Ever use steel posts to build a wood privacy fence?

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

My project's in paint prison, might be worth my while to build a fence for someone who insists on steel posts. I've always used wood, hasn't failed me yet over many decades. But what the heck, learn something new. Might be easier than wood posts, I get carried away with it.

Some guys recommend 4-6" inches of soil above the concrete for frost heaving - what do you think? I've never seen a fence heave, but okay. It's counter-intuitive, do that with treated wood it won't last long, but galvanized is supposed to last much longer. Less concrete is a smaller anchor as well, I've seen 90+ MPH gusts.

I guess some guys float the steel posts as well, meaning a deeper hole to save cuts. Some drive the post into the soil too. From here I'm a novice, be nice to do it right & easy the first time. I only know enough to use nuts and bolts instead of lag bolts.


OT: I'm building a garden and found use for the shocks off my I'd always recruited my kids to hold them in place while I poured. Probably dropped 150 of these -a little slow shocks & rebar makes it easy.

[Steeveedee]

Pretty sure where you live that the UBC requires a 4 foot deep hole to avoid heaving due to frost. Not sure if that's for fences or just foundations. I do remember going in 3 feet in Idaho for fence posts. Here in sunny Cal, we only have to go down 14" or 18" for a standard 5' steel fence post. It's been over 20 years since I put up a chain link fence to replace the tumbled block wall after the Northridge quake.

[truckster]

This site will give you an approximate frost depth for your area:

https://www.hammerpedia.com/nevada-frost-line/

I'd go 4 to 6 inches below the frost line just to be safe. If you're using galvanized you don't need a primer, but if you use uncoated steel, make sure you have primer all the way from the bottom to above the ground level. I usually dry-set fence posts, meaning I pour the mix in dry and then add water.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Pretty sure where you live that the UBC requires a 4 foot deep hole to avoid heaving due to frost. Not sure if that's for fences or just foundations. I do remember going in 3 feet in Idaho for fence posts. Here in sunny Cal, we only have to go down 14" or 18" for a standard 5' steel fence post. It's been over 20 years since I put up a chain link fence to replace the tumbled block wall after the Northridge quake.

FOUR FEET? Geez, I've never dug a 4 ft. hole in my life. 3' one section, but that was because of the grade. I suspect that's for foundations as you say.

Originally Posted by truckster

This site will give you an approximate frost depth for your area:

https://www.hammerpedia.com/nevada-frost-line/

I'd go 4 to 6 inches below the frost line just to be safe. If you're using galvanized you don't need a primer, but if you use uncoated steel, make sure you have primer all the way from the bottom to above the ground level. I usually dry-set fence posts, meaning I pour the mix in dry and then add water.

We're 10 inches, thanks for the link. When you say go 4-6 inches below that (i.e., 14-16 my case), do you mean the total depth of the hole?

I've never tried dry set. There's a video a guy pulled one out of the ground, looked real good. My neck says I should try it, too old for this )(&)(.

[special-K]

I've never heard of concern for frost heaving when it comes to fencing. The only fencing I see heaving is the plastic crap. The concern for depth is to be adequate to anchor the post in an upright position, and that is 1/3 of the length of post in the hole, 4' up/2' down. And that's minimum. Using concrete actually helps rot the wood, at least in my climate. It's a better idea to tamp gravel. For structural posts I pour a footer at required frostline depth, or drop in a 'biscuit', set post, and tamp the stone in. Does your county actually inspect fence post holes? I deal with counties with what I thought were the most ridiculous requirements on Earth and I've never heard of fencing being held to a frostline code, only placement in some jurisdictions

I have never used steel posts for a wood fence because there is no practical reason to, generally. The posts outlast the rails on wood fence as it is. Wood to wood is always easier than wood to steel. Galvanized breaks down and rusts same as pressure treated could eventually rot. The lime in that concrete will eat at that steel and it will rot through at the top surface of the concrete. That's where steel railing fails.

We are 30" in my part of MD. Cross the county line south and it's 24". We sure are colder this side of the line . Up in the mountains of Western Maryland it's 36". The deepest I know is in Maine where my sister lives it's 48". I have never seen the ground freeze more than 18" and that was a record cold year where the Chesapeake Bay froze over. That was winter 76/77. I was in California, so I didn't actually see it . I think a foot is the worst I've seen... many years ago

[4u2nv]

In this neck of the woods you would never ever get away without going 4 ft. down , Iv'e put a lot of work into my fence and I don't want to look at it 5 years from now and see a roller coaster.
I have a telephone post at the corner of my lot line and over the years it has worked it's way out a foot from frost heave

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by special-K

I've never heard of concern for frost heaving when it comes to fencing. The only fencing I see heaving is the plastic crap. The concern for depth is to be adequate to anchor the post in an upright position, and that is 1/3 of the length of post in the hole, 4' up/2' down. And that's minimum. Using concrete actually helps rot the wood, at least in my climate. It's a better idea to tamp gravel. For structural posts I pour a footer at required frostline depth, or drop in a 'biscuit', set post, and tamp the stone in. Does your county actually inspect fence post holes? I deal with counties with what I thought were the most ridiculous requirements on Earth and I've never heard of fencing being held to a frostline code, only placement in some jurisdictions

I have never used steel posts for a wood fence because there is no practical reason to, generally. The posts outlast the rails on wood fence as it is. Wood to wood is always easier than wood to steel. Galvanized breaks down and rusts same as pressure treated could eventually rot. The lime in that concrete will eat at that steel and it will rot through at the top surface of the concrete. That's where steel railing fails.

We are 30" in my part of MD. Cross the county line south and it's 24". We sure are colder this side of the line . Up in the mountains of Western Maryland it's 36". The deepest I know is in Maine where my sister lives it's 48". I have never seen the ground freeze more than 18" and that was a record cold year where the Chesapeake Bay froze over. That was winter 76/77. I was in California, so I didn't actually see it . I think a foot is the worst I've seen... many years ago

Nah, this county doesn't regulate fences.

Not the first time I've heard concrete contributes to rot. My former father in law was a concrete engineer and swore concrete off for fence posts. All I can say is his posts didn't last but 10-14 years, I've never had one fail. I set the concrete 1.5" above the surface - 6-8" of gravel below the post.

Soil varies, agree. Sinking them in gravel is an interesting idea. I agree, steel posts are generally impracticable. I can talk the guy out of it

Originally Posted by 4u2nv

In this neck of the woods you would never ever get away without going 4 ft. down , Iv'e put a lot of work into my fence and I don't want to look at it 5 years from now and see a roller coaster.
I have a telephone post at the corner of my lot line and over the years it has worked it's way out a foot from frost heave

Good to know. I was looking at depth from a anchor perspective. I really didn't consider frost line, because it's not relevant for fence posts here....My OP must be off where heaving is concerned, you guys gave the clue it occurs when the frost line is below the post.

[truckster]

I would go 18 inches total depth. That puts you well below the frost line and gives you good purchase on the ground (in sandy soil I would go 24 inches). Set the post exactly where you want it and pour your dry mix all around it. Tamp it down a little, and then pour plenty of water over it - at least a gallon (the excess will drain off). In my opinion, it's actually stronger because the dry mix will conform exactly to the contours of the hole.

[joedoh]

I have done it, steel posts and wood runners. they sell a bracket that goes over the round post to hold your 2x4 runners.

its 36" for frost here in south central ks, the way I did it was post hole dig 3' and a little extra, pour in a little gravel, put the post in position, hold level (the magnetic post level is a nice piece), pour in quickrete and then water on top. the gravel pulls any water away from the post bottom.


although I put an 8.5' gate on one corner of the fence instead of 2 4' gates (concrete driveway, didnt want a center post or hole in the concrete) so I used an 8x8 treated post. I dug 5 feet and flared at the bottom, I think it took 2.5 backs of concrete for the hole. hit a lot of roots at that depth but in a tornado I would probably lash myself to that post. a tow truck hit that corner once, destroyed the gate, didnt even budge the post.

good luck!

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Originally Posted by joedoh

I have done it, steel posts and wood runners. they sell a bracket that goes over the round post to hold your 2x4 runners.

its 36" for frost here in south central ks, the way I did it was post hole dig 3' and a little extra, pour in a little gravel, put the post in position, hold level (the magnetic post level is a nice piece), pour in quickrete and then water on top. the gravel pulls any water away from the post bottom.


although I put an 8.5' gate on one corner of the fence instead of 2 4' gates (concrete driveway, didnt want a center post or hole in the concrete) so I used an 8x8 treated post. I dug 5 feet and flared at the bottom, I think it took 2.5 backs of concrete for the hole. hit a lot of roots at that depth but in a tornado I would probably lash myself to that post. a tow truck hit that corner once, destroyed the gate, didnt even budge the post.

good luck!

Wow, sounds more like 4 bags concrete. Biggest post I put in was 6x6 at the top corner. I wasn't completely straight when I wrote I'd never lost a post. A guy was literally insured 20 minutes when he came off the road front first. His van scattered four boulders, one weighs 2-3 ton, and of course snapped the post.....................I earned $2800 on that deal The boulders ended up in the covert and had to be moved. A guy quoted $2400 to move the boulders, and two sections of fence quoted over $600. I don't have heavy equipment, but I do have gravity.

[special-K]

I have dozens of posts set in concrete on my property, including fencing. I have had one clothes line post (4x4) break off at ground level last year. It had been set for 30 years. That is also a free standing post that carries weight pulling to one direction only. I have recently began tamping stone instead, if sinking posts in holes. When building structures I use base anchors on top of pier.

[blazer2007]

I,ve always tamped gravel in my posts with wood fence posts, all the ones in my neighborhood with cement have broken off from rot. I,ve done my fence twice in 20 plus years and they are on their third fence

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Ironically I just visited a house that still has the posts I dropped in 1994. The posts are just untreated redwood. They're rocking some, but I'm twice anal now. That and the guy parked his lawn along the fence line. Same against the house, I never understood the logic. My ex. may buy the place, we lived next door (yikes).

Soil & climate varies no doubt. I can say we get the wind. IMO, 6" or so base coarse gravel below the post, and unlike my old posts the concrete must remain above the surface. I now use frames, putty knife & dirt to form the top. Looks nice and fence board cuts are easy.

Here's my "new" fence. It's about 200 feet, how's that for a straight line? I installed it 20 years ago. In hindsight I'd have used 4 x 6" only instead of staggering. IMO the 4x4s are good another 10-13 years, and the 4x6s 20 or so.