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Old 11-18-2010, 01:29 AM   #1
dfairchild19
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Berthas Cummins Build

This is the build of Berthas.

At this point I am well underway on her.

I bought the 1971 Chevrolet in February 2010. I started collecting parts and pieces while I let her sit until about June due to the cold weather and a busy schedule. Once summer hit I started on her full out to create what I have so far today. I will post the specs and the pictures I received before I bought the truck for this first post and I will update here and there as I have time until we are caught up to present day.

On to the good stuff:

Drivetrain Specs:

1994 6bt Cummins
NV4500
NP205
D60/14 bolt

There are lots of plans for many different areas on the truck that I will cover as I go along. I have collected more parts than I even know that I have right now so I just have to wait to til I get to certain points to actually start putting those parts together to create a truck.

Here are some base pictures to give you an idea of the truck as it sat in the previous owner's possesion. Don't mind the creepy guy in the fourth pic......










Last edited by dfairchild19; 05-26-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:10 PM   #2
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Re: Berthas Build

I drove the truck onto the trailer with the 350/350/205 that was in it and she seemed to run great. I thought about adding a few things to get her road worthy but it just wasnt worth it to me so I just decided to dive in and start the disassembly. It had a 2 inch body lift on it to help clear the supposed 33 inch sidewinder mud tires that will be no longer. I will most likely run a 1 inch body lift to help with clearances for the new drive train.









And then I found these...





I started on the rebuild of the D60 and 14 bolt and between work and waiting on parts it took about 6 weeks and a small fortune to take them from that ^^^^^^ to this vvvvvvv:









While I waited on parts for rebuilding the axles I decided to "make" some parts on the waterjet for the axles in the meantime:

U-bolt plates:



Shackles:



Steering arm and springless kingpin cap for the 60:









In the middle of building the axles and all of the other parts for them I decided that it would be nice to have a good, solid table to work from. So I built one. The frame of the table was completely overkill being out of 2x4 boxed 3/16 wall tube, but I had the material left over from another project and I will have this thing to use forever. I cannot even explain how much it has helped me having this table for this project. The table is not finished yet as I plan to add brackets and shelves for my welder and other tools, but I could not have built it at a better time:



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Old 11-18-2010, 01:12 PM   #3
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Re: Berthas Build

Looks like you've got a good truck to start with, best of luck on the build!

Nice work on the axles too!
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:48 PM   #4
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Re: Berthas Build

Looks good so far! Cant wait to see the cummins swap!
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:57 PM   #5
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Re: Berthas Build

Looks great! Wish I could find a Dana 60
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Old 11-21-2010, 02:27 PM   #6
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Re: Berthas Build

Thanks for the good words everyone!
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:53 PM   #7
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Re: Berthas Build

When I finished the table and painted the axles and parts I put the axles under the truck and attached them with the ubolts and ubolt plates that I made. I threw on the wheels and tires I got for it and this is how she sat for a bit while I went to work on the removal of the Cummins and NV4500 from the Dodge.



Once I removed the engine and trans from the Dodge I pushed it outside, set the Cummins aside, and started on the conversion of the nv4500 from 2wd to 4wd. This was a bit of a process because my original plan was to just take all of the parts from the 2wd mainshaft and transfer them to a stock 4wd mainshaft then add the 4wd tail housing and run it that way since the trans seemed to be in good driving condition when it was in the Dodge. I then decided to order the upgraded mainshaft so that I wouldn't have the 5th gear nut issue to worry about. Then I decided that I might as well do it right and do it once and do a full rebuild so that I wouldn't have to worry about it for a long while.

Here are some pics of the rebuild:

2wd nv4500



Pulling off 5th gear with a tool I made



Empty Case



Sea of parts



Finally finished and buttoned up


Last edited by dfairchild19; 11-21-2010 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 11-21-2010, 04:38 PM   #8
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Re: Berthas Build

Looks like that table has been put to use yet again! You have a great build going on and i'm looking foward to following it.

I am totally envious of your shop!! I'm so tired of working in the dirt.. and now the cold, it showed last night..
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Old 11-21-2010, 04:51 PM   #9
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Re: Berthas Build

After I finished rebuilding the trans I set it aside and started working on the frame so I could get the the drive train together to start mocking up the motor mounts, trans mount and cross members. I removed the original Chevy motor crossmember, trans crossmember, and transfer case crossmember and then welded in a new temporary crossmember to keep the frame shifting to a minimum. From there I started filling in holes that I will not use in the engine and trans areas of the frame. I will fill the rest of the holes later. After the holes were filled, I tacked in some boxing plates in the motor mount and trans mount areas so that I could get the drive train in to start mocking the mounts for everything.

Original engine crossmember


engine crossmember out and original trans and rear crossmember


Original crossmembers out and holes filled




Boxing plates tacked in for mock up




After getting the frame boxed enough to mock up the driveline mounts I set the drivetrain between the rails and threw the cab on its mounts to start the process of figuring out the final location of the drivetrain.







Here is how she sits right now:

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Old 11-21-2010, 05:10 PM   #10
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Re: Berthas Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp rat View Post
Looks like that table has been put to use yet again! You have a great build going on and i'm looking foward to following it.

I am totally envious of your shop!! I'm so tired of working in the dirt.. and now the cold, it showed last night..
Oh yeah, I cannot tell you how much I have used this table for rebuilding, welding, fabricating, and just anything I need the surface for. It was well worth it to build the table before I got too far into the build.

The barn is not heated so I am no stranger to working in the cold!! And it is definately not fun!! I am working on sealing up the open spots in the barn so that I can run a heater of some sort this winter so that it will be more comfortable to work out there. Its a 60x40 steel barn and I am not sure what the best and most efficient method would be to heat it.

Anyone have any suggestions?
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:14 PM   #11
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Re: Berthas Build

this is awesome. keep it up.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:24 PM   #12
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Re: Berthas Build

what size of lift and tires did you go with? You make your own motor mounts, have any pics? I like where you are going with this project. Is the transfercase from the donor dodge truck?
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:35 AM   #13
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Re: Berthas Build

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Originally Posted by Chevymaniac View Post
what size of lift and tires did you go with? You make your own motor mounts, have any pics? I like where you are going with this project. Is the transfer case from the donor dodge truck?
The lift is 4" Tuff Country front springs and a 4" blocks in the rear under the massive spring packs. The tires are 375/60/R16 if I remember right. I do know that the standard size of the tires is 33x15.50xR16.

I have not made my motor mounts yet. I plan to once my mid mount A/C setup gets figured out so that I can get it away from the frame rail on the passenger side. I will also fab new transmission and transfer case cross members as well when I figure out the final position of this massive drivetrain.

The donor truck is a 94 Dodge 2wd. If you didn't notice in some of my posts, i converted the 2wd nv4500 to 4wd. I bought the 29 spline Dodge np205 from a member on another forum. I haven't gotten into the 205 yet to rebuild but I am hopeful that it will be solid.
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Old 12-07-2010, 10:45 AM   #14
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Re: Berthas Build

Not much of an update but I figured I might let everyone know whats going on at the moment.

I am waiting to find a supplier for the mid mount F6 or 7 or 800 A/C and alternator mount so that I can get started on the fabrication of the engine mounts, engine cross member, trans mount, trans cross member, and transfer case cross member. I am ready to do it, I just need the components in their final positions so that I don't run into unexpected interferences if I were to mount the components after I finalized all of the mounts and cross members.

I would also like to get ahold of a hydroboost unit to see if I will have any interference between it and the air intake plenum.

I will update when I get these figured out and start the fab work hopefully in the next week or so.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:49 PM   #15
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Re: Berthas Build

I'm not understanding your need to find a supplier for the water inlet housing (a/c mount). Is it that there are no Cummins dealers near you?? If that is the case, I may be able to help.

On the hydroboost unit, I recommend a unit from a 88-99 C/K truck (not the R/V old body style). The mounting plate is an easy adapt to your firewall. Take it off, drill two holes, move the lower studs to those holes and you're done.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:23 AM   #16
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Re: Berthas Build

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Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
I'm not understanding your need to find a supplier for the water inlet housing (a/c mount). Is it that there are no Cummins dealers near you?? If that is the case, I may be able to help.

On the hydroboost unit, I recommend a unit from a 88-99 C/K truck (not the R/V old body style). The mounting plate is an easy adapt to your firewall. Take it off, drill two holes, move the lower studs to those holes and you're done.
You might be just the person to talk this over with, and I meant to ask you about your setup. Would you mind listing the specs on the components you used and a ballpark price you paid for them if you dont mind.

Well I thought I had a dealer lined up on 4btswaps with a used mount and new compressor and alternator but I haven't heard anything from him in over a week so I'm not sure what's going on there.

As far as the hydroboost, I noticed that you used a unit from a 99? C3500? And I was planning to source one from a similar application but now that I know an exact range of years to look for it will make it that much easier. How did you go about running and matching lines and fittings between the dodge power steering pump and the chevy steering box and hydroboost unit?

Once again your trial and error saves me a ton of time and hassle!

Thanks again moses!!
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:19 AM   #17
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Re: Berthas Build

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Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
You might be just the person to talk this over with, and I meant to ask you about your setup. Would you mind listing the specs on the components you used and a ballpark price you paid for them if you dont mind.
Oof, I will have to deal with that ogre in my file cabinet labeled "Suburban" to get that information. Keep in mind, the only parts I bought were the water inlet housing itself (a/c compressor mount) and the upper alternator bracket. I tried buying the lower alternator mount, but it still hasn't arrived. I had to make my own lower hose fitting and I bet you will have to also. You're not going to like this, but, you will need a water outlet (thermostat housing) that points straight up and the corresponding thermostat and seals. The water outlet you have will get in the way of the upper alternator bracket (can be modified), but the biggest issue is the forward part of the housing gets in the way of your new belt routing. It can be routed around it, but you will end up with, maybe, 90* wrap on at least two high drag components. I thought this was such a bad situation that I sold my housing, seals and thermostat like you have on your motor and went with the straight up one (after trying another one also).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
Well I thought I had a dealer lined up on 4btswaps with a used mount and new compressor and alternator but I haven't heard anything from him in over a week so I'm not sure what's going on there.
Gee sir, I have money that I want to trade to you for those items you have for sale. Can I please give you my money?? Please?? Nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
As far as the hydroboost, I noticed that you used a unit from a 99? C3500? And I was planning to source one from a similar application but now that I know an exact range of years to look for it will make it that much easier. How did you go about running and matching lines and fittings between the dodge power steering pump and the chevy steering box and hydroboost unit?
The lines were a real bish. If I had it to do again, I would cut the upper fittings off and have a hose company make the lower ends with a higher quality hose in between. I can give you numbers on the hoses and as soon as you try to make them work you will inderstand why I say that. That being said, if you can get hoses out of a wrecking yard like the ones that I have, grab them and use the booster ends with new hose and make some new lower fittings. This is a REAL fun part of the project.

The Dodge power steering pump is not a Dodge power steering pump. It is a Saginaw pump manufactured by GM. Yup, the same GM as made the hydroboost that you are going to get and the steering box you have. The pump and hydroboost will have o-ring fittings. Your box has inverted flare fittings. You can have lines custom made with o-rings on one end and flares on the other. You can also get a steering box out of a GM straight axle 4x4, 1981 and newer to install. It will bolt in and have the superior sealing o-ring ports on it. That is what I did on mine. I found a virgin steering box on a 90 V20 Suburban and rebuilt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
Once again your trial and error saves me a ton of time and hassle!

Thanks again moses!!
I'm envious. You have someone to ask questions to!!
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:19 PM   #18
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Re: Berthas Build

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Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
Oof, I will have to deal with that ogre in my file cabinet labeled "Suburban" to get that information. Keep in mind, the only parts I bought were the water inlet housing itself (a/c compressor mount) and the upper alternator bracket. I tried buying the lower alternator mount, but it still hasn't arrived. I had to make my own lower hose fitting and I bet you will have to also. You're not going to like this, but, you will need a water outlet (thermostat housing) that points straight up and the corresponding thermostat and seals. The water outlet you have will get in the way of the upper alternator bracket (can be modified), but the biggest issue is the forward part of the housing gets in the way of your new belt routing. It can be routed around it, but you will end up with, maybe, 90* wrap on at least two high drag components. I thought this was such a bad situation that I sold my housing, seals and thermostat like you have on your motor and went with the straight up one (after trying another one also).
I believe I understand what all it takes for this setup to work properly. The vendor that I had lined up said that either he or Cummins offers a kit to run this setup. This included the inlet housing/compressor mount that bolts to the block, an upper and lower alternator mount, a new straight up upper water outlet neck, a new lower water inlet neck that turns 90 left out of the housing then 90 down(wont work), a tensioner and tensioner bracket, as well as a new compressor and alternator. The package of all brand new components came to a total of a little over $1100. I believe that I would be able to use everything in the kit except for the lower inlet neck which I could use a neck that just comes straight out of the housing similar to the one you ended up going with. I should be able to use the lower tensioner bracket and tensioner depending on how much the bracket tries to interfere with the frame as I can just fab a notch into the frame since it will be fully boxed and will not compromise the strength of the frame.

It is definitely more than I wanted to shell out for this setup and he supposedly has his alternator and custom made to a one wire 22 si higher output and his compressor lines custom made to a specific orientation as well. I have no experience with this setup to know if any of this is needed or if either of these components are available off the shelf which is part of the reason I asked for the specs for your setup and how much you had wrapped up in it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
Gee sir, I have money that I want to trade to you for those items you have for sale. Can I please give you my money?? Please?? Nice.
Yeah, I'm not sure what is going on with this. He was usually pretty good about answering my PMs but just stopped responding for some reason. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's just busy or has a personal issue to tend to or something along those lines but I sure would like to get a move on this......


Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
The lines were a real bish. If I had it to do again, I would cut the upper fittings off and have a hose company make the lower ends with a higher quality hose in between. I can give you numbers on the hoses and as soon as you try to make them work you will inderstand why I say that. That being said, if you can get hoses out of a wrecking yard like the ones that I have, grab them and use the booster ends with new hose and make some new lower fittings. This is a REAL fun part of the project.

The Dodge power steering pump is not a Dodge power steering pump. It is a Saginaw pump manufactured by GM. Yup, the same GM as made the hydroboost that you are going to get and the steering box you have. The pump and hydroboost will have o-ring fittings. Your box has inverted flare fittings. You can have lines custom made with o-rings on one end and flares on the other. You can also get a steering box out of a GM straight axle 4x4, 1981 and newer to install. It will bolt in and have the superior sealing o-ring ports on it. That is what I did on mine. I found a virgin steering box on a 90 V20 Suburban and rebuilt it.
I have a Parker Store nearby but I am not sure if they would mess with these fittings or not. Its worth a shot to have high quality hoses that fit correctly I suppose. I'm not sure how I will give them something to make them off of short of taking the box, pump, and booster to them if I don't have the hoses to show the ends and also don't know the orientation of the hoses. Maybe that will become more apparent when I have the components all present and together. Search may help a bit too.

As for the steering box, I will not be running the stock 4wd unit. Instead I already planned to run a 2wd 81-87 box for crossover its splined input shaft that will mate up to an xj steering shaft to keep everything tight and do away with the rag joints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
I'm envious. You have someone to ask questions to!!
As you should be!!! Your help and experience with all of this is great but I also enjoy talking to you and others that have been down many of the same roads that I have been and will be. I know I could get by without having you and others to talk with and ask questions but it sure would be a whole different ball game than having access to pick your brain about all of this. I'm not sure that's a game that I want to play!!!
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:14 AM   #19
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Re: Berthas Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
I believe I understand what all it takes for this setup to work properly. The vendor that I had lined up said that either he or Cummins offers a kit to run this setup. This included the inlet housing/compressor mount that bolts to the block, an upper and lower alternator mount, a new straight up upper water outlet neck, a new lower water inlet neck that turns 90 left out of the housing then 90 down(wont work), a tensioner and tensioner bracket, as well as a new compressor and alternator. The package of all brand new components came to a total of a little over $1100. I believe that I would be able to use everything in the kit except for the lower inlet neck which I could use a neck that just comes straight out of the housing similar to the one you ended up going with. I should be able to use the lower tensioner bracket and tensioner depending on how much the bracket tries to interfere with the frame as I can just fab a notch into the frame since it will be fully boxed and will not compromise the strength of the frame.

It is definitely more than I wanted to shell out for this setup and he supposedly has his alternator and custom made to a one wire 22 si higher output and his compressor lines custom made to a specific orientation as well. I have no experience with this setup to know if any of this is needed or if either of these components are available off the shelf which is part of the reason I asked for the specs for your setup and how much you had wrapped up in it.
I'll check on what I have available for numbers etc. I got some deals on my parts, so my prices will not be relevant. The alternator that I bought from a local truck dealer was one wire right out of the box, so I don't think he is really doing anything for you on that one. I think most big truck alternators are self-energizing. There are a couple choices on compressors, so you will have to figure out which one will work. I reused my stock tensioner, but I relocated it.

3285102 might be the thermostat housing

3930822 is the connection, water inlet

3906697 are the seals for this part to the motor and to the hose fitting (x2)

3910495 M12 x 1.75 x 30 (X3) Bolts to retain housing to block

3900679 M10 x 1.50 x 80 (X3) Bolts to retain hose fitting

3930838 Bracket Belt tensioner

3924026 Belt tensioner asm

3904446 M10 x 1.50 x 70 Tensioner bolt

3918275 Alternator Pulley

3930820 lower alt mount

3920862 Brace, alternator (forward/upper bracket)

Sanden 4667 compressor. This is the one that I used. There is also a unit available off of a Class 8 Sterling tractor that has hose fittings coming out of the side of the rear head instead of out the rear like the one I used.

The bolt number are for reference only (you will need these bolts to mount this stuff, but buy them somewhere else). I have a belt tensioner mounting plate here if you decide you need one. I'm not going to use it. Look real close at how I ran my belt. It wouldn't surprise me if you end up with something very similar by the time you are done.






Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
I have a Parker Store nearby but I am not sure if they would mess with these fittings or not. Its worth a shot to have high quality hoses that fit correctly I suppose. I'm not sure how I will give them something to make them off of short of taking the box, pump, and booster to them if I don't have the hoses to show the ends and also don't know the orientation of the hoses. Maybe that will become more apparent when I have the components all present and together. Search may help a bit too.
There are only two different sizes of fittings. 16mm and 18mm. It is readily apparent which is which. Stop by and talk to your Parker store and discuss what you are doing and have them give a few suggestions on how to get the desired results. This is why having the ends off of some donor hoses may help--may not though.

Pump pressure hose fitting: 16mm
Hydroboost from pump: 18mm

Hydroboost to steering box: 16mm
Steering box from Hydroboost: 18mm

steering box return: 16mm

Get some extra o-rings. I use fuel injection line o-rings. Standard Motor Products is a number SK26. Very good thing to have around when you have that many fittings in service on one vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
As for the steering box, I will not be running the stock 4wd unit. Instead I already planned to run a 2wd 81-87 box for crossover its splined input shaft that will mate up to an xj steering shaft to keep everything tight and do away with the rag joints.
Make sure that xj shaft will talk to your steering column. The xj shafts that I have seen use a double d shaped femal end on the column end--not a splined female like your current intermediate shaft has.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
As you should be!!! Your help and experience with all of this is great but I also enjoy talking to you and others that have been down many of the same roads that I have been and will be. I know I could get by without having you and others to talk with and ask questions but it sure would be a whole different ball game than having access to pick your brain about all of this. I'm not sure that's a game that I want to play!!!
Hopefully yours willl take less time than mine. That list of part number took close to two weeks to figure out because I had no engine serial number to reference for parts. Nothing Cummins gets done withour a serial number or CPL number--NOTHING. There is no "I need the part that comes on all the Dodges that looks like this and does that" Relply: "Got a serial number??"
Luckily I found a guy who was a glutten for punishment and had the patience of a saint and he searched Cummins for many days digging up all the numbers and parts. I did what I could via the internet, but he really save my bacon on this part of the project.
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:51 PM   #20
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Re: Berthas Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
I'll check on what I have available for numbers etc. I got some deals on my parts, so my prices will not be relevant. The alternator that I bought from a local truck dealer was one wire right out of the box, so I don't think he is really doing anything for you on that one. I think most big truck alternators are self-energizing. There are a couple choices on compressors, so you will have to figure out which one will work. I reused my stock tensioner, but I relocated it.

3285102 might be the thermostat housing

3930822 is the connection, water inlet

3906697 are the seals for this part to the motor and to the hose fitting (x2)

3910495 M12 x 1.75 x 30 (X3) Bolts to retain housing to block

3900679 M10 x 1.50 x 80 (X3) Bolts to retain hose fitting

3930838 Bracket Belt tensioner

3924026 Belt tensioner asm

3904446 M10 x 1.50 x 70 Tensioner bolt

3918275 Alternator Pulley

3930820 lower alt mount

3920862 Brace, alternator (forward/upper bracket)

Sanden 4667 compressor. This is the one that I used. There is also a unit available off of a Class 8 Sterling tractor that has hose fittings coming out of the side of the rear head instead of out the rear like the one I used.

The bolt number are for reference only (you will need these bolts to mount this stuff, but buy them somewhere else). I have a belt tensioner mounting plate here if you decide you need one. I'm not going to use it. Look real close at how I ran my belt. It wouldn't surprise me if you end up with something very similar by the time you are done.
Thanks for those part numbers. They worked out great and I have some of them on order from my local Cummins dealer rather than working with an online dealer. This should speed things up a bit. In fact, I think that my parts from Cummins will be in this afternoon.

I am having a set of motor mounts/cross member cut out by a member on 4btswaps that I will be able to modify to fit my frame and stock 94 motor side mounts as well as the upper alt bracket notched to run the stock 94 water inlet and a lower tensioner bracket that is made to clear the frame a bit better. He does some pretty incredible work from what I can tell and sometimes my time saved from having all of the trial and error is worth more than the money it would take to just have someone cut them out for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
There are only two different sizes of fittings. 16mm and 18mm. It is readily apparent which is which. Stop by and talk to your Parker store and discuss what you are doing and have them give a few suggestions on how to get the desired results. This is why having the ends off of some donor hoses may help--may not though.

Pump pressure hose fitting: 16mm
Hydroboost from pump: 18mm

Hydroboost to steering box: 16mm
Steering box from Hydroboost: 18mm

steering box return: 16mm

Get some extra o-rings. I use fuel injection line o-rings. Standard Motor Products is a number SK26. Very good thing to have around when you have that many fittings in service on one vehicle.
I will try to make some time possibly Wednesday when I am up that way to stop in and see what they can offer for my situation.

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Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
Make sure that xj shaft will talk to your steering column. The xj shafts that I have seen use a double d shaped femal end on the column end--not a splined female like your current intermediate shaft has.
I bought an aftermarket floor shift column to replace my stock auto column and it has the male end similar to the double d female end of the xj shaft. That column with an 81-87 box should work perfect with an xj shaft if my research was all correct.

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Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
Hopefully yours willl take less time than mine. That list of part number took close to two weeks to figure out because I had no engine serial number to reference for parts. Nothing Cummins gets done withour a serial number or CPL number--NOTHING. There is no "I need the part that comes on all the Dodges that looks like this and does that" Relply: "Got a serial number??"
Luckily I found a guy who was a glutten for punishment and had the patience of a saint and he searched Cummins for many days digging up all the numbers and parts. I did what I could via the internet, but he really save my bacon on this part of the project.
The folks such as yourself that has provided all of these part numbers for these never ending rare parts allows me to spend more time out in the barn working on this beast rather than in a computer chair researching the crap out of the smallest details. This has already helped greatly as I think I am further than I ever thought I would be at this point and hopefully my research will contribute to other future projects of many others out there.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:35 PM   #21
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Re: Berthas Build

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Originally Posted by dfairchild19 View Post
I am having a set of motor mounts/cross member cut out by a member on 4btswaps that I will be able to modify to fit my frame and stock 94 motor side mounts as well as the upper alt bracket notched to run the stock 94 water inlet and a lower tensioner bracket that is made to clear the frame a bit better.
Draw me a picture of how you are going to route your belt around your accessories. When I was trying to use the Dodge water outlet like you have I could not route the belt in such a way to get an acceptable amount of wrap on the driven components--thus my vertical water outlet. On this same thought train, I have not seen anyone use the parts I used in conjunction with the water outlet you have route the belt in such a way to get good wrap on the components. Where the water outlet comes through the alternator bracket that you are having notched, it gets in the way of a straight shot off of the fan hub to the alternator. The belt can be re-routed, but it leaves the alternator and a/c compressor with what was 90* or less wrap. One dude over there couldn't figure out why his belt squealed when his a/c compressor engaged. That sucks.
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:44 AM   #22
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Re: Berthas Build

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Draw me a picture of how you are going to route your belt around your accessories. When I was trying to use the Dodge water outlet like you have I could not route the belt in such a way to get an acceptable amount of wrap on the driven components--thus my vertical water outlet. On this same thought train, I have not seen anyone use the parts I used in conjunction with the water outlet you have route the belt in such a way to get good wrap on the components. Where the water outlet comes through the alternator bracket that you are having notched, it gets in the way of a straight shot off of the fan hub to the alternator. The belt can be re-routed, but it leaves the alternator and a/c compressor with what was 90* or less wrap. One dude over there couldn't figure out why his belt squealed when his a/c compressor engaged. That sucks.


1 10270 Generator Support Strap
2 8A357 Water Inlet Support Bracket
3 8A616 Fan Clutch
4 8620 Drive Belt
5 2N211 Hydro-Max Pump (with Hydraulic Brakes Only)
6 3D673 Auxiliary Drive Pulley (Hydro-Max)
7 8620 Drive Belt
8 8501 Water Pump
9 6312 Crankshaft Pulley
10 - Generator Mounting Bracket (Part of 6010)
11 - Water Inlet Bracket(Part of 6010)
12 6B209 Drive Belt Tensioner
13 19D629 A/C Compressor
14 10300 Generator

This is the belt routing for an f800 that uses the mid mount a/c setup. Number 3 will be a bit lower in my application.

The belt will come from the crank pulley, over the fan pulley(number 3 in the diagram), down to the water pump pulley, up to the alternator, down to the a/c compressor, over the tensioner and back to the crank pulley just as in the diagram. I asked about the coverage on the compressor in particular and the one guy I talked to didn't seem to think it would be an issue and that it ends up wrapping the compressor more than it looks. It does not look like it will be the case for me but the only reason I am convinced that it will is because it is what they used from the factory(unless they didn't account for the wrap on the compressor pulley) for this model truck(f800) and I could not find in any searches where anyone had a problem with the belt screaming when the compressor clutch engaged.

What do you think about this? Did you ever get a chance to see this diagram?
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:36 PM   #23
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Re: Berthas Build

Well, I guess if it came from the factory that way it should work. I never found a diagram showing a belt routing with those components, so when I was engineering mine (from scratch--no diagram) I did not like the 90* of wrap that I was getting on the compressor, but after seeing this I guess it is ok. I just like to see more, personally.

Before you do anything, hang the water inlet on the motor and make sure your tensioner mount/plate is going to fit you frame rail. I bet there is going to be interference. I hope not, but I think mine got all over the frame rail. Thus the reason I still have one....
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:07 AM   #24
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Re: Berthas Build

Ok, the more I think about this, the more that is coming back to me. I could not put a tensioner on the plate down there because of framerail interference. With that, take a look at your pic and without a tensioner right there the belt doesn't even come close to 90* of wrap. No good.

So, nothing changes for you. I guess I just wanted to prove that I can still remember things that happened before yesterday. Check that tensioner mounting plate for clearance and hope for the best.....
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:32 AM   #25
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Re: Berthas Build

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Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
Well, I guess if it came from the factory that way it should work. I never found a diagram showing a belt routing with those components, so when I was engineering mine (from scratch--no diagram) I did not like the 90* of wrap that I was getting on the compressor, but after seeing this I guess it is ok. I just like to see more, personally.

Before you do anything, hang the water inlet on the motor and make sure your tensioner mount/plate is going to fit you frame rail. I bet there is going to be interference. I hope not, but I think mine got all over the frame rail. Thus the reason I still have one....
I mentioned in an earlier post that one of the mounting brackets I have someone cutting for me is a tensioner bracket that is clearanced to help clear the frame rail. It was easy to miss so you may just have over looked it in my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesburb View Post
Ok, the more I think about this, the more that is coming back to me. I could not put a tensioner on the plate down there because of framerail interference. With that, take a look at your pic and without a tensioner right there the belt doesn't even come close to 90* of wrap. No good.

So, nothing changes for you. I guess I just wanted to prove that I can still remember things that happened before yesterday. Check that tensioner mounting plate for clearance and hope for the best.....
That makes a bit more sense why you did not go with this setup then if you could not make the tensioner work there as there would obviously be very little contact with the compressor pulley. I agree with you that 90 degrees still seems to be on the light side but the only reason I am trying to make this setup work is because of the diagram I found showing that it was done this way from the factory.

Even if the tensioner bracket does come too close for my comfort (in my case anyways) I will have the option of notching the frame where it is close and box it in with the rest of the frame and still not take away from the strength of the frame. This is one heck of an obstacle that I think I have figured out for right now........ And it feels pretty darn good!!!



Along with that, all of my Cummins parts came in yesterday for the mid mount a/c setup and I was able to pick them up at lunch. It was a pretty penny for all of this stuff but it really wasn't as much as I would have thought for all that I got in return.

The compressor will be here today(out for delivery), the alternator should be here today or tomorrow, and the motor mounts/crossmember, upper alt mount, and tensioner mount will all be here friday or early next week hopefully in time for christmas time off of work to get this thing moving once again!!!!
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