Sway Bar, Panhard Bar or Steering Stabilizers??

[6600DURAMAX]

Truck has been done for a couple years and has always had this same issue. When driving down the road the front end always seems loose wants to jump lanes with small bumps or uneven lane grooves. Now, I understand that 35'' bias ply Pit Bull Mud Tires are not going to ride down the road like silk, I am just wondering if any of the above changes will improve the drive qaulity. We have built similar trucks using a panhard bar but they still seems to have the same problem.

(FYI -Dana 60 has been completely rebuilt, so that shouldn't be the issue)

Was thinking about adding steering stabilizers but really can see a clean way to do it with the high steer kit? Currie Antisway Kits would make an awsome ugrade just dont know if it would help this situation? Panhard bar I have mixed reviews with even though this is probably the best option?

Opinions?

[67_SS396]

Hydro assist might help some. What about fabbing a rock jock type setup similar to a jeep?
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[71blazerdetroit]

I think this is a involved diagnosis with these trucks and axle combos.

It can be a single thing or multitude. 1st is wheel alighnment and balancing

Still running the rag joint at the gear box?
Your running Bias, might want to try a set of radials if you have one or friends.

When you did your crossover, did you switch to the wide ratio/variable year gear box? I dont remember the year, seemed to "tighten" up the steering sensitivity alot on mine and lessen the lane walking.

Your Kingpins, springless high steer or springed? I can't express enough how many problems are caused from not enough tension/ compression on the spring before I went springless. I would hit a pot hole and feel like the truck was drifting right, then hit one on the left and the truck would drift left. (I was running 38.5 SS tsl bias)

I think the panhard bar is a cover up fix to other problems.
Steering stabilizers are for bump steer and cross over lessens bump steer anyway.

Hydro assist will cover up or even eliminate bump steer but not lane walking.

[6600DURAMAX]

Thanks BlazerDetroit - I will try to help with some answers

Balance and Alignment - The tires have been balanced but I did my own alignment using a tape measure seemed smart at the time. Truck does run straight when the road is smooth, it does not drift lanes so I figured alignment was good???

It is a "New" gear box from Autozone but it was for a mid 70's chevy not sure the exact year. Yes on the rag joint but again it is a brand new rag

Kingpins are BlueTorch Fab Work Spring version I THINK, will have to pull some old pictures and see if it rings a bell, but i don think they used springs - Should I put some spacers in to tighten up the springs??

One additional thing - every once in a while when I turn a certain direction and hit a bump at the same time it feels like one of my front tires is going to come off the truck ????? Whats that??? Is that bumpsteer?

Are you saying that steering stabilizers wouldn't really help?

This is something that doesn't have to be fixed but I do not feel good about letting the wife drive..... actually she is to scared anyway

thanks guys

[6600DURAMAX]

Sorry 67SS396 didn't see your first post -I do like the hydro assist option, I might have to look into this a little more - Would probably just need a new steering box from Redneck with the ported fittings already installed then a small cylinder. I am really trying to keep this as clean as possible - really the reason I never installed steering stabilizers because it make it messing under there

[BLAZERMAN]

Originally Posted by 6600DURAMAX

One additional thing - every once in a while when I turn a certain direction and hit a bump at the same time it feels like one of my front tires is going to come off the truck ????? Whats that??? Is that bumpsteer?

Have you checked to see if your tie rod may be making contact with your leaf springs? It may just be the camera angle but they look awful close in your pic.

[Zoomad75]

sounds like "death wobble". Do some digging on www.coloradok5.com on that term and you'll get a mountain of results.

[special-K]

A leaf spring truck should never need a panhard bar. I'm not sure what to tell you,but I thought people went through all the expense and work to install crossover steering to eliminate the problems you're having. Sounds like your bump steer is worse than my truck with stock steering. That high steer tie rod does look awfully close to the springs. How much lift do you have?

[6600DURAMAX]

The tie rod is pretty close to the leaf spring but I think there is an inch or so between them, I will look a little closer tonight and see if I see any rub marks on either.

Special-K - I agree on the expense of the crossover and the elimination of bump steer but it still seems like I have some issues.

Is anyone else out there not running steering stabilizers?? Maybe thats it??

The more I think about it a sway bar really only helps body roll which is not even close to my issue

[special-K]

I'd say dual stabilizers could help or even be the difference. Do I see zero-rates or are those blocks in there? It looks to me like about 2" of something in there,but maybe I'm not seeing it right. I'll wait for your answer to comment further on that. But,I will say that's why the tie rod is closer than normal to the springs.

[6600DURAMAX]

I have 9 degree shims for pinion angle and a 1'' zero rate "block" that is bolted to my leaf pack. I did check at lunch and I have clearance between the tie rod and spring and there is absolutly no sign that it has touched or rubbed. I did come up with a way to mount dual stabilizers - I will have to make a mount and bolt it to the leaf spring pad thru the u-bolts and weld some tabs on the tie rod then have the tie rod powdercoated again. I will need some really short stabilizers because I wont have a lot of room. Would any shock work mounted horizontally or do they have to be designed for a steering stabilizer

[BLAZERMAN]

Steering stabilizers are valved different than a shock..they are 50/50. I have just about the same setup as you..when it was on my 72 I never ran a stabilzer..never needed it, It was about the best handling truck I've ever had.
I think you should lose those 9 degree shims...I bet they are the cause of your ill handling. If you have to have them then you may need to turn your knuckles.

[6600DURAMAX]

Dont think I can get rid of the shims due to the pinion angle. The front driveshaft has 1350's on both ends and I know the CV has very little drop in it.

[Altec]

I agree on the shims. It is throwing your caster off. Which is effecting the way the truck handles at speed.

I would pop the drive shaft, remove the shims and drive it for a bit. See how that effects things. If it helps, you can go about getting your drive shaft straightened out. Either contact some shops about your issue, and some extreme angle joints, or the proper fix is to have the inner-C's turned.

Steering stabilizers can clean up vibrations in the steering, but won't help a improper setup.

A proper panhard bar is good for soft springs, and can be a good way to help with bump steer (Not your problem though).

Sway bar will simply help with body roll.

[duallyjams]

I agree on the shims. It is throwing your caster off. Which is effecting the way the truck handles at speed.

Either the shims have to go or rotate your knuckles or just drive slow radial tires would help bias tires wonder on there own.

[special-K]

How much lift do you have to need shims? I agree they have to go or your "C"s need to be clocked. I think zero-rates combined with degree shims are a bad idea,too. That's too many things stacked IMO. If you really need degree shims I'd look into getting your height without zero-rates. It just looks like a bad combo of bolt-on components. Maybe some zero-rates could be made to degree your axle. But,I like the idea of just springs. That will give more clearance for your tie rod,too.

[71blazerdetroit]

1) I couldn't find where you posted you lift height?

9* shims ?? on a stock axle, I thought they only come with -6 camber from the factory?

If thats true, you might be running positive camber and causing all sorts of issues.

2) an angle finder with pic on the top of the knuckle would help tremendously

3) To clarify you should not have to run a steering stabilizer if your setup is working right.

4) your issue of hitting bumps on the road and the tire "wobbling" is signs that your knuckles are loose (the springs aren't compressed enough, or if you have springless the bolt isn't) You can try the spacer trick, but that didnt work for mine.

[Mr. 250r]

I have the death wobble on mine and it sounds similar and man does it suck almost rolled because of it the dual steering stabilizers fixed mine but its a band aid fix and masks the true problem and mine wobbles again anyways, the death wobble is usually related to kingpins but if its rebuilt with new stuff I dont see that being a problem, I'm running a non rebuilt 86 D60 with 38.5s bias ply tsl's and above 30 if I hit a bump it shakes horribly and by horribly I mean if you do not slam on the brakes immediately the truck will roll over so if yours is that bad then its the infamous death wobble if not might be something else and isn't hydro assist not for street purposes? Also could try different tires I've seen people have the problem with that
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[BLAZERMAN]

I had never experianced the Death Wobble till a couple years ago while driving my neighbors bone stock 86 K-30 with almost 200,000 miles on it. It was so bad after crossing a set of railroad tracks at 30 mph that you had to come to a complete stop just to regain control. The bad thing is it was only 24.00 worth of parts to correct the issue and he had been living with it for who knows how long!
I dont think this is the problem on this truck...I believe he has several issues going on....I would almost guarantee those shims are causing the wandering steering....and I still think there may be contact with the spring and tie rod..you say when your wheels are turned and you hit a bump it feels like your wheel is going to come off. If you look at the clearance with your wheels straight it may look like enough clearance..but crank your wheels all the way to the left and right and watch the tie rod come even closer to the spring...this happens because of the inclanation of the knuckle where the steering arm bolts to it...now combine that with your spring flattening out from hitting a bump...solid contact! It may not be hard enough to chip your powder coating yet but I believe thats whats happening.
If this is whats going on both problems would be solved by removing the degree shim and the zero rate block..they are the reason you dont have sufficient clearance to begin with. If you need the zero rate for the added height then you can use a 1" block and puck between your steering arms and knuckles..that should give you plenty of room. As for your front driveshaft check out High Angle Drivelines...they can put a shaft together with 1350s that is good for up to 42 degrees of angle and works with lifts of 10" and 12"

[6600DURAMAX]

Thanks fo rthe help guys, I will look at getting those shims removed and let you guys know.

[Chevy1TonFun]

I wanted to let you know I am running a D60 with no steering stabilizers, ballistic D60 High Steering arms with a Set-screw design that eliminates the need for the kingpin spring. I had the death wobble until... I tightened the kingpin adjustment bolt. Ever since then it's been great, no wobble. As for crossover steering I use helm joints, not the rag joints. Check to see if your axle C's are level to the ground. Let us know if they are or not. If they are level then you are fine to leave your shims. I'd look at getting rid of your kingpin springs! That should fix your wobble.

[special-K]

What do you mean,"...I use helm joints,not rag joints"? The rag joint (only one) is between the upper and lower steering column shaft,which is not articulated. You must mean instead of tie rod ends you use "Heim" or "Rose" joints.

[Chevy1TonFun]

Originally Posted by special-K

What do you mean,"...I use helm joints,not rag joints"? The rag joint (only one) is between the upper and lower steering column shaft,which is not articulated. You must mean instead of tie rod ends you use "Heim" or "Rose" joints.

Thanks special-K that is what I meant.

[special-K]

I'm not sure what the official "joint type" factory tie rod ends are. They are the same "type" as drag link ends,etc. Technically,your Heim joints are still tie rod ends.

That's good first hand advise you gave,BTW

[6600DURAMAX]

My C's are not level, I will remove my degree shims and that should make the level. I will also look into the springless arm, I might contact BlueTorch Fab and see if they have a kit that can retrofit my arms since these things are not cheap.