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Old 11-10-2008, 04:59 AM   #1
Brad
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Arrow How to install a Camaro T-5

For years I put off installing the T-5 transmission into my truck because there just didn’t seem to be enough information about them and the information that was out there often times seemed contradictory. I finally decided to take the plunge when I accidently took apart my 3 speed Saginaw while it was still in the truck. (Don’t ask!)

Anyway, that weekend I went through Craigslist and found a T-5 out of an S-10. I went out to take a look at it and the guy was willing to take $150 for it so I brought it home. Using the printed tag on it I determined it came out of a 1989 S-10. According to the rotations, it had a tall 1st gear in the neighborhood of 3.76:1 if my memory is correct. Based on my experience with the 3 speed Muncie and 3 speed Saginaw (2.95:1 or 2.85:1 depending on the engine configuration), along with other research I knew that would give me a quick, off-the-line 1st gear but would limit my overall effective use of the 1st gear and I’d need 2nd gear well before I’d be through an intersection. Initially I was willing to work with it but after looking at it closer and being confused by conflicting information about the T-5’s and my lack of experience, I decided to spend the extra money and get the Camaro version. Unfortunately, in my area the Camaro T-5’s are going for a minimum of $300 bones on up and at a junkyard you’re taking a gamble and hoping the prior owner did the proper maintenance. Yet I found a Non-World Class transmission at a local yard and bit the bullet.

(The pic below shows the Saginaw up top, the Camaro T-5 in the center and the S-10 T-5 on the bottom. Notice the difference of length in the input shafts. This can be a problem with the S-10 input shaft. With the exception of the spline count, the input shaft lengths on the Camaro T-5 and Saginaw or Muncie are almost identical.)




So there are 2 basic models of GM T-5’s out there- the World Class (WC) and the Non-World Class (NWC). The Non-World Class is the original model with the normal analog speedo output and the World Class which is a bit stronger, having ‘heavier duty’ internals and an electronic speedo output.



Both will work very well. Generally speaking, the Camaro’s had the analog speedo ouput up until 1988 which is also when they went to the WC series. These 2 transmissions can be further broken down into various gearing ratio’s with the S-10 version having tall 1st gears and sometimes not very good overdrive gears, (ie. .85 overdrive which hardly seems worth it unless you have small rearend gears), and the Camaro version which typically had a gear ratio as follows:
1st gear 2.95:1
2nd gear 1.94:1
3rd gear 1.34:1
4th gear 1.00:1
5th gear .73:1 or lower
There are 2 ways to verify exactly which transmission you have if you’re unsure of what it came out of. On the driver side of the transmission should be a brass tag with lots of numbers and codes. The codes you’ll want to look for begin with 1352-___ and will end with 3 digits. It appears to me that the WC transmissions also had a vinyl bar code sticker affixed to the top of the transmission with the same 1352-___ code on it, in case the brass tag is missing. There will also be a 1352 code on the case, but do not use this as it will be an invalid number. You can then go to http://www.5speeds.com/t5 and look up the tag number to find out what it came out of.


Once you’ve acquired the T-5, you’ll want to make sure it will fit snugly in your bellhousing. This brings up a side issue- it appears to me that in 1968 GM changed the hole in the truck bell housing from 4-11/16” to 5-1/8”. The T-5 requires the smaller 4-11/16” dia. hole to mount properly. If you have the larger hole, no worries as you can have a machine shop in your area make a press fit ring to fill the gap.
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1968 C-10 SWB, 5.7 Vortec/700R4/3.73 posi, Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250/Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!...Jeez!)
2000 Honda VFR in the faster yellow!
2008 Husqvarna TE-610

1967 C-10 SWB 'Six Appeal'-Gone but not forgotten...

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Old 11-10-2008, 05:03 AM   #2
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Re: How to install a Camaro T-5

Now we can begin the installation. One of the first things that must be done to the transmission is to remove the shifter held on by four 13mm bolts and set it aside. We’ll come back to it later.

Next, enlarge the four mounting holes to ”. This is simple to do especially since the case is made of aluminum. Just take a ” drill bit and drill out the 4 holes.


Next, bolt on the clutch kit to the flywheel and install the throwout bearing onto the transmission. The clutch kit to use will be dependent upon what style input shaft you have and how long it is. Basically, just get a kit that coincides with whatever vehicle the transmission came out of and you’ll be good to go. My 1989 Camaro T-5 uses the clutch kit for a 1989 Camaro. It’s Borg Warner part #90160. There’s no need to make things more complicated by searching for some exotic clutch kit for a 1987 DeLorean DMC-12 with the optional flux capacitor. Seriously, just get the kit for the vehicle the transmission came out of- it’s that simple.


The throwout bearing that comes with the kit will work just fine for the Camaro T-5. In my case the clutch fork needed a slight bit of grinding to slide over the bearing smoothly.

Here are the different sizes of throwout bearings. The steel one in the middle came from the Saginaw transmission. The larger one is for an NP435.


Next, attach the transmission to the bell housing using two ”x__ Allen head screws and two ”x__ grade 8 bolts with lock nuts. (I forgot how long they actually are, but somewhere around 1-1/4" and 1-1/2". The actual bolts used are shown below.) The Allen head screws are used due to the case not having enough room for a standard wrench to fit in the area. (The original bolts were metric Allen head bolts as well.) I had a 3/8” Allen head socket from my days as a machinist but a simple Allen wrench should work too.







Next, you’ll need to shorten your driveshaft to the required length and your local driveline shop can assist you in measuring the proper length.
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1968 C-10 SWB, 5.7 Vortec/700R4/3.73 posi, Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250/Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!...Jeez!)
2000 Honda VFR in the faster yellow!
2008 Husqvarna TE-610

1967 C-10 SWB 'Six Appeal'-Gone but not forgotten...

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Old 11-10-2008, 05:03 AM   #3
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Re: How to install a Camaro T-5

Next, you’ll need to cut out a hole for the shifter to come through the floor board. Measure twice, cut once. (A long story short- my low hump was butchered from a 3 speed floor shifter and knowing I was going to put in a high-hump, I went ahead and cut everything out in the middle.) A neat trick if you’re unsure of exactly where to cut even after measuring is to drill a small hole or two to make sure you’re in the right location, then cut a hole or use a hole saw about 4” in diameter. From the photo below you should have a good idea of where you'll need to start cutting.


Now, go get your shifter that you set aside earlier. Chances are, you'll get the stock shifter which is shown on the left. I got lucky with my transmission as it had an aftermarket short-throw shifter attached which is the one shown on the right. If you’ve got the Camaro transmission and you attach the shifter back on the transmission just as it came, then 1st gear will be straight up and the shift over to 5th gear will be quite a reach due to how it compensates for the 18* angle that the transmission was at previously on the car. You can change that so that the shifter lever sits closer to you and is more comfortable to drive with, just by turning it on it’s base 180*. Simply take the spring clip off the rubber boot and you’ll see that you can swap the handle 180* and slip it back in, reattaching the clip and you’re done. Now bolt the shifter onto the transmission.



Here's how it should look thus far- you're on the homeward stretch!!


Adjust your clutch linkage properly.
Hook up your speedo cable- you'll now need a longer speedo cable since the output is farther back. An 80" GM cable is perfect and should be available from your LAPS.
Hook up the reverse lights- there are 2 wires coming from the column and they just connect to the connector on the transmission. Hopefully you saved the weatherpack connector!
Now drive like you stole it!


Now, regarding a crossmember. Initially I just wanted to get this back on the road and drove around without one. But I knew that I needed something to support the rear end of this since it's such a long transmission. I was originally going to fab up something using an auto crossmember, but after taking it to my exhaust guy, he recommended just fabbing one up out of a lower grade of roll bar tubing. He did it in about an hour using the stock mount and it came out fantastic. (Notice how it's fit to the original 18* angle that's no longer needed?) He even created it so that it's removable when I need to take out the transmission.

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1968 C-10 SWB, 5.7 Vortec/700R4/3.73 posi, Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250/Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!...Jeez!)
2000 Honda VFR in the faster yellow!
2008 Husqvarna TE-610

1967 C-10 SWB 'Six Appeal'-Gone but not forgotten...

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Old 11-10-2008, 05:03 AM   #4
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Re: How to install a Camaro T-5

This space for S-10 information.
Speedo gear, and cable info coming soon.
A great article about T-5's in general
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=171291
An outstanding article on replacing the tailshafts between the Camaro and S-10 T-5's:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=280529

Also, here's another article on doing this at the www.inliners.org website under Tech Tips and as soon as I can figure out how to link it here I'll do that. The following is written by Jack Halton:
The T-5 Tranny - The easy way
Here's how I put together a T5 transmission for my '51 GMC with no machine work and no worries about clutch disc / spline matching. I started with a '84 F-body (Camaro / Firebird) 5-speed. Later versions had electronic speedometer drive, which can be used but require a $300 adapter to work with a mechanical speedometer. The tranny I used was probably for a car equipped with a V6. It has the following ratios:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
2.95 1.94 1.34 1.00 .73

These ratios are very nice for street use with a rear axle ratio of 3.90 or 4.11. They are an improvement on the S10 version of the T5, some of which had a 4.03 first gear and .85 overdrive in fifth gear. F-body cars with the above ratios came with a 3.45 rear axle. There is another version for 305 V8 engine cars which has the same ratios except for a .63 5th gear. The V8's used a 3.08 rear.

This T5 has an input shaft and bellhousing bolt pattern which are correct for any early truck (mine is a '51 GMC). The only difference is that the holes to mount the trans to the bellhousing need to be enlaged to 1/2" . The input shaft has 26 splines which is a common count for most any late GM clutch disc. So far so good. The major problem is location of the shifter. F-body cars all have bucket seats and the shifter is located at the rear of the tailshaft housing. If your old truck has bucket seats, it will probably work as is, but I like to use that space for miscellaneous junk in a little console with a cupholder. Sooo...

I was fortunate to find an S10 T5 that was sold as "parts only". On teardown, it had bad synchros and pieces of metal throughout, so it was truly good for parts only. The part I was after was the tailshaft housing. The S10 has a shifter location suited for a truck - about in the center of the floor. And T5's being designed for maximum parts interchange, the tailshaft housings are interchangeable. This can be done with NO disassembly other than removing the tailshafts and side cover/shift fork/rail assemblies - you don't have to get into the transmission itself. So - voila! Swap the tailshaft housings and other parts mentioned and we're good to go!

Photo 1

Pictured above are the side covers, shift forks, and shifter rail from the Camaro (L) and S10 transmissions. These have to be swapped along with the tailshaft housings. Use the shift forks that show the least wear.

photo 2

Whoops....major problem here. The speedometer drive gear is in a different location. On the S10 trans, it's a bit forward of the shifter housing. On the Camaro trans it's well forward. I've heard that some mainshafts had both locations machined, but on mine, no such luck. So, it's gotta move if I want to use the speedometer. "Gee officer, I really don't know how fast I was going - you see, I just put two transmissions together and now my speedometer don't work"....Yeah, right!

photo 3

So here's what I did. Notice the shiny spot in the picture above? that's where the speedo gear was in the Camaro tranny. There is a little hole drilled in that area, for the retaining clip that holds the gear in place. I carefully measured the S10 shaft for the location of that hole and drilled one the same size, in the Camaro shaft. What's not apparent in the picture is that the shiny area is actually a slightly larger diameter than the rest of the shaft. When you slide the gear over this area, its a fairly tight fit and the little retaining clip is held tightly in place. I my case the difference in diameter was .055". So I made a shim out of .026" stock (remember you have to split the difference) which wraps around the shaft to make it the proper diameter. It doesn't go all the way around, just enough to make the gear a tight fit. I epoxied this shim onto the shaft (using a couple of hose clamps to hold it in place overnight) and tapped the gear and clip into place.

Some background on the T5...originally produced by Borg Warner Gear Division, all T5's are now known as "Tremec" and are manufactured by Transmission Technologies Corp. An excellent repair / disassembly manual is available for the T5 at minimal cost by calling (800) 401-9866. Here is a page from that manual:

Not shown in the above diagram is the side cover and shift fork assembly (photo 1). You will have to use the entire thing from the S10 box, because the shifter shaft (23) must be the correct length for the S10 tailhousing.

Here's an "Aw, S**t !" to avoid. Removal of the tailshaft extension requires driving a roll pin out of the shifter shaft, into the offset lever (14 on diagram). There is a drilled passageway there to hold it. As soon as you get the tailshaft off, drive this pin all the way out and put it aside where it won't get lost. It's all to easy to re-install the offset lever with the pin still in there...and you won't realize it's there until you try to drive in a new one. Of course, this will be AFTER you have re-installed the tail housing with gasket cement, torqued the bolts, etc, at which point you must remove everything and do it all over again.
Jack Halton / Inliners International May 2001



Another good T-5 article:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=232700



Here are some common misperceptions:
Doesn’t the Camaro transmission sit at an 18* angle and you have to get the Camaro bell housing with the transmission?
No, you absolutely won’t need the Camaro bellhousing on the truck application. It has the 18* angle built in to it and once you separate the transmission from the bell housing, you’ll see that the transmission sits straight up just like any other old Borg Warner, Saginaw, or Muncie transmission.

Will I need to use a hydraulic clutch?
No, you absolutely won't need to use a hydraulic clutch. That's one of the things that makes this swap so easy and user friendly. You'll just use your original clutch fork and linkage. (I had to grind a minuscule portion of the fork tang in order for it to slide freely on the new throwout bearing which came with the kit.)

Will I need some sort of expensive speedo adaptor?
The Camaro transmission had an analog speedometer output up until 1988 when they went to the electronic output. I’ve taken that out on my 1989 T-5 and simply inserted an old analog ouput back in with no problems. I assume that all the speedo holes in these were the same, and you shouldn’t have any difficulties doing the same thing.
__________________

1968 C-10 SWB, 5.7 Vortec/700R4/3.73 posi, Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250/Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!...Jeez!)
2000 Honda VFR in the faster yellow!
2008 Husqvarna TE-610

1967 C-10 SWB 'Six Appeal'-Gone but not forgotten...

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Old 11-10-2008, 05:22 AM   #5
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Re: How to install a Camaro T-5

Here are some pics of how a bench seat fits in relation to a Camaro T-5. I just happen to be rebuilding my bench seat from my other truck so you can see how things fit. Obviously the seat won't normally fit with the Camaro shifter, however I've always suspected it would be possible with a shifter like Hurst has for the Tri-5's or some sort of home-built shifter like that.



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1968 C-10 SWB, 5.7 Vortec/700R4/3.73 posi, Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250/Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!...Jeez!)
2000 Honda VFR in the faster yellow!
2008 Husqvarna TE-610

1967 C-10 SWB 'Six Appeal'-Gone but not forgotten...

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Old 11-21-2008, 02:47 PM   #6
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Re: How to install a Camaro T-5

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvfd70 View Post
You said you are switching to a high hump cover. Do you have to do that to get it to fit or will it fit in a low hump cab?
Great question!
It'll fit perfectly fine with plenty of room under a low hump cab. I had butchered my cab when I had a 3 speed and when I discovered that it could be moved back on the rails instead of having to reach so far and hit my knuckles on the dashboard when shifting, I did so and it left a big gaping hole (see pic below). I also just like having a little 'shelf' or 'mini-console' that the high hump provides.

To discuss this FAQ topic go here- LINK
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1968 C-10 SWB, 5.7 Vortec/700R4/3.73 posi, Torch Red
1968 Camaro, 250/Powerglide, all original (No, I'm not gonna drop a 350 in it!...Jeez!)
2000 Honda VFR in the faster yellow!
2008 Husqvarna TE-610

1967 C-10 SWB 'Six Appeal'-Gone but not forgotten...


Last edited by N2TRUX; 01-01-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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