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Old 03-06-2016, 10:21 AM   #51
Marv D
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Re: If you like destruction -

The short answer.. ABSOLUTELY repairable.
The aluminum head repair is a pretty common thing to upper end machine shops that build drag motors. (we're always bringing in carnage for them to fix) I've had a number of SBC aluminum heads (AFR and Brodix) heads repaired and they come out just fine.

AFR and Edelbock alloy is a tough one to weld from what I hear. If you have issue finding someone more local, PM me and I'll put you in touch with a couple guys who will steer you right. Just make SURE they have experience doing aluminum head repair on aftermarket heads, Just any ol hack with a TIG and a die grinder isn't what your looking for.
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Old 05-15-2016, 09:24 PM   #52
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Re: If you like destruction -

Hey Adam, just checking in to see how the BB build is coming along.
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Old 05-15-2016, 09:53 PM   #53
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Re: If you like destruction -

Heeeeeey!!! I wish I was as far along as your rebuild is (I'm SO glad you stayed with the big block!!!) Not much as of yet, machine work is complete for the shortblock, final assembly should begin soon. Then all the port work on heads & intake will take some time. I'm looking at probably the end of June. Transmission isn't finished yet either - so I've taken the time to redo some wiring, install a new fan controller and a few other things. Got all the Hotchkis stuff installed too.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:56 PM   #54
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by BossHogg69 View Post
Heeeeeey!!! I wish I was as far along as your rebuild is (I'm SO glad you stayed with the big block!!!) Not much as of yet, machine work is complete for the shortblock, final assembly should begin soon. Then all the port work on heads & intake will take some time. I'm looking at probably the end of June. Transmission isn't finished yet either - so I've taken the time to redo some wiring, install a new fan controller and a few other things. Got all the Hotchkis stuff installed too.
The Hotchkis goodies should be awesome!!! As soon as my buddy gets his 460 he built for his mud truck off the engine stand we are going to start reassembly on mine. That motor of yours should make some serious horsepower when your done.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:04 AM   #55
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Re: If you like destruction -

.
.

Any updates on this one?

Bummer to hear about the 'fresh' 454 though.

.
.
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:23 AM   #56
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Re: If you like destruction -

I finally got the transmission a couple of weeks ago, it's a TREMEC TKO-600, but with a full internal upgrade by Liberty Gears - polished & cryo-treated gears, bronze shift pads, carbon fiber synchros, threaded front cluster bearing support and PRO 5.0 shifter. It's going to be backed up by a RAM 10.5" twin disc clutch with an aluminum flywheel. Both will withstand 900hp. The 532" should be right at 800hp, so I have a little 'wiggle' room. I had to stick with TKO transmission due to how I originally built my frame center section and trans crossmember. Frame is all powdercoated and I really didn't want to have to move anything around, so the upgraded/fortified TKO-600 was about the only option for me over the TKO-500 that was previously in the truck.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
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1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #57
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Re: If you like destruction -

800 Hp and a 6 speed, that will be awesome
Any new updates on the motor?
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Old 06-19-2016, 06:20 PM   #58
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Re: If you like destruction -

I hate to disappoint but it's only 5 gears. I don't know about awesome, but I'm sure it will scare the hell out of me the first few times I hammer on it after it's all broken in. I'll be putting in a call tomorrow about the engine. It's supposed to be finished this month, as I had time set aside to go pick it up from their shop in TN.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
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1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:35 PM   #59
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by BossHogg69 View Post
I hate to disappoint but it's only 5 gears. I don't know about awesome, but I'm sure it will scare the hell out of me the first few times I hammer on it after it's all broken in. I'll be putting in a call tomorrow about the engine. It's supposed to be finished this month, as I had time set aside to go pick it up from their shop in TN.
My bad, I misread the post. Anyway, it's still going to be awesome!!!!
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:04 PM   #60
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Re: If you like destruction -

Update from the builder - they're saying 2-4 more weeks, which isn't really what I wanted to hear. I'll keep you guys posted. I'll try and get a video of the dyno session and I'll definitely post up the dyno sheet and pics when I pick up the engine.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
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Old 06-20-2016, 05:37 PM   #61
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Re: If you like destruction -

Nice build choice... sorry for the beginning result! --

Chris and Scott really are the cream of the crop for engine building. Glad to see you are going with them for your new build. They are doing some of my work and it will ALL be right the first time!!!!


Great looking truck too by the way,
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:07 PM   #62
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Re: If you like destruction -

Finally some engine porn. Ended up going conservative on the cam, since driveability is the name of the game and huge cams usually don't get along with manual transmissions w/OD at 'cruise' rpm. Power will be in the mid 700's as a result, but the torque curve should be nice. Hitting the dyno on December 16th. This engine build took WAAAAAY longer than I ever expected, only second to the 18 months of paint prison. But like the guy that painted my truck, I'm 100% confident in the fanatic attention to detail that went into every aspect of this piece. At least I know what I'll be doing this winter...
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
2006 GMC 2500HD, 6.6L/6 spd, 6" lift, 35's
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Old 12-07-2016, 12:37 AM   #63
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Re: If you like destruction -

I need a towel.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:35 AM   #64
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Re: If you like destruction -

Here are some specs:

Dart Big M block, 4" Scat 4340 crank, 6.535" H beam rods with ARP2000 bolts. Mahle 4.60" x 13cc dome pistons and rings, Gen6 Rollmaster timing set (for step nosed cam), Straub custom billet hyd roller, .903 Morel hyd. roller lifters. Heads are ProMaxx 317cc w/2.30 intake, 1.88 ex REV valves, Associated springs, Straub design/Sharp rockers specific for these heads, Smith Brothers 7/16 pushrods in GM guide plates, ARP screw in studs and Jomar stud girdle. Intake is a ported Vic Jr and AED 1000hp 4150 carb on a SuperSucker spacer matched to the enlarged plenum. Balancer is Romac, oil pan is Stefs/B&B, oil pump is Melling M77hv.

Cam is just a little guy. Builder called it a 'baby cam' - 250* @ .050", .650" lift, 107LSA.

Heads flow below:
Right port / left port / exh
.2 167.1 / 161.7 / 134.6
.3 248.3 / 238.6 / 179.1
.4 312.1 / 305.6 / 228.1
.5 359.9 / 348.9 / 267.9
.6 389.0 / 371.8 / 287.1
.7 401.5 / 385.2 / 295.5
.8 401.9 / 387.2 / 300.9
.9 408.1 / 392.3 / 304.3
1.0 411.0 / 394.3 / 305.7
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
2006 GMC 2500HD, 6.6L/6 spd, 6" lift, 35's
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:46 PM   #65
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjzepplin View Post
I need a towel.
Me too!!!!!
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:35 AM   #66
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Re: If you like destruction -

What heads?? and did you use the correct locks and retainers..
I.E. 10 * retainers with 7* locks..
why it drop a valve??
or did it drop it from valve float.. or coil bind..
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:51 AM   #67
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by James the III View Post
What heads?? and did you use the correct locks and retainers..
I.E. 10 * retainers with 7* locks..
why it drop a valve??
or did it drop it from valve float.. or coil bind..
Heads are Edelbrock RPM Marine ovals as described in the previous posts. 10* Crower locks & retainers, #87055. Springs were Crower #68363. If if was the wrong retainers, I would think the whole valve (stem and all) would have been in the chamber, not just the head of the valve. Retainers were still intact as shown in the pics. I ordered everything from Crower after talking to them about what heads & cam I was running. Crower SS Enduro rockers. Pushrod length was measured during assembly and ordered accordingly. I'm very confident it was not coil bind, and unlikely that it was valve float, as I'd spun the motor up higher than the rpm that the valve failed and never gotten any indication of valve float. Not to mention both Crower and the guy that did the cam (Chris Straub @ Straub Technologies) said the springs were right for my the cam and set up accordingly. I think given where the valve broke, it was fatigue or maybe the seat wasn't perfect and caused it to fatigue somehow? I really don't have a 100% sure answer, as I am just a shadetree hack at best - which is why I posted everything up to get some opinions. The head itself and the valves were not new (they came off another engine), but all the other hardware was.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
2006 GMC 2500HD, 6.6L/6 spd, 6" lift, 35's
Use the SEARCH function on this forum - it is your friend!!

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Old 02-18-2017, 09:49 AM   #68
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Re: If you like destruction -

On a lighter note, the 532 is finally finished and hit the dyno 2/10/16 (sheet attached). This is actually the second time it was dyno'd, as the first go around they experienced some issues with some guideplate/pushrod interference and had to pull the intake off the check it all out, as they initially thought it was a lifter issue. I must give credit Straub Tech/Foxwell Motorsports for making it right and getting this thing dialed in. For some reason, the dyno shop only had a 2" primary x 3" collector header available (WAY too small). With the 2" header, the peak numbers came to 785hp @ 6500 and 705#/ft @ 5100. Pull was from 4000-6500rpm, with the avg for both HP & TQ being 675. I am having headers built for the engine, (since I can't find off the shelf 2 1/8" headers for a C10) but the guy doing the headers here in Arkansas obviously needs the engine in the chassis to build the headers. That being said, I was not able to send the proper headers for the dyno test (it was dyno'd in Greenvile, TN). 2 1/8" primary x 3.5" (or even 2 1/4" x 4") would be considered the 'right' size for this engine/power level/rpm, and would almost definitely shown another 20-24 horsepower. Both the builder & dyno shop agreed power would be around 805-809 and about 300 rpm higher with a 2 1/8 or 2 1/4 primary.

There is an engine dyno local to me, and if he has a set of bigger headers there I may strap this thing down again before installing it in the truck. I most definitely will put it down on the chassis dyno to see where I'm at after the install. I'll keep you all posted.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
2006 GMC 2500HD, 6.6L/6 spd, 6" lift, 35's
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Old 02-18-2017, 11:19 AM   #69
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Re: If you like destruction -

Glad to see you have made it to the dyno.

I know you had mentioned earlier about your engine bay being just how you liked it, and I have to say it looks absolutely fantastic, hopefully everything falls back into place without issue.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:22 AM   #70
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Re: If you like destruction -

I read this thread in the past and was pretty sad to see the carnage as I just built a 421 mouse for my longhorn and know the pains of trying to do all the right things and still getting derailed at most turns.

That being said CONGRATS!!!! on the 532. You will be much happier with it.

I am building a 72 swb super. I am going to build a 572 with the new magnum 300 heads. I will have a 4L80E to put in. It needs some work first though. Hoping for 700 WHP

I am interested to hear how the headers go as I will need some too. Also interested in what size exhaust u are running as well as routing

I wish I was closer to take a closer look.

Mine will have the no limit wide ride ifs and the trailing arm kit as well from them with coilivers and 14" wilwoods.

Are you planning on putting some tire under it to try to hook it up?

Good luck and maybe one day I can show you how to put a shift kit in that tko ����
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:17 AM   #71
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Re: If you like destruction -

sub'd
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Old 02-28-2017, 04:20 AM   #72
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Re: If you like destruction -

I am wondering if your failure was from incorrect parts..
Edelbrook "marine" heads would not be set up for high rpm.. and fast rpm changes(shifts) as a marine engine is loaded and no transmission..
not many marine engines humming past 5000rpm.
The valves included would be more for long hour run time under high loads not, high rpm..
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:03 AM   #73
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_nova69 View Post

Are you planning on putting some tire under it to try to hook it up?

Good luck and maybe one day I can show you how to put a shift kit in that tko ����
It already has some tire under it, 345/30/19 on 12" wide wheel. I'm fairly certain that 705#ft will rape any street tire. I have another set of 18x12's that may get a 345 MT drag radial if I ever go to a dragstrip. My 'shift kit' is a full workover by Libery Gears and a RAM 10.5" dual disc clutch I like my hotrods with 3 pedals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James the III View Post
I am wondering if your failure was from incorrect parts..
Edelbrook "marine" heads would not be set up for high rpm.. and fast rpm changes(shifts) as a marine engine is loaded and no transmission..
not many marine engines humming past 5000rpm.
The valves included would be more for long hour run time under high loads not, high rpm..
The Edelbrock Marine heads come with a black anodized coating and the only difference in valves are the addition of Inconel exhaust valves, and no valve springs/retainers come on the heads from edelbrock. Other than that they are exactly the same as the Performer RPM/GM ZZ big block heads as far as I know. Of course I could be wrong. I had already made the decision to get the head fixed for use in another project and I'll be replacing all the valves at that time. I had the heads checked out and put on a flowbench before I ran them on the 454, but obviously that didn't matter.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
2006 GMC 2500HD, 6.6L/6 spd, 6" lift, 35's
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:06 AM   #74
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by BossHogg69 View Post
It already has some tire under it, 345/30/19 on 12" wide wheel. I'm fairly certain that 705#ft will rape any street tire. I have another set of 18x12's that may get a 345 MT drag radial if I ever go to a dragstrip. My 'shift kit' is a full workover by Libery Gears and a RAM 10.5" dual disc clutch I like my hotrods with 3 pedals.



The Edelbrock Marine heads come with a black anodized coating and the only difference in valves are the addition of Inconel exhaust valves, and no valve springs/retainers come on the heads from edelbrock. Other than that they are exactly the same as the Performer RPM/GM ZZ big block heads as far as I know. Of course I could be wrong. I had already made the decision to get the head fixed for use in another project and I'll be replacing all the valves at that time. I had the heads checked out and put on a flowbench before I ran them on the 454, but obviously that didn't matter.
Maybe.. I'd have to call them.
but I'd hope a car set would have 1 piece intake valves.. if not all, the ones for roller cams.
Marine use a 2 piece valve would be no issue.. as it be lumbering along at 3000-4500 rpm.. set rpm.. or less..
Did you check the spring pressure after tear down . seat and open to see if at it's installed height( in head as used)it was within spec for that cam??
I.E. did it float the valve.
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:22 PM   #75
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Re: If you like destruction -

Quote:
Originally Posted by James the III View Post
Maybe.. I'd have to call them.
but I'd hope a car set would have 1 piece intake valves.. if not all, the ones for roller cams.
Marine use a 2 piece valve would be no issue.. as it be lumbering along at 3000-4500 rpm.. set rpm.. or less..
Did you check the spring pressure after tear down . seat and open to see if at it's installed height( in head as used)it was within spec for that cam??
I.E. did it float the valve.
I haven't checked the spring pressure, they're still on the heads. I gave the spec sheet to the shop that set up the heads, and I didn't check them myself after he set them up.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...m-marine.shtml

They recommend use of Performer RPM cam, hyd roller & Performer RPMintake, those are all spec'd for 6500rpm operation, per Edelbrock. Don't know why they would include valves that wouldn't be good for the same RPM.
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1969 Chevy CST/10 stepside, DART Big M/TREMEC Magnum Extreme
1965 Chevy Bel Air Wagon (daily driver), 350/TH350, factory a/c - and it works!
1961 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe, ZZ454/M21/4.10's
2005 GMC 1500 ccsb, 5.3L/3.73 G80, tow pkg
2006 GMC 2500HD, 6.6L/6 spd, 6" lift, 35's
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