followup if I may:

(Cab is on the frame, its never left it because I have nowhere to put it. The front of the truck is sitting in the bed, that's the space I'm working with)


1. 3 degree angle sloping down from engine to trans: I have the CPP trans crossmember, am I correct in assuming that I should roughly mock that up to give me a starting point for the 3 deg, essentially temporarily mount the trans, clamp the crossmember down to the frame, set angle to 0, then lift the engine until I reach 3 deg?

2. Parallel mounting- How does this work if shifting 1 inch to the passenger side? stay parallel and let the driveshaft make up that inch along its length? Is that an acceptable operating angle of the U Joint?

2b. With an LS in a Task Force (34" frame) is there an advantage for this shift, or is it better to get some TBSS exhaust mani's that fit tight to the block and stay centered?

3. How small of a gap can I have between engine and firewall before it makes maintenance/inspection/disassembly a nightmare...anyone wish they had left more room?
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 07:42 PM   #7
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 7,771
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

you will want the engine as far back and down as possible to keep a low center of gravity and shift some weight to the rear. these trucks are already light back there. before doing that mark the cross member center line and then,like said, slip the engine and trans in as a unit, put a block of wood under the pan between the cross member to ensure you leave enough space there and then just use the floor jack or some stands under the trans end to mock up a 3 deg down slope.a couple of 1x4 wood blocks (or thinner pieces of plywood, depending on how much room you decide you need) duct taped to the firewall will ensure you have space back there, same under the floor where the trans hump is. leave enough room up front for p/s hoses etc to clear the fittings when hooked up. a piece of abs pipe with some reducer bushings that allow the steering rack shaft and the column shaft to fit inside them works pretty good for as a mocking up the steering column shaft space. mock up some exh mannies, stick a starter on it just because, thik about a/c if youre gonna have that. then see what you have for room out front. an electric fan will need probably 4 1/2" between the rad and the water pump snout (guessing here, some are thinner I suppose) remember to think about the throttle linkage if manual style throttle body is used. if the intake is from a truck they sit pretty tall so a car intake may help there if you need room. some injection systems run a single line and some run a double and they will usually interfere around where the drivers side valve cover is. remember the fuel lines will need a fuel connection so leave some room there. some will dimple the firewall to get around that but then it can affect the accel pedal positioning. the trans mount would be one of the last things that I would mock up personally. the floor jack works pretty well. just ensure to keep the trans output shaft centered between the rails. a chunk of scrap wood cut to fit between the rails so it will slide along but still sit on the frame rails works. marked with a center line for reference. you could even sit it on it's side and drill a hole through to slip the tailshaft housing through I suppose if you wanna get all fancy. like a piece of plywood that could be cut to drop below frame height if required. thats sort time wasted though.
post up some pics so we can critique, I mean, help you. haha. (we all been there man)
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #8
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 7,771
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

if offsetting the engine to one side it is critical to have the engine parallel to the frame and the diff 90 deg to the frame. otherwise go man go.
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 09:40 PM   #9
mongocanfly
Post Whore

 
mongocanfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,557
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Yes you want to keep all your driveline centerlines running parralel..whether offset side2side or vertically up&down...if your gonna offset to pass side make sure you have everything on the engine before you do...since your using the flat out xmember I assume you'll use the vett r&p as well..offsetting the engine isn't gonna help much with this setup,, but thats up to you...your gonna have a rollercoaster steering rod to get point a2b anyway..I'd try to stay at least a half inch off the firewall..if you do the recess firewall it'll give you more room up front...
I would set the trans xmember first..making sure it's a little higher than your frame or xmembers...then raise the engine to get your 3deg..
Either Tb and camaro manifolds are best...
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

RIP Dad
RIP Jesse

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2023 Chevy Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2018, 11:10 PM   #10
ndeep
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Walnut Hill,Il
Posts: 56
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

with my ls3 pushed down as far as i could get it, rack and pinion clocked for more clearance,vintage air front runner,oe style 3 core radiator modified for an ls ,and a spal fan, i have >3/4 inch between fan and water pump with engine pushed back into firewall 2 inches. i did not offset my engine, it would probably been easier to install steering, but i am to ocd to even try
ndeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 02:05 PM   #11
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I went ahead and ordered some TBSS manifolds, so once those come in I should be able to get a good idea of how much space I'm working with and whether or not shifting over to the passenger side is advantageous.

I don't have a steering column setup yet but I suppose there are ways to snake around things. I've been unsuccessful so far at finding the keyless GM van column.
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 06:48 PM   #12
_Ogre
Registered User
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Motown
Posts: 7,660
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

no need to offset the motor, 55-59 trucks were designed with v8 in mind
__________________
cool, an ogre smiley Ogre's 58 Truk build

how to put your truck year and build thread into your signature
shop air compressor timer
_Ogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 03:26 AM   #13
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
no need to offset the motor, 55-59 trucks were designed with v8 in mind
I'm thinking that with the TBSS manifolds, I should do just fine heading straight down the center.

I got the engine roughly in place, and suspended from the hoist, the trans is touching the cab, the oil pan is barely above the steering rack, and the engine angle is definitely more than 3 degrees.

I'm honestly a bit perplexed, as I've seen trucks here with LS/Flatout and it doesn't look like there was any firewall modification.

In Dan's chassis below, the engine is as far forward as physics allow, as the passenger valve cover has about 50 cents worth of space until it touches the cab.



Dan, I noticed you have the trans access panel off in your can in all of your pictures.. does it fit and you just havent installed, or did you need to remove it? (hope he sees this)
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 10:48 AM   #14
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 7,771
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

if you need some info from Dan, try a private message to him. it will go to his email directly.
find him in a post somewhere, left click on his title/name/call sign, a window will come up with options and you can choose "send a private message".
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 02:06 PM   #15
_Ogre
Registered User
 
_Ogre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Motown
Posts: 7,660
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

you should remove the trans cover pan, with the 700r4 i had to slightly modify the cover to keep the trans up
different motor but i have my ramjet down and back as far as possible, maybe an inch to firewall
not the best pic, but you can see the trans cover mod in this pic, was hitting the bellhousing
i had some floor pan repair panels that i cut from
Attached Images
  
__________________
cool, an ogre smiley Ogre's 58 Truk build

how to put your truck year and build thread into your signature
shop air compressor timer
_Ogre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 04:06 PM   #16
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 7,771
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

thats a really cool fix ogre. that would make it possible to check/change the dist cap etc if the area behind it was also easily removable. reminds me of a ford aerostar I had where 1/2 the dash came off (easliy) to access the rear of the engine. sorta like any van I guess.
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 09:22 PM   #17
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven View Post
if you need some info from Dan, try a private message to him. it will go to his email directly.
find him in a post somewhere, left click on his title/name/call sign, a window will come up with options and you can choose "send a private message".
Haha, thanks. I try to preserve the knowledge on the forum for others vs. just in the DM, but I will follow up with the response here if needed.
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 09:24 PM   #18
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Ogre View Post
you should remove the trans cover pan, with the 700r4 i had to slightly modify the cover to keep the trans up
different motor but i have my ramjet down and back as far as possible, maybe an inch to firewall
not the best pic, but you can see the trans cover mod in this pic, was hitting the bellhousing
i had some floor pan repair panels that i cut from
Definitely..and now that I want to remove it, I cant find that bit for removing the OEM bolts from the trans cover pan... GRRR! Probably just drive to Harbor Freight, will be faster than finding it and I need two of them anyways.
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 01:32 AM   #19
daveshilling
Senior Member
 
daveshilling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: roseville
Posts: 822
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Since I got the CPP crossmember modified to fit between the frame, I decided to mount it to the trans and see if I could find the 3 degree angle while still being able to remove the steering rack.

I've come up with a solution. I trimmed the trans cover lip back about .75" and it makes just enough space for the trans to reach the mount, the valve covers to stay at least .75" from the firewall, and the CTS-V pan doesnt interfere with the steering rack. Although I don't regret the purchase, I may even have been able to get away with a regular rebuilt rack vs. the clocked one I got from Don at Flatout.





I should be able to modify the trans tunnel cover and still bolt it to the factory location since there is a small amount of recessed lip left there.
daveshilling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 12:20 PM   #20
b-mac
Registered User
 
b-mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Wichita
Posts: 516
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Not to jack the thread, but how vital is it to get everything parallel to the frame rails?

Are there any degrees of play in this number?

Running a 5.3 w/ 4L60, 8.8 Explorer rear.

Know the 8.8 has an offset input.

I push the block to the passenger's side to clear the steering. I have a shortened stock cross member as my trans support.

I'm worried that I might have too much of a crossways angle on the engine.

Could this be corrected or mitigated with a 2 piece drive shaft?
b-mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 12:41 PM   #21
mongocanfly
Post Whore

 
mongocanfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,557
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Bmac...the frame rails are just the starting point for everything else....moving the engine to the side is no different than raising the engine...it's mearly a angle....the engine/trans centerline needs to be perpendicular to the rear axle....doesnt matter if it's side2side or up and down...and also the angle in the u joints are what helps keep the needles rotating and lubricating...
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

RIP Dad
RIP Jesse

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2023 Chevy Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 02:08 PM   #22
b-mac
Registered User
 
b-mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Wichita
Posts: 516
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

100% dead nuts on perpendicular?

Or will the u-joint buy me a couple degrees?
b-mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 03:45 PM   #23
dsraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: calgary alberta
Posts: 7,771
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

the centerline of the engine needs to be at 90 degrees to the rear axle. you could install everything else however you want but keep those angles to be sure you don't end up with a vibration. the offset diff pumkin is just another angle for the ujoint to factor in but if you decide to go with a 2 piece driveshaft you could be in for trouble. ask any 4x4 guy with a lifted truck that has a 2 piece driveshaft and he will say (or lie) that there is never any vibration. the front ujoint being a down angle and the rear u joint being an equal up angle cancels itself. the front u joint being also angled to the side to line up with the pumkin will also cancel itself if the rear angle is the opposite. thats why you gotta keep the centerline of the engine at 90 degrees to the diff. use a plumb bob and mark the floor under the cente of each part and go from there.
dsraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2018, 03:57 PM   #24
mongocanfly
Post Whore

 
mongocanfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,557
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

Unless you got a shop full of laser measuring equipment the next best thing is measuring off the frame....it gives you some leeway on angles...the last engine I set, I used for the first time, a digital angle finder...I was amazed at how far you could lift the trans to get just 1deg of angle....so yes it doesnt have to be dead nuts but just try to get it as close as possible...
__________________
Mongo...aka Greg

RIP Dad
RIP Jesse

1981 C30 LQ9 NV4500..http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=753598
Mongos AD- LS3 TR6060...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post8522334
Columbus..the 1957 IH 4x4...http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...63#post8082563
2023 Chevy Z71..daily driver
mongocanfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2018, 10:38 AM   #25
65blackfleetside
Registered User
 
65blackfleetside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 215
Re: Stupid Question about placing engine mounts

I read somewhere in this forum where someone suggested using a 2x4 laying flat to space your motor off the crossmember. mounting engine too low and you will have lots of issues with your front drive accessories hitting fender wells. Take your time even if this means pulling engine in and out a few times. I am about 1" away from the stock firewall with my LS3 and it fits good; however, I cant run the normal width spal electic fan due to water pump clearance issues- I will have to go with a n extra slim fan
__________________
current ride 1951 AD Chevy 5 window 2004 LS Gen 3 [/B]
1965 fleetside Sold
65blackfleetside is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2022 67-72chevytrucks.com