The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > General Truck Forums > Engine & Drivetrain

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2016, 12:41 AM   #176
elkniks
Active Member

 
elkniks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seaside,CA
Posts: 125
Re: 700R4 build thread.

I recently had my local shop build a 700 for me and it feels fine under normal driving but when i get on the throttle it seems to shift too soon and will not downshift when getting hard on the throttle also. The transmission will not allow the engine to reach high rpms and make any power. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I did some research and came across SSS (short spring syndrome). I have not gone back to the shop with it yet, last time I talked with the builder he said "thats as good as I can get it without more money" so now I feel that I should just fix it myself. If I were to do it all over again, I would have just rebuilt my own tranny. Thanks for any info!
elkniks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 01:01 AM   #177
BADAZ chevy guy
Registered User
 
BADAZ chevy guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Clearfield Utah
Posts: 638
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Interesting. That's just the opposite of what mine is doing. Mine wont shift at all under heavy throttle. Driving normal it shifts fine through all 4 gears. I'm going to look into it more this Spring when it gets warmer.
__________________
My build thread. 1977 C10 short box. >>>> http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=624182

700R4 build thread. >>> http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...36#post6740236
BADAZ chevy guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 12:10 AM   #178
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkniks View Post
I recently had my local shop build a 700 for me and it feels fine under normal driving but when i get on the throttle it seems to shift too soon and will not downshift when getting hard on the throttle also. The transmission will not allow the engine to reach high rpms and make any power. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I did some research and came across SSS (short spring syndrome). I have not gone back to the shop with it yet, last time I talked with the builder he said "thats as good as I can get it without more money" so now I feel that I should just fix it myself. If I were to do it all over again, I would have just rebuilt my own tranny. Thanks for any info!
If the TV cable is getting full pull at WOT.....Even if the spring is short....Your still getting max TV & the Trans is shifting solely on Governor pressure, SSS causes no off idle pressure & is a Friction killer, Do you have a pressure gauge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BADAZ chevy guy View Post
Interesting. That's just the opposite of what mine is doing. Mine wont shift at all under heavy throttle. Driving normal it shifts fine through all 4 gears. I'm going to look into it more this Spring when it gets warmer.
How are your pressures? What Governor did you end up using?
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 02:25 AM   #179
BADAZ chevy guy
Registered User
 
BADAZ chevy guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Clearfield Utah
Posts: 638
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clinebarger View Post
If the TV cable is getting full pull at WOT.....Even if the spring is short....Your still getting max TV & the Trans is shifting solely on Governor pressure, SSS causes no off idle pressure & is a Friction killer, Do you have a pressure gauge?



How are your pressures? What Governor did you end up using?
Pressures are still okay sense we figured them out. Although, I'm still not sure why there was the high pressure in the first place. The Governor came from another late model 700R4. I checked it over before installing it and it all looked good. The shift points went back closer to normal after that, except under heavy acceleration. Like trying to get ahead of traffic before the next light. Then it just wont shift. I have back out of the throttle to get it into 2nd. 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th still seem to shift fine. I had a local transmission shop the TV cable and they said it was right.
__________________
My build thread. 1977 C10 short box. >>>> http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=624182

700R4 build thread. >>> http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...36#post6740236
BADAZ chevy guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2016, 08:06 PM   #180
elkniks
Active Member

 
elkniks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Seaside,CA
Posts: 125
Re: 700R4 build thread.

I am going to put together a pressure gauge and check it out. I realize that without a gauge i am just guessing. I do know that the shop that built the transmission spent some time with the governor also, he had the truck for two days after I installed the transmission. My next step will be checking pressures.
elkniks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2016, 04:48 PM   #181
joeyv69ragtop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 7
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Great post. a couple comments/questions.

What all comes with the 24243878 assembly? Mine came with a new GM 4 pinion input carrier, sun shell, and reaction shaft.

Also the spring part number for upgrading to the molded pistons is missing a number at the beginning. possibly a 2?
24206085 i think is the part number you meant to post.

great thread. looking forward to getting into my 700r4 with the guidance posted here.
joeyv69ragtop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 09:51 PM   #182
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyv69ragtop View Post
Great post. a couple comments/questions.

What all comes with the 24243878 assembly? Mine came with a new GM 4 pinion input carrier, sun shell, and reaction shaft.

Also the spring part number for upgrading to the molded pistons is missing a number at the beginning. possibly a 2?
24206085 i think is the part number you meant to post.

great thread. looking forward to getting into my 700r4 with the guidance posted here.
Thanks for catching that.

That's how 24243878 comes now, In '08 GM redesigned the bearing under the Input Carrier, The Carrier & Shaft were changed to accept the bearing....The reason they send the Input Carrier also.
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 04:02 PM   #183
joeyv69ragtop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 7
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clinebarger View Post
Thanks for catching that.

That's how 24243878 comes now, In '08 GM redesigned the bearing under the Input Carrier, The Carrier & Shaft were changed to accept the bearing....The reason they send the Input Carrier also.
Oh OK thanks for clearing that up. I thought I got away with something when there was a new input carrier in the box. Lol. Got all the way to the point where I need to remove the pump. Going well so far. Fluid is black as night and the 2nd accumulator spring was cracked in two. Can't wait to see how the clutches look.
joeyv69ragtop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 09:29 PM   #184
Rickysnickers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Poway, CA
Posts: 618
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkniks View Post
I recently had my local shop build a 700 for me and it feels fine under normal driving but when i get on the throttle it seems to shift too soon and will not downshift when getting hard on the throttle also. The transmission will not allow the engine to reach high rpms and make any power. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Yes. My trans is like this as well. I bought my truck with all the drivetrain installed and running. I changed out the TV cable and adapter on the carb to a BTO unit. There was a crappy $20 unit on there before that had a lot of flex. However, that did not solve the issue.

I put it in drive and step on it. It's a short shift for 1-2 and then again from 2-3. If I put it in OD right away, from a stop, it does the same thing, but it will hold 3rd gear until it's up higher in the RPM range. I don't know when it exactly shifts, I haven't paid attention to that.
Rickysnickers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 11:13 AM   #185
HO455
Registered User
 
HO455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 4,213
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Thank you for taking the time to share all of this with us and to answer our questions. Which I have two. You have called out the torque limitations of many of these parts and my question is that measurement referenced from at the flywheel or the rear wheels? And I am assuming that those torque limitations are calculated with an average 2 wheel drive installation and useage. If that is so I would expect to derate the torque limits by some percentage when installed in a vehicle with the ability to load the transmission more ie. four wheel drives used offroad or a vehicle set up for a drag racing application. Any input you have on this would be appreciated. Your knowledge of these transmissions is amazing, and I wish I lived closer so I could have you rebuild one for me thus giving me piece of mind that I had the job done right. Back in the day my GTO would destroy a T400 every 18 to 24 months. Up side was I never had to service a tranny.
__________________
Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help.
1967 Burban the WMB,1991 S(stink)-10 Blazer,1969 GTO, 1970 Javelin, 1952 F3 Ford 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird. 85 Alfa Romeo
If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place
The WMB http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377
HO455 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2016, 11:26 AM   #186
schpeen
Senior Member
 
schpeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: fort lauderdale, florida
Posts: 493
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickysnickers View Post
Yes. My trans is like this as well. I bought my truck with all the drivetrain installed and running. I changed out the TV cable and adapter on the carb to a BTO unit. There was a crappy $20 unit on there before that had a lot of flex. However, that did not solve the issue.

I put it in drive and step on it. It's a short shift for 1-2 and then again from 2-3. If I put it in OD right away, from a stop, it does the same thing, but it will hold 3rd gear until it's up higher in the RPM range. I don't know when it exactly shifts, I haven't paid attention to that.
simple adjustment of the downshift cable on the carb and she shifts perfectly
i added the FiTech EFI and the cables needed to be readjusted again so i took the truck by a transmission shop and talked the old timer/owner into adjusting it for me himself which he did, now the truck drives absolutely like it's a new truck. I am so happy to have finally reached the point where i can just drive the truck and not have to be planning out the next thing that needs done!
__________________
1965 C-10 Stepside "8 ball"
1991 K5 Blazer 4x4 "9 ball"
2018 Chevy Colorado ZR2 4x4 "Baja"
2017 Corvette Stingray
2006 Mazda Miata
1988 23' Mako Marine
schpeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 12:20 AM   #187
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HO455 View Post
Thank you for taking the time to share all of this with us and to answer our questions. Which I have two. You have called out the torque limitations of many of these parts and my question is that measurement referenced from at the flywheel or the rear wheels? And I am assuming that those torque limitations are calculated with an average 2 wheel drive installation and useage. If that is so I would expect to derate the torque limits by some percentage when installed in a vehicle with the ability to load the transmission more ie. four wheel drives used offroad or a vehicle set up for a drag racing application. Any input you have on this would be appreciated. Your knowledge of these transmissions is amazing, and I wish I lived closer so I could have you rebuild one for me thus giving me piece of mind that I had the job done right. Back in the day my GTO would destroy a T400 every 18 to 24 months. Up side was I never had to service a tranny.
I stated a torque limit on a stock Delco SunShell at 350 ft.lbs., That's at the wheels.

In a serious wheeler or drag racer.....Run a Sonnax Smart Shell & Sleeve the Input Drum. I didn't cover many performance modifications in this thread.
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 05:08 PM   #188
HO455
Registered User
 
HO455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 4,213
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Great. Thanks for the speedy reply.
__________________
Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help.
1967 Burban the WMB,1991 S(stink)-10 Blazer,1969 GTO, 1970 Javelin, 1952 F3 Ford 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird. 85 Alfa Romeo
If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place
The WMB http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377
HO455 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2016, 05:25 PM   #189
Rickysnickers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Poway, CA
Posts: 618
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schpeen View Post
simple adjustment of the downshift cable on the carb and she shifts perfectly
i added the FiTech EFI and the cables needed to be readjusted again so i took the truck by a transmission shop and talked the old timer/owner into adjusting it for me himself which he did, now the truck drives absolutely like it's a new truck. I am so happy to have finally reached the point where i can just drive the truck and not have to be planning out the next thing that needs done!
I can't do that with the set up I have. It uses a stock style TV cable and automatically adjusts itself.
Rickysnickers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2016, 12:33 AM   #190
joeyv69ragtop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 7
Re: 700R4 build thread.

My annulus gear is worn quite a bit on the outside. There are several pronounced ridges on each of the raised areas. Should it be replaced? Thanks!
joeyv69ragtop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2016, 09:06 PM   #191
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyv69ragtop View Post
My annulus gear is worn quite a bit on the outside. There are several pronounced ridges on each of the raised areas. Should it be replaced? Thanks!
Take a new 3-4 friction and slide it up & down the Annulus/3-4 Clutch Hub, If it hangs up on any of the grooves....Replace it. The last thing you want is the 3-4 clutch not releasing!
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 10:16 PM   #192
fisherman420
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 88
Re: 700R4 build thread.

First off I must say thank you for all of the very informative information within this thread for a DIY rebuild of the 700R/4L60/E transmission! I am about to rebuild my 1990 core to go behind a mild 383 with ~425hp (sorry I don't want a 4l80E....the truck will see very few WOT runs and only a few burnouts initially just to get it out of my system .....

....I will be replacing/upgrading all of the key components along with high quality Torrington bearings, moulded pistons from with corresponding return spring, sonnax shell, sonnax supported input drum, reverse drum, pump rebuild with hardened rings, vette servo, pinless accumulators, appropriate valve body modifications with new separator plate and there's probably a couple things I missed but got the main list of things....anyways....I am having a hard time deciding what 3-4 clutch pack to get. I am a bit leery of the 9 pack systems with the thin steels even though they are kolene treated. Would a high quality 6 pack alto red pack with kolene steels be sufficient or perhaps an 8 friction setup would be best. Thoughts and recommendations please
fisherman420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 10:47 PM   #193
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherman420 View Post
First off I must say thank you for all of the very informative information within this thread for a DIY rebuild of the 700R/4L60/E transmission! I am about to rebuild my 1990 core to go behind a mild 383 with ~425hp (sorry I don't want a 4l80E....the truck will see very few WOT runs and only a few burnouts initially just to get it out of my system .....

....I will be replacing/upgrading all of the key components along with high quality Torrington bearings, moulded pistons from with corresponding return spring, sonnax shell, sonnax supported input drum, reverse drum, pump rebuild with hardened rings, vette servo, pinless accumulators, appropriate valve body modifications with new separator plate and there's probably a couple things I missed but got the main list of things....anyways....I am having a hard time deciding what 3-4 clutch pack to get. I am a bit leery of the 9 pack systems with the thin steels even though they are kolene treated. Would a high quality 6 pack alto red pack with kolene steels be sufficient or perhaps an 8 friction setup would be best. Thoughts and recommendations please
DO NOT USE Alto Red Eagles in the 3-4 Clutch!!!

Using High Energy Frictions & the Latest OEM Hardened 4L60E Apply & Backing Plates are most important parts to this equation, Besides good Pressure Rise.

6-Friction Set-up...
6 Borg Warner .080" High Energy Frictions.
5 GM .106" Treated Steels.
3-4 Apply Plate GM# 8685044.
3-4 Backing Plate GM# 24212460.

7 Friction Set-up...
7 Borg Warner .080" High Energy Frictions.
6 .077" Kolene Threated Steels.
3-4 Apply Plate GM# 8685044
3-4 Backing Plate GM# 24212460.
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2016, 11:21 PM   #194
jamyers
Active Member
 
jamyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Buffalo Gap, TX
Posts: 144
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Clinebarger, what's your advice on TV cable setup at the carb end, especially regarding the TV position in the valve body?

I've got a good OEM TV cable, but nothing yet for the carb.

I've looked at the BowTie Overdrives site and info, looks like good stuff, but their kit is for the Edelbrock Q-jets, which have different throttle arms than my '67 Rochester Q-jet shown below.

__________________
My Chevy Truck Project Build Thread
'62 Ranchero - 200 I6, 3-on-the-tree, power nothing.
'71 LeSabre - 455 Stage 1, power everything.

Last edited by jamyers; 03-25-2016 at 04:45 PM.
jamyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2016, 10:43 PM   #195
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamyers View Post
Clinebarger, what's your advice on TV cable setup at the carb end, especially regarding the TV position in the valve body?

I've got a good OEM TV cable, but nothing yet for the carb.

I've looked at the BowTie Overdrives site and info, looks like good stuff, but their kit is for the Edelbrock Q-jets, which have different throttle arms than my '67 Rochester Q-jet shown below.

I wonder if a late Q-jet throttle shaft will fit your early Carb?? You will have to correct that geometry for sure.
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2016, 10:37 PM   #196
jamyers
Active Member
 
jamyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Buffalo Gap, TX
Posts: 144
Re: 700R4 build thread.

I don't know for sure, but I think so - have to see.

I'll hit a wrecking yard looking for a vehicle with 700R4 and Qjet, and get the throttle shaft and cable bracket.

I'm assuming the correct geometry is shown in the image below? (Purplesage website)

The Bowtie Overdives site talks about the position of the TV valve at idle, what is your opinion on that? Does the correct carb geometry pretty much guarantee the proper position of the TV Valve at idle and WOT?

__________________
My Chevy Truck Project Build Thread
'62 Ranchero - 200 I6, 3-on-the-tree, power nothing.
'71 LeSabre - 455 Stage 1, power everything.

Last edited by jamyers; 03-27-2016 at 10:49 PM.
jamyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2016, 11:24 PM   #197
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Those images are from a GM service manual & are correct.

Blueprinting the TV system is highly recommended. But that starts with the TV Plunger having zero slack between it & the TV Spring. Which requires a spring loaded return for the TV Valve to check with the Valve Body installed (Trans Go TV Valve).

You want very little preload at Idle then Instant Pressure Rise with throttle movement, Verify this with a gauge!
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2016, 06:35 PM   #198
psychodiagnostik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Lexington NC
Posts: 8
Re: 700R4 build thread.

AWESOME thread, I found this thread doing google searches about the 700r4 I'm re building for my '93 Corvette.

I've followed along but now I'm stumped, could anybody provide any insight? So I'm second owner of the car, car worked fine a few years until I lost reverse, & the teardown shows lo-reverse clutches disentegrating (fluid was trashy too). The trans looks like a GM rebuild, V /MD8 case, with the code ground off and a sticker on the bellhousing.

Valve body is a 4442, aluminum slugs in the hydraulic TCC channel. The thing that has me stumped is that instead of a one piece 1-2 throttle valve sleeve and valves I have the two piece, 1-2 sleeve and "lo range control sleeve" like an older valve body. Also the really weird part is the little 1-2 "lo range control" valve is missing. I've searched all over, thinking maybe it fell out when I dissasembled the valves but this seems unlikely & I didn't find it under or around my workbench.

Is this a normal configuration? Should I just get a new later series re-man valve body?
thanks!
psychodiagnostik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2016, 08:55 PM   #199
clinebarger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: No longer here
Posts: 6,255
Re: 700R4 build thread.

If it has a separate "Low Range" Bushing, It needs separate "Low Range" Valves.

Being a "GM" rebuild, Lord knows what happened, Show me a pic of the line-up.

I have a early VB at work, I will snap some pics for you.

In the mean time, Here is what I have on my computer....
clinebarger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2016, 09:45 PM   #200
psychodiagnostik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Lexington NC
Posts: 8
Re: 700R4 build thread.

Thanks! It looks like I have something similiar to the arrangement in the bottom of your scan. This is what I've been running last two two years before I lost reverse & found the lo reverse clutches smoked. A couple of years ago I installed a B&M kit, hence the blocker rod for the line bias valve, & no TV modulator upshift spring. I used this for two years & liked it on the Corvette. It has 2.59 gears in the rear so maybe that softened the hard 1-2 shift. But anyway I'm going to get rid of the B&M mods, except maybe leave the tv modulator upshift spring out because you seemed to speak positviely of this, earlier. But I know you said blocker rod in line bias = bad, so I'm getting rid of that, & who knows maybe the B&M stuff contributed to the early demise of the clutches.


psychodiagnostik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com