Wires for starter?

[ShinyC10]

I've read just about every thread that has to do with wiring up a starter but idk if I'm just stupid or dumb. My truck is a 1986 Chevy p/u with a 350 in it. I've been having trouble with fusible links smoking the passed couple days after requiring it so I'm taking another stab but want to figure everything out. I need a step by step on how to wire up the alt/starter/jblock/ battery.
Right now I have:
1. Battery to big stud on starter
2.jblock to big stud on starter
3. There is a wire coming from the firewall that also goes to the big stud on starter
4. #2 terminal from alt going to the big stud aswell so that makes four? I believe the factory wiring had two of those four spliced to one fusible link?
5. Alt bat wire to jblock
6. And lastly, the fire to starter smaller stud.

Any corrections or easier ways to wire?
This is my daily driver and I've been walking everywhere the passed month lol I'm in need of help

[ShinyC10]

Just wired it back up. Runs but the wire from the jblock to the larger starter solenoid stud gets pretty warm while the others under the same stud aren't.

[ShinyC10]

Any suggestions?

[lsversaw]

Have you looked at the wiring diagram for your truck to verify that the wire gauge from the starter big stud to the junction block is correct? If that wire is getting hot, either it's too small in gauge OR the loads going through the other wires at the junction block are too high (but not high enough to heat them up).

After you make sure that the starter-large-stud-to-junction-block wire is the correct gauge, then check the rest of your starter-alternator-junction block wiring against the wiring diagram. The wire from the starter large stud through the firewall, in particular, sounds suspect. I think all the power that goes through the firewall should come from the junction block.

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by lsversaw

Have you looked at the wiring diagram for your truck to verify that the wire gauge from the starter big stud to the junction block is correct? If that wire is getting hot, either it's too small in gauge OR the loads going through the other wires at the junction block are too high (but not high enough to heat them up).

After you make sure that the starter-large-stud-to-junction-block wire is the correct gauge, then check the rest of your starter-alternator-junction block wiring against the wiring diagram. The wire from the starter large stud through the firewall, in particular, sounds suspect. I think all the power that goes through the firewall should come from the junction block.

My service manual is 250 miles away from me at the moment so that's not an option unfortunately. But a fella on here awhile back told me it was a 10g for that one and the other wires are 12g with the appropriate fusible links.

[franken]

The older trucks were simpler in the starter and solenoid weren't involved it the wiring of the truck. I think later ones like yours use the solenoid/starter for other connections.
If something is getting hot, it is resistive or carrying too much current.
You can remove the alternator and it has nothing to do with starting or running the engine--you'll just be running off the battery and not charge.
I'll guess the junction block is on the firewall, fed from the starter big starter terminal (#2 in post 1) and feeds the rest of the electrical system.
#6 would be to the solenoid S terminal to activate the solenoid, which turns on the starter.

Everything sounds right, maybe it could be done differently, but my guess is you need a bigger wire to replace the one that gets hot. I'd probably wire it so the junction block was the focal point rather than the starter. Or rather, 3 wires go to the solenoid. battery, start and junction block feed.

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by franken

The older trucks were simpler in the starter and solenoid weren't involved it the wiring of the truck. I think later ones like yours use the solenoid/starter for other connections.
If something is getting hot, it is resistive or carrying too much current.
You can remove the alternator and it has nothing to do with starting or running the engine--you'll just be running off the battery and not charge.
I'll guess the junction block is on the firewall, fed from the starter big starter terminal (#2 in post 1) and feeds the rest of the electrical system.
#6 would be to the solenoid S terminal to activate the solenoid, which turns on the starter.

Everything sounds right, maybe it could be done differently, but my guess is you need a bigger wire to replace the one that gets hot. I'd probably wire it so the junction block was the focal point rather than the starter. Or rather, 3 wires go to the solenoid. battery, start and junction block feed.

Well if I go with a bigger size wire for the onethat gets hot, it would be an 8g. How would a fusible link word for that? The only fusible links I can find are the 16 and 14g from oriellys and autozone. Would an inline fuse work fine cause that seems kinda silly having a fuse down there around the headers. If so, what size fuse?

PS: as far as making the jblock the focus point instead of the starter, how would that be possible?

[panhandler62]

It's also good to check that the engine is properly grounded to the frame and frame to body.

A compromised ground path will cause greater resistance (and heat) in the circuit.

[lsversaw]

I think the solution is easy:

1. Use fusible links only where they were originally used. I suspect that the wire from the starter to the terminal block was not a fusible link. Fusible links are a specified length for each application, with a specified resistance per foot. Normally not sold in spools.
2. Use the correct gauge of wire.
3. Wire it up as specified on the original wiring diagram.
4. As panhandler said above, check all the grounds. They're usually the first thing to go wrong.

Following all 4 items above will require a wiring diagram. You may be able to find a wiring diagram for your truck on this site. I think you'll get better answers if you ask questions about how to interpret the wiring diagram rather than answers about the wiring that's already on your truck, because a p.o. may have wreaked havoc on your truck wiring. We don't really know what it looks like.

Good luck. Let us know what you need next.

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by lsversaw

I think the solution is easy:

1. Use fusible links only where they were originally used. I suspect that the wire from the starter to the terminal block was not a fusible link. Fusible links are a specified length for each application, with a specified resistance per foot. Normally not sold in spools.
2. Use the correct gauge of wire.
3. Wire it up as specified on the original wiring diagram.
4. As panhandler said above, check all the grounds. They're usually the first thing to go wrong.

Following all 4 items above will require a wiring diagram. You may be able to find a wiring diagram for your truck on this site. I think you'll get better answers if you ask questions about how to interpret the wiring diagram rather than answers about the wiring that's already on your truck, because a p.o. may have wreaked havoc on your truck wiring. We don't really know what it looks like.

Good luck. Let us know what you need next.

Sounds good fellas. I'll check all those today

[Bluestep]

Shiny, a 10ga wire needs a huge load to heat up like that! What devices are in your pickup that can do that? Is there an audio amplifier? That wire carries all of the electrical load with the exception of the starter motor. A bad connection can cause a extra load and it will produce heat, feel around for other spots in the wiring that may be warm. Make sure all connections are made with shiny, clean metal and all crimps are made with a real crimper and not pliers. Go through them and clean them up.

With your pickup running and nothing else turned on the only draw should be the ignition system, and it doesn't draw that much. That wire is carrying the charging system load and could possibly heat up if it has a large alternator and an undercharged battery.

Keep us posted.

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by Bluestep

Shiny, a 10ga wire needs a huge load to heat up like that! What devices are in your pickup that can do that? Is there an audio amplifier? That wire carries all of the electrical load with the exception of the starter motor. A bad connection can cause a extra load and it will produce heat, feel around for other spots in the wiring that may be warm. Make sure all connections are made with shiny, clean metal and all crimps are made with a real crimper and not pliers. Go through them and clean them up.

With your pickup running and nothing else turned on the only draw should be the ignition system, and it doesn't draw that much. That wire is carrying the charging system load and could possibly heat up if it has a large alternator and an undercharged battery.

Keep us posted.

I copy/pasted from my other post a few weeks back. These are all the not factory electronics wired in. The battery might be a little undercharged from trying to start it a few days ago (trouble starting from sitting so long). That 10g wire seemed to be the only wire that was warm within the charging system. Everything else was fine.

-Subwoofer amp
https://www.woofersetc.com/p-11592-t...amplifier.html

-Components amp
http://www.woofersetc.com/p-6761-sol...ier-black.html

-Radio
RetroSound model 2

-6 keep it clean billet switches replacing all the factory switches
http://www.keepitcleanwiring.com/cat...illet-Switches

-Dakota digital VHX gauges

-2 10" mb quart shallow mount subwoofers
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...rt-RLP254.html

[Bluestep]

Shiny, disconnect all of your stereo equipment to see if the wire will stay cool. If it does (even if it doesn't) you may want to consider upgrading that wire (and others, like the alternator to junction block) to carry the additional load. See what the stereo equipment manufacturer recommends.
Look at all repairs and addition that were done just prior to this problem. Check for pinched wires.

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by Bluestep

Shiny, disconnect all of your stereo equipment to see if the wire will stay cool. If it does (even if it doesn't) you may want to consider upgrading that wire (and others, like the alternator to junction block) to carry the additional load. See what the stereo equipment manufacturer recommends.
Look at all repairs and addition that were done just prior to this problem. Check for pinched wires.

I pulled the fuses to everything and I mean everything. Only fuse in the box is the ignition and the choke. Wire was still getting hot. I don't think anyone sells 12g fusible links to go with an 8g wire if I upgrade that starter-junction block wire.

Idea: I recently took advice from another forum member and replaced my jblock with a 90's model jblock for convenience of repairing wires. I also keeper the alt wire from that same truck (8g wire with a 12g fusible link). Could I swap that with the starter-jblock wire and put a bigger wire on the alt batt stud with an inline fuse?

[Bluestep]

Yes you could use an inline fuse instead of a fusible link, BUT make sure that all of your connections are very good. An 8ga. wire seems suitable to me. The thing is if the fuse or fusible link burns out NOTHING works!

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by Bluestep

Yes you could use an inline fuse instead of a fusible link, BUT make sure that all of your connections are very good. An 8ga. wire seems suitable to me. The thing is if the fuse or fusible link burns out NOTHING works!

What size fuse would be okay for the alt-jblock?

[VetteVet]

I like this diagram I modified for the newer trucks with more accessories. It just shows the basics. It also shows the fusible links and their sizes, which are always 4 sizes smaller than the wire that they protect. If you can't find the FLs you might consider a high amp Maxi-Fuse.

There is some excellent advice in this thread the main theme of which is that you are feeding the electrical system from the starter with too small of a wire.




Disregard the word "field" I forgot to edit it out

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

I like this diagram I modified for the newer trucks with more accessories. It just shows the basics. It also shows the fusible links and their sizes, which are always 4 sizes smaller than the wire that they protect. If you can't find the FLs you might consider a high amp Maxi-Fuse.

There is some excellent advice in this thread the main theme of which is that you are feeding the electrical system from the starter with too small of a wire.


Attachment 1571921

Disregard the word "field" I forgot to edit it out

From my factory wiring, your diagram looks like a significant setup. In theory, this will work the same as the factory wiring, but more efficient? Also, these maxi-fuses; what exactly is the difference between a regular online fuse and these? Are they just bigger?

[Bluestep]

Shiny, is the wire from the alternator to the j.block heating up or just the starter-j.block wire? The one you have from the wrecking yard should be okay for the starter-j.-block wire. Have you cleaned up the ring terminals on these wires? A little corrosion can cause a significant voltage drop and heat. Also have you driven it enough to recharge the battery to see if the heat is just short term? If it is not actually burning out the fusible link you may try that. (I am just assuming you do not have access to a battery charger right now.)

A maxi-fuse is the large blade type fuse used on later model vehicles for large amp applications.

Amazon has fusible link wire of the larger sizes and I didn't look but probably has fuse holders for the maxi-fuses.

Did you ever determine what caused the constant starter engagement?

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by Bluestep

Shiny, is the wire from the alternator to the j.block heating up or just the starter-j.block wire? The one you have from the wrecking yard should be okay for the starter-j.-block wire. Have you cleaned up the ring terminals on these wires? A little corrosion can cause a significant voltage drop and heat. Also have you driven it enough to recharge the battery to see if the heat is just short term? If it is not actually burning out the fusible link you may try that. (I am just assuming you do not have access to a battery charger right now.)

A maxi-fuse is the large blade type fuse used on later model vehicles for large amp applications.

Amazon has fusible link wire of the larger sizes and I didn't look but probably has fuse holders for the maxi-fuses.

Did you ever determine what caused the constant starter engagement?

Bluestep,
Yes, from what I felt from all the wires involved in the charging system, the starter-jblock was the only wire that was getting hot. No I haven't driven it at all in the last few weeks cause that wire has me scared its going to melt and destroy all my wiring again. I plan on finding the exact same 8g wire with the 12g fusible link at the junk yard tomorrow hopefully. And I have oriellys to charge my battery and as far as I know and with the help of my dad over the phone, my S terminal wire on the starter was melted to the alternator wire so I'm gonna go with that being the problem.

[Bluestep]

Shiny, I went to your profile and looked through your postings. It looks like you have had problem after problem that I would say are caused by one thing; your stereo system.

My opinion now is you have 2 choices to avoid future problems,
1. Remove both amplifiers and just run the speakers off of the head unit.
2. Upgrade the charging system to properly power the stereo system. This means at the minimum a high amperage alternator and an auxiliary battery and corresponding heavy enough wiring all the way from the battery to the amplifiers. At the maximum a completely separate power supply system with a separate alternator as well.

As it is now your battery is in a constant state of being undercharged and your alternator is constantly attempting to recharge it whenever you drive it, and probably never does completely. The wiring, while adequate for it's intended use, is too small for the heavy constant draw of the stereo and the heavy recharging.

I liked your thread on the dashboard wrap. How has it held up this far?

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by Bluestep

Shiny, I went to your profile and looked through your postings. It looks like you have had problem after problem that I would say are caused by one thing; your stereo system.

My opinion now is you have 2 choices to avoid future problems,
1. Remove both amplifiers and just run the speakers off of the head unit.
2. Upgrade the charging system to properly power the stereo system. This means at the minimum a high amperage alternator and an auxiliary battery and corresponding heavy enough wiring all the way from the battery to the amplifiers. At the maximum a completely separate power supply system with a separate alternator as well.

As it is now your battery is in a constant state of being undercharged and your alternator is constantly attempting to recharge it whenever you drive it, and probably never does completely. The wiring, while adequate for it's intended use, is too small for the heavy constant draw of the stereo and the heavy recharging.

I liked your thread on the dashboard wrap. How has it held up this far?

Well that's not what I would like to hear lol i actually stated having problems when I cleaned the carb after I got some crappy gas. When I put the top of the carb back on one of my fusible links caught fire. Ever since then I been had problems. Before that day, I had all my audio stuff in and installed and running for awhile. I guess I had pushed on a wire that day and created future problems.
Well I'm going to wire this thing up according to vettevet's diagram and hopefully that works. If not I'll unplug the amps and deal with the silence for awhile.
Oh and the dash worked for awhile then the glue started to unstick around the gauges. So I've been slowly working on a dash now that I got finished just practicing my sewing before I try to wrap it. I was using some local 2 way stretch vinyl at the time of that thread so it didn't work so well.

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by ShinyC10

Well that's not what I would like to hear lol i actually stated having problems when I cleaned the carb after I got some crappy gas. When I put the top of the carb back on one of my fusible links caught fire. Ever since then I been had problems. Before that day, I had all my audio stuff in and installed and running for awhile. I guess I had pushed on a wire that day and created future problems.
Well I'm going to wire this thing up according to vettevet's diagram and hopefully that works. If not I'll unplug the amps and deal with the silence for awhile.
Oh and the dash worked for awhile then the glue started to unstick around the gauges. So I've been slowly working on a dash now that I got finished just practicing my sewing before I try to wrap it. I was using some local 2 way stretch vinyl at the time of that thread so it didn't work so well.

In addition, a guy on here told me that my audio equipment shouldn't be pulling that much all together. That's why I didn't really think of it as the main culprit. I figured wire it up correctly and it should be cool.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by ShinyC10

Well that's not what I would like to hear lol i actually stated having problems when I cleaned the carb after I got some crappy gas. When I put the top of the carb back on one of my fusible links caught fire. Ever since then I been had problems. Before that day, I had all my audio stuff in and installed and running for awhile. I guess I had pushed on a wire that day and created future problems.
Well I'm going to wire this thing up according to vettevet's diagram and hopefully that works. If not I'll unplug the amps and deal with the silence for awhile.
Oh and the dash worked for awhile then the glue started to unstick around the gauges. So I've been slowly working on a dash now that I got finished just practicing my sewing before I try to wrap it. I was using some local 2 way stretch vinyl at the time of that thread so it didn't work so well.

I don't have the expertise that many on the forum do in wiring up the Stereo systems. But if I were to wire in a high amp load like that I would run a completely separate circuit off the battery positive cable to the stereo circuit using a separate junction block or even an auxiliary battery with an isolator for charging. i think there is a section in the forums on just that.

When I first read your thread I saw the starter problem and I thought you might have had a S terminal to main battery cable short which could have resulted in the main feed wire from the alternator heating up trying to compensate for the huge voltage draw the short would cause. I just didn't see enough in your post to confirm that.

I hope we will get some better experts on the stereo wiring to chime in and help you solve this problem. VV


Here is the place to go. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/f...ysprune=&f=111

[ShinyC10]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

I don't have the expertise that many on the forum do in wiring up the Stereo systems. But if I were to wire in a high amp load like that I would run a completely separate circuit off the battery positive cable to the stereo circuit using a separate junction block or even an auxiliary battery with an isolator for charging. i think there is a section in the forums on just that.

When I first read your thread I saw the starter problem and I thought you might have had a S terminal to main battery cable short which could have resulted in the main feed wire from the alternator heating up trying to compensate for the huge voltage draw the short would cause. I just didn't see enough in your post to confirm that.

I hope we will get some better experts on the stereo wiring to chime in and help you solve this problem. VV


Here is the place to go. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/f...ysprune=&f=111

I'll post my setup there and see what kind of feedback I get. Thanks guys for the help. I'll keep Thai thread updated for wander-by-ers.