24v Questions

[Dieselwrencher]

Ask him if the KDP has ever been fixed. That is a really clean truck so he may be firm. But that is definitely a nice truck by looking at those pics.

[notchbackgta]

OK, I got it for $4,000. He said the PO tabbed the KDP and supposedly changed the timing on the pump.

It wasn't as nice as I 'd hoped, but I am going to drive it for a while since the AC works.

Head bolts are not re-usable, right?

You had said the p-pump stuff is worth 12-1800, what would change the amount so drastically?

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

OK, I got it for $4,000. He said the PO tabbed the KDP and supposedly changed the timing on the pump.

It wasn't as nice as I 'd hoped, but I am going to drive it for a while since the AC works.

Head bolts are not re-usable, right?

You had said the p-pump stuff is worth 12-1800, what would change the amount so drastically?

They are reusable as long as they aren't stretched too far. The Cummins head gasket kits come with a stretch gauge. The price varies on what injection pump you have. You probably have a 160 on that 94 and they aren't as desirable. They are finicky and don't fuel as well as a 180 or 215. Plus they have a different cam in them that makes them move less fuel. Still an ok pump but not a big dollar pump. A 180 will bring the most and 215s are right behind them. Mileage and condition of the pump are a part of the price too.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

They are reusable as long as they aren't stretched too far. The Cummins head gasket kits come with a stretch gauge. The price varies on what injection pump you have. You probably have a 160 on that 94 and they aren't as desirable. They are finicky and don't fuel as well as a 180 or 215. Plus they have a different cam in them that makes them move less fuel. Still an ok pump but not a big dollar pump. A 180 will bring the most and 215s are right behind them. Mileage and condition of the pump are a part of the price too.

The engine has 246k miles on it. How do I check to see what pump it is and what kind of price should I ask, if it is a 160, for it when I go to sell it?

Now that I have put a few hundred miles on it, I think that when I have it in the Suburban I actually may want more power out of it, So far I have only gotten about 15 lbs of boost going up a steep hill full throttle. Is that the maximum boost I should expect, or am I just not going to get more because I am not loaded enough?
It also smokes a little once it is "hot" at idle. What could that mean? it is a white smoke.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

The engine has 246k miles on it. How do I check to see what pump it is and what kind of price should I ask, if it is a 160, for it when I go to sell it?

Now that I have put a few hundred miles on it, I think that when I have it in the Suburban I actually may want more power out of it, So far I have only gotten about 15 lbs of boost going up a steep hill full throttle. Is that the maximum boost I should expect, or am I just not going to get more because I am not loaded enough?
It also smokes a little once it is "hot" at idle. What could that mean? it is a white smoke.

The white smoke could be haze from worn injectors. There is an ID tag on the injection pump, usually on the governor housing or on the side of the pump which could be behind the throttle bracket some times. The numbers on there are where the model numbers can be broken down from.

What turbo does it have on it? Plug the waste gate line and make sure the waste gate isn't stuck open. You can get at least 10lbs more out of that turbo I'll bet with some tweaking.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

What turbo does it have on it? Plug the waste gate line and make sure the waste gate isn't stuck open. You can get at least 10lbs more out of that turbo I'll bet with some tweaking.

Just plug the port on the can for the waste gate and close off the boost(or vacuum) line from the engine?

[Dieselwrencher]

Just remove the line at the air fuel control (AFC) on the injection pump and plug it. You don't have to plug the nipple at the waste gate unless you want to. You'll need a 1/8" pipe plug. Make sure you leave the air line going from the cylinder head to the AFC housing other wise you won't have any boost pressure to operate the AFC.

[notchbackgta]

OK, thanks. I will try that maybe tomorrow. Without taking the down pipe off can I tell whether the wastegate is stuck? Should I just be able to move the arm against an internal spring in the can?

[notchbackgta]

I was also thinking about the fan setup again. I was going to run the stock clutch fan hub, but I saw that later trucks use an electric clutch. I was wondering if that would be worth switching to over the stock viscous style.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

OK, thanks. I will try that maybe tomorrow. Without taking the down pipe off can I tell whether the wastegate is stuck? Should I just be able to move the arm against an internal spring in the can?

You'd have to pull the down pipe to check if you don't have another one to compare to. You can remove the e clip that holds the rod on and see if the arm moves or if it binds. Chances are it is stock and has never been adjusted so it opens where it should netting you the low boost. But trying to adjust them usually ends up with a broken rod so I just plug them and don't mess with them. I really like spring gates on those to be honest. They are easy to adjust and aren't that expensive these days.

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

I was also thinking about the fan setup again. I was going to run the stock clutch fan hub, but I saw that later trucks use an electric clutch. I was wondering if that would be worth switching to over the stock viscous style.

Are you referring to an electric clutch like on the common rails? Because dodge never had them before the common rails. You can get a Horton one and make it work but it's a little more involved than just bolting the electric hub on and going. The common rail ones won't work on the older 5.9s.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

You'd have to pull the down pipe to check if you don't have another one to compare to. You can remove the e clip that holds the rod on and see if the arm moves or if it binds. Chances are it is stock and has never been adjusted so it opens where it should netting you the low boost. But trying to adjust them usually ends up with a broken rod so I just plug them and don't mess with them. I really like spring gates on those to be honest. They are easy to adjust and aren't that expensive these days.

Yeah, I don't want to remove the downpipe until I am ready to pull the engine out. I see the junction where the tube comes out for, what I think, is for the wastegate actuator. I will double check and plug it, I can't figure out what that will actually do though, since I don't know what the actuator is actually doing and how the boost reference changes anything. No boost to the actuator = wastegate staying closed?

What would you recommend for a spring gate? I had been looking at the Banks Big head actuator, seems kind of expensive for what it is though.

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Are you referring to an electric clutch like on the common rails? Because dodge never had them before the common rails. You can get a Horton one and make it work but it's a little more involved than just bolting the electric hub on and going. The common rail ones won't work on the older 5.9s.

I was thinking of one for the CR. I can do the wiring and get a fan controller setup to make it work, but if it isn't going to thread on the 12v hub, I won't bother. I just figured I don't need that fan spinning all the time since the diesel doesn't really get hot at idle like a gas engine.

[Dieselwrencher]

The banks big head is nice but for the money you might as well put it towards a K27 or S300 turbo IMO. When you plug the waste gate actuator line, you are basically not allowing the waste gate to open now allowing the turbo to build more boost.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

The banks big head is nice but for the money you might as well put it towards a K27 or S300 turbo IMO. When you plug the waste gate actuator line, you are basically not allowing the waste gate to open now allowing the turbo to build more boost.

So the boost actually helps open the WG?

I was driving my dodge this weekend and as I was driving home I realized the scale on the temp gauge is like 140, 190, 220 is hot. I never really paid attention except to make sure that it wasn't getting hot before, but I was looking and the needle was about half way between 140 (I think it's 140) and 190. Is that where this engine was designed to run? Or did someone put a lower temp thermostat in it?

[Dieselwrencher]

Yes, the boost pressure opens the waste gate. It should have a 180 or 190* thermostat in it. Someone could have put a 160 in it but that won't be real nice for you in the winter if you want any heat.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Yes, the boost pressure opens the waste gate. It should have a 180 or 190* thermostat in it. Someone could have put a 160 in it but that won't be real nice for you in the winter if you want any heat.

OK, I will definitely try to remember to plug the WG port before I drive it next. EVERY time I jump in it to do something I remember I should have looked at plugging that, lol sometimes I have the memory span of a goldfish

Fortunately for now the temp won't be much of a problem, I don't plan on driving it too much in winter, it will probably start getting torn down before the end of this year. I think I will get my 4wd swap most of the way through before I take the Dodge apart. Going to Idaho in a few weeks to go get a K20 frame from the guy that buys Suburbans to make crew cabs for his business, he posts on here

The reason I was thinking about the temperature, I have been thinking, about how to get the grid heater to work automatically like it would be stock, but without the Dodge (or Cummins?) computer. I was thinking I could use a 6.2/6.5 glow plug heater solenoid, but it looks like the glow plug inhibit switch is not available anymore and is troublesome anyway. Then I was thinking I could just use a thermostatically controlled fan switch to work the 6.2/6.5 solenoid. Then I thought, I am overthinking that. I could just use a fan switch with a relay, but I couldn't find a low enough temp fan switch, so I was thinking an adjustable fan controller would work instead since you can control when the "fan" would come on, but instead of turning on the fan, it could turn the grid heater off. Then I thought, maybe I am overthinking it at all since most people don't find the need to use the grid heater on a Cummins unless it is REALLY cold, like colder than -20 or something. Should I even bother with the fan thing? In the end I was thinking I could just put a timed relay on a switch (I was going to have a switch in addition to the fan controller in case it failed) with a momentary push button switch and just use it as necessary. Set the timer to maybe 20 seconds. I really just want to be able to use and light up the "Wait start" on the Dakota Digital dash

Also, does the VE pump have a high idle, or cold start solenoid on it? There is something on the side of the pump with an electrical tab and I am not sure what it is.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

OK, I will definitely try to remember to plug the WG port before I drive it next. EVERY time I jump in it to do something I remember I should have looked at plugging that, lol sometimes I have the memory span of a goldfish

Fortunately for now the temp won't be much of a problem, I don't plan on driving it too much in winter, it will probably start getting torn down before the end of this year. I think I will get my 4wd swap most of the way through before I take the Dodge apart. Going to Idaho in a few weeks to go get a K20 frame from the guy that buys Suburbans to make crew cabs for his business, he posts on here

The reason I was thinking about the temperature, I have been thinking, about how to get the grid heater to work automatically like it would be stock, but without the Dodge (or Cummins?) computer. I was thinking I could use a 6.2/6.5 glow plug heater solenoid, but it looks like the glow plug inhibit switch is not available anymore and is troublesome anyway. Then I was thinking I could just use a thermostatically controlled fan switch to work the 6.2/6.5 solenoid. Then I thought, I am overthinking that. I could just use a fan switch with a relay, but I couldn't find a low enough temp fan switch, so I was thinking an adjustable fan controller would work instead since you can control when the "fan" would come on, but instead of turning on the fan, it could turn the grid heater off. Then I thought, maybe I am overthinking it at all since most people don't find the need to use the grid heater on a Cummins unless it is REALLY cold, like colder than -20 or something. Should I even bother with the fan thing? In the end I was thinking I could just put a timed relay on a switch (I was going to have a switch in addition to the fan controller in case it failed) with a momentary push button switch and just use it as necessary. Set the timer to maybe 20 seconds. I really just want to be able to use and light up the "Wait start" on the Dakota Digital dash

Also, does the VE pump have a high idle, or cold start solenoid on it? There is something on the side of the pump with an electrical tab and I am not sure what it is.

You're going to see Randall huh? Are you driving out on I-80 by chance?

For the grid heater you can use a timer relay to trigger your solenoids for the grid heaters. I haven't hooked the grid heater up on the 72 yet. I need to. It'll start with some foot pedal manipulation below 15*. At 15* and above it'll start on it's own even with 7x.014s and 25* of timing. It's nuts. But it would be nice to have them on there because they do start a lot nicer with them hooked up. You can hook up the wait to start light like you said. That is the KSB on the injection pump and it advances the timing for cold starts. They don't have a high idle anything on them. Although, I've used a solenoid to bump the throttle on 2 trucks for cold weather high idle. I need to gather the pieces and to the next one. I really need to not drive my 72 in winter anymore if I don't want it garbage by 2019.

[notchbackgta]

Yeah, i am going down 80 for a good part of the trip? Why do you ask?

Is there a benefit of having the grid heater on after the engine has started? I am only going by the glow plug stay on in the 6.2/6.5 for a period until the engine gets some heat into it, so i am thinking it would be beneficial for the Cummins too?
Do I need/will I need to hook up the KSB? Do I just give it 12VDC all the time?

I know all about "the next one" I am already planning on two more projects, lol. After I read through your Longhorn thread it made me want to buy one and make it 4x4 with a diesel. I would probably go "electronic" though. I would need it to tow a gooseneck 30-40 trailer for the backhoe my grandfather is giving me, I want to move out west in the mountains and start my own homestead, so I am going to need pretty long trailer to move all my crap with me, lol. I have to get rid of my 69 C10 now so I can buy a Longhorn, I have a line on a decent one in California, but I can't get the guy that said he wanted my truck, to get back to me! So I think I am going to have to put it all together and advertise it to sell it.
After the Longhorn I want a 37-? Dodge civilian Power Wagon, but I am not sure I can afford that one

I actually plan on living in the Suburban if I move out west, until I can get a shelter built for myself.

[notchbackgta]

Sorry, another question. What size fuel line do I need for a mildly turned up VE pump? I was hoping I could get away with a 3/8", but it looks like I should go to a 1/2"? I have an 88 Suburban tank in the burb and I was going to get a diesel sending unit for the tank rather than put a hole in mine. I would like to NOT put other holes in it, but I guess I could and then solder the edges of the hole to seal them against corrosion

[Dieselwrencher]

I figured if you were in the area and needed a place to crash you could come over and I'd buy ya dinner and offer you a place to stay on your way through. You can get by with 3/8" on a VE for sure. My old 95 Ford is still running fine with the 3/8" on it and it had to be 300hp to the rear tires. Having the grid heaters cycle until the air intake temp helps bring the engine up to temp faster in cold weather and is nice. It isn't really noticeable if you let your stuff warm up though other than you can watch the volt gauge drop when it kicks in. I hear you on the electronic. If I could find a reasonably priced donor I'd put the wife's Excursion back to a VP. But it's too pricey to make it worth while. I'd like to put a CR in my next build. I have 80% of one so we'll see.

[notchbackgta]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

I figured if you were in the area and needed a place to crash you could come over and I'd buy ya dinner and offer you a place to stay on your way through.

That's very generous of you. I will keep it in mind, my grandfather is coming on the trip with me though, along with the dog, so I am not sure if you're still willing

[notchbackgta]

Had a few extra minutes at lunch, so I finally plugged the WG port over by the AFC. I wasn't really able to test whether I was getting more boost because people are SO F'ing ANNOYING. I was able to get it to about 16 lbs, but it seems a lot more responsive down low. Not sure if it is placebo effect or not.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by notchbackgta

That's very generous of you. I will keep it in mind, my grandfather is coming on the trip with me though, along with the dog, so I am not sure if you're still willing

We have 3 dogs but I don't mind. We have a fenced in yard. I also have a camper I could put you and your Grandfather in too if I don't have my spare room completed by then.

[notchbackgta]

I will definitely keep it in mind, unfortunately the dog doesn't get along with other dogs too well though. She is old now and I never socialized her with other dogs much when she was younger, so I think she is used to being the "alpha" all the time.
I think Randall is going to put me up at his house, I asked about places to sleep in the Suburban and he said you will stay here, so I am not sure if he meant his house or the shop, lol.

[Dieselwrencher]

His shop looks nice enough I'd stay there but I'd not get any sleep. I'd be figuring out how to get a cab. LMAO!