55.2-59 progress today and questions for the pros

[Phungki]

So today I got my truck stripped down to the frame. Not a single bolt left on it. I’ve got the POR15 and all the prep materials ready to start in. This part seems fairly straight forward. I have read that as long as you follow the instructions to the letter with all the steps that this stuff works well. I do have a few questions in regards to the suspension.

First. From what I’ve read POR15 isn’t very flexible and prone to cracking if flexed. So I’m thinking I should be using something else on the leaf springs. Any suggestions?

Second. I plan on using leaf spring liners. This seems easy enough but I'm curious how it will go back together. Will it all go back together just as it did before even though it’s a little thicker now with liners between all the leafs?

I know I will have more questions but this will keep me busy for awhile.
Thank you for any advice you might have

[MARTINSR]

Do you have any access in your area to a powder coater? I just had my frame and a bunch of other stuff done for only $500, you couldn't even afford the paint to do it for that! It is SOOOOOO nice working with that frame now all smooth and finished. And the best part, it wasn't any work!

Brian

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Do you have any access in your area to a powder coater? I just had my frame and a bunch of other stuff done for only $500, you couldn't even afford the paint to do it for that! It is SOOOOOO nice working with that frame now all smooth and finished. And the best part, it wasn't any work!

Brian

I’m not sure. I haven’t looked into that. I’ve heard it’s pretty durable. I’ll check around. Will that work on the leaf springs? I’m is it flexible?

[MARTINSR]

I don't know to tell you the truth, I am thinking it wouldn't be good for the springs, but all the hard parts for sure! Bumper brackets, that sort of thing, it is awesome!

Brian

[Dan in Pasadena]

The leaf springs should assemble just as before.

May I suggest you grind a small bevel on the leading edge of each leaf where it rubs on the next one? This cuts friction too and makes them slide more smoothly. Smooth = better ride.

[dsraven]

now that you have the frame sitting out on stands with nothing else on it, before you do anything else, clean it and then check it for square, straightness and sag.
-if you have access to a water hose in the area it is good to degrease the frame and then wash it off with water, as it dries look for any wet lines that don't dry like the area around them. this can point to a crack. the crack will usually allow water to get inside and sit in the crack and that area dries slower so it shows up. it shows even better with hot water but thats a big luxury for most of us
then
-measure and mark each cross member at it's center point with a piece of tape and a fine line pen or pencil
-run a string from the rear cross member mark to the front cross member mark and check to ensure the string crosses over each center mark you made
-do a cross check from corner to corner and compare, this can be out about 1/8" but is also hard to do by yourself. a clamp works well to hold the end of the tape if working alone. remember to get the end of the tape placed in the same place on each side so the dimension is accurate and the same
-run the string along the top or bottom of each frame rail and check for sag. a couple of short pieces of 2x4 or other spacer material work well to get the string up off the frame high enough to clear the bump
-if is it all good then start looking for loose rivets and small cracks . loose rivets can be replaced with grade 8 bolts but clean the surfaces down to bare smooth steel so the fasteners have a flat surface to bear down on
-sandblasting would be great if you have that in your budget but a wire wheel on a angle grinder also works to get rid of the lumps. a scraper works to get rid of the scale sometimes but be careful not to mark the frame with the sharp edges or corners of the scraper. I use a wood chisel that has the corners rounded off, it's stronger than a regular scraper
-now you're ready to coat it with whatever. there are urethane paints that work pretty well as a top coat and will take some abuse from rock chips etc. I have used endura for frames before. eastwood makes a chassis paint and if you talk to a steel worker they will say to use a mastic epoxy primer which has waaay more solids in it. more solids equals a tougher surface and possibly a single coat. i have used por15 and found it to be a bit on the brittle side.
for the springs if you disassemble them you might consider flipping them upside down on a couple pieces of wood or right on the dirt, then give them a couple of good whacks in the middle with a sledge hammer. take a good look at the leafs after that and see if there are any cracks. better to find out early that you have a weak spring or a fatigued leaf than after you have the whole truck apart and a week later you find a broken leaf has come out and wrecked a tire. an old spring tech told me this is what he does before doing any re-arch or rebush etc. then when installing the slipper parts you will need new center bolts. ensure you have the right diameter and length before you start. new u bolts are also advised. for paint, same thing goes, high solids epoxy. there is also an elastomer additive if you really want to get serious.
or, just regular old rust paint. depends on the budget and the tools you have on hand, like everything else. we do what we can with what we have and can afford. show trucks even get body filler on the frame before paint. I hope nobody looks under mine, lol.

[mongocanfly]

The more I read on por15 the more I dont want it...hiding rust under it isn't good....sandblast and epoxy primer/paint or powder coat is definitely the best way...

[dsraven]

oh yeah, one other thing, I have seen those concrete blocks used for jack stands many times before but understand that they are brittle and tend to crumble under spot loading. I have seen them fail multiple times in my line of work (firefighter) and had to rescue the injured/crushed worker from under the rubble. please fab up some good strong stands or blocking or spend a couple of bucks on a good set of jack stands. check the local ads or the local pawn shop for a used set. trust me, you will use them over and over in your build. personally I have 3 sets of the large 6 ton stands and a couple of shorter 3 ton stands. I have run out of stands before due to multiple things in multiple places. you will use them if you have them and you can always sell them when you're done if you find they are in your way and you don't need them anymore. check harbour freight for some inexpensive units if the cash is tight but please, never crawl under anything that is blocked up with cinder blocks.

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by dsraven

oh yeah, one other thing, I have seen those concrete blocks used for jack stands many times before but understand that they are brittle and tend to crumble under spot loading. I have seen them fail multiple times in my line of work (firefighter) and had to rescue the injured/crushed worker from under the rubble. please fab up some good strong stands or blocking or spend a couple of bucks on a good set of jack stands. check the local ads or the local pawn shop for a used set. trust me, you will use them over and over in your build. personally I have 3 sets of the large 6 ton stands and a couple of shorter 3 ton stands. I have run out of stands before due to multiple things in multiple places. you will use them if you have them and you can always sell them when you're done if you find they are in your way and you don't need them anymore. check harbour freight for some inexpensive units if the cash is tight but please, never crawl under anything that is blocked up with cinder blocks.

You are right. I have jack stands at home. I didn’t expect to get as much accomplished that day as I did so I just grabbed the blocks as opposed to just laying it on the ground. That’s why the back blocks are so close to the middle. I just blocked it up so I could remove the jack and pull out the rear suspension. I’m trying not to mangle myself up too bad. Smacking myself with the 3lb hammer when I was driving out some rivets was enough.
Thanks for looking out tho

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

The more I read on por15 the more I dont want it...hiding rust under it isn't good....sandblast and epoxy primer/paint or powder coat is definitely the best way...

I don’t think I will be hiding much rust. After it’s wirewheeled down and you go through the prep process I think it will be fine. I just can’t afford to have everything sandblasted and epoxied. Wish I could but just not in the cards unless I want this to be a 10 process.
Thank you

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by dsraven

now that you have the frame sitting out on stands with nothing else on it, before you do anything else, clean it and then check it for square, straightness and sag.
-if you have access to a water hose in the area it is good to degrease the frame and then wash it off with water, as it dries look for any wet lines that don't dry like the area around them. this can point to a crack. the crack will usually allow water to get inside and sit in the crack and that area dries slower so it shows up. it shows even better with hot water but thats a big luxury for most of us
then
-measure and mark each cross member at it's center point with a piece of tape and a fine line pen or pencil
-run a string from the rear cross member mark to the front cross member mark and check to ensure the string crosses over each center mark you made
-do a cross check from corner to corner and compare, this can be out about 1/8" but is also hard to do by yourself. a clamp works well to hold the end of the tape if working alone. remember to get the end of the tape placed in the same place on each side so the dimension is accurate and the same
-run the string along the top or bottom of each frame rail and check for sag. a couple of short pieces of 2x4 or other spacer material work well to get the string up off the frame high enough to clear the bump
-if is it all good then start looking for loose rivets and small cracks . loose rivets can be replaced with grade 8 bolts but clean the surfaces down to bare smooth steel so the fasteners have a flat surface to bear down on
-sandblasting would be great if you have that in your budget but a wire wheel on a angle grinder also works to get rid of the lumps. a scraper works to get rid of the scale sometimes but be careful not to mark the frame with the sharp edges or corners of the scraper. I use a wood chisel that has the corners rounded off, it's stronger than a regular scraper
-now you're ready to coat it with whatever. there are urethane paints that work pretty well as a top coat and will take some abuse from rock chips etc. I have used endura for frames before. eastwood makes a chassis paint and if you talk to a steel worker they will say to use a mastic epoxy primer which has waaay more solids in it. more solids equals a tougher surface and possibly a single coat. i have used por15 and found it to be a bit on the brittle side.
for the springs if you disassemble them you might consider flipping them upside down on a couple pieces of wood or right on the dirt, then give them a couple of good whacks in the middle with a sledge hammer. take a good look at the leafs after that and see if there are any cracks. better to find out early that you have a weak spring or a fatigued leaf than after you have the whole truck apart and a week later you find a broken leaf has come out and wrecked a tire. an old spring tech told me this is what he does before doing any re-arch or rebush etc. then when installing the slipper parts you will need new center bolts. ensure you have the right diameter and length before you start. new u bolts are also advised. for paint, same thing goes, high solids epoxy. there is also an elastomer additive if you really want to get serious.
or, just regular old rust paint. depends on the budget and the tools you have on hand, like everything else. we do what we can with what we have and can afford. show trucks even get body filler on the frame before paint. I hope nobody looks under mine, lol.

Thank you for commenting. I had totally forgot about checking for square and sag. Knew about it while I’ve been researching but in my head I had already moved onto stripping and sealing.
I’m just going to use a wire wheel or whatever I need to clean up the leaf springs. I was hoping I could find something similar to what POR15 does but remain flexible. Just in case I don’t get every speck of rust off.

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

The leaf springs should assemble just as before.

May I suggest you grind a small bevel on the leading edge of each leaf where it rubs on the next one? This cuts friction too and makes them slide more smoothly. Smooth = better ride.

I will do this. Thank you for the tip

[Driver_WT]

I have used Rust Bullet instead of POR15 and do not find Rust Bullet to be brittle.

[1project2many]

Urethane and epoxy paints are both very durable. Urethane paints tend to live longer when exposed to UV light. Urethane also tends to be more flexible than epoxy paint. Urethane sign paint must be made of Kryptonite because it takes more than the man of steel to remove it.

If you have air then a needle scaler is a great tool to use along with the wire wheel. It knocks off old paint, rust, undercoating, and ancient hardened grease. You need a good air source but the results are worth it. Also get hearing protection!

You should not paint the flats of the leaf springs if they will be in contact with another leaf. The top of top leaf and bottom of bottom leaf plus the sides are ok. The leaf spring will go together just fine because the center bolt will clamp it together. Make sure to get pads to go between the leaves at the center. You should consider how the sliders are going to be retained in place. Most new springs have holes or grooves for the sliders to rest in. You can drill holes in the spring using a masonry bit and a drill press at 400-500 rpm. Plan carefully so the sliders don't end up rubbing on the clamps at the ends of the leaves. The truck ride should be noticeably better with sliders.

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Urethane and epoxy paints are both very durable. Urethane paints tend to live longer when exposed to UV light. Urethane also tends to be more flexible than epoxy paint. Urethane sign paint must be made of Kryptonite because it takes more than the man of steel to remove it.

If you have air then a needle scaler is a great tool to use along with the wire wheel. It knocks off old paint, rust, undercoating, and ancient hardened grease. You need a good air source but the results are worth it. Also get hearing protection!

You should not paint the flats of the leaf springs if they will be in contact with another leaf. The top of top leaf and bottom of bottom leaf plus the sides are ok. The leaf spring will go together just fine because the center bolt will clamp it together. Make sure to get pads to go between the leaves at the center. You should consider how the sliders are going to be retained in place. Most new springs have holes or grooves for the sliders to rest in. You can drill holes in the spring using a masonry bit and a drill press at 400-500 rpm. Plan carefully so the sliders don't end up rubbing on the clamps at the ends of the leaves. The truck ride should be noticeably better with sliders.

Are you talking about those little roundish pads for in between the leafs? What I was looking at is as wide as the spring and you cut it to the length you need.

[dsraven]

if you are talking about the full length plastic sheets that some guys put in between the leafs then make sure to buy the same color as the springs or it can look a bit off.

[1project2many]

Are you talking about those little roundish pads for in between the leafs? What I was looking at is as wide as the spring and you cut it to the length you need.

Yes, I am talking about that pads the go only on the ends of the springs. I've read plenty of forum discussions and "expert" comments about the strips breaking or failing to stay in place that I choose to avoid them. When I rebuilt the springs in my 92 Toyota years ago I did the work to drill holes in the leaves and I felt the results were worth the effort. I was able to haul load after load of wood around without the sliders becoming dislodged and my post-surgery spine appreciated the ride loaded or empty. If I ever find myself in a position to rebuild the springs in my '57 I will do the same.

[mick53]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

I don't know to tell you the truth, I am thinking it wouldn't be good for the springs, but all the hard parts for sure! Bumper brackets, that sort of thing, it is awesome!

Brian

The problem with powder coating springs (or chrome) is the heat required. Eaton says spring damage can happen at 300 deg.

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Yes, I am talking about the pads the go only on the ends of the springs. I've read plenty of forum discussions and "expert" comments about the strips breaking or failing to stay in place that I choose to avoid them. When I rebuilt the springs in my 92 Toyota years ago I did the work to drill holes in the leaves and I felt the results were worth the effort. I was able to haul load after load of wood around without the sliders becoming dislodged and my post-surgery spine appreciated the ride loaded or empty. If I ever find myself in a position to rebuild the springs in my '57 I will do the same.

So those little buttons will make it just as smooth and quite as covering the whole leaf would? Seems like the way to go then. Where does one get those buttons?

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mick53

The problem with powder coating springs (or chrome) is the heat required. Eaton says spring damage can happen at 300 deg.

Ahh, good point, good info.


Brian

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by Phungki

So those little buttons will make it just as smooth and quite as covering the whole leaf would? Seems like the way to go then. Where does one get those buttons?

I purchased mine from Eaton but there are other spring suppliers as well. They were priced inexpensively on Eaton's site but the shipping was high.

https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/o...taching-parts/
Select "Other parts" from the LH dropdown menu and "Tip Insert" from the RH dropdown menu.

[mr48chev]

On coating the frame, we can never assume what someone else budget allows for that step.
While it is pretty I am not a big fan of powder coating on frames because there is always that chance you are going to rework something on it and then you are stuck with powder coat that has been disturbed and the only way to cover it is with paint. Simply meaning that every bit of welding, grinding, fabricating hole drilling and what not absolutely has to be done before it is powder coated.

On cleaning up the leaf springs there are a few good articles out there on doing that. If you have never had one apart before you need to make sure that you have it clamped with some serious C clamps that you can release the pressure on a bit at a time to take the pressure off the stack. As Dan said, dressing up the tips of the leaves so they are slightly rounded helps them slide over the leaf it rides against. I've got to rebuild a spring for my car trailer in the next few days so maybe I can do a quick tutorial on it if my old brain remembers.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Phungki

I will do this. Thank you for the tip

You're welcome. I hope it helps some.

Another idea occurred to me: If you're planning to lower your truck or if when you disassemble the leaves you find one or more to be broken take a look at Posie's Super Slider springs. They lower the truck with TWO leaves - safer than a mono spring. AND they come with Teflon "pucks" - rub blocks - pressed into pockets formed into the springs.

PS: The amount they lower the truck will be expressed as 2" or 3" but remember that value is from the stock spring in good condition. These trucks are 60+ years old and have been heavy workers so they're already lower than they came stock.

Best of luck and of course post pictures of what you do, Dan

[Phungki]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

On coating the frame, we can never assume what someone else budget allows for that step.
While it is pretty I am not a big fan of powder coating on frames because there is always that chance you are going to rework something on it and then you are stuck with powder coat that has been disturbed and the only way to cover it is with paint. Simply meaning that every bit of welding, grinding, fabricating hole drilling and what not absolutely has to be done before it is powder coated.

On cleaning up the leaf springs there are a few good articles out there on doing that. If you have never had one apart before you need to make sure that you have it clamped with some serious C clamps that you can release the pressure on a bit at a time to take the pressure off the stack. As Dan said, dressing up the tips of the leaves so they are slightly rounded helps them slide over the leaf it rides against. I've got to rebuild a spring for my car trailer in the next few days so maybe I can do a quick tutorial on it if my old brain remembers.

A tutorial would be great
I won't be powder coating anything. It's beyond what I want to invest. I can already tell that this can get out of control if I'm not careful...even if I am.

[mick53]

Originally Posted by Phungki

A tutorial would be great
I won't be powder coating anything. It's beyond what I want to invest. I can already tell that this can get out of control if I'm not careful...even if I am.

That day has come and gone for me my friend.