1972 K20 4x4 Front Axle Seal ????

[cwilkie]

Good evening guys. I have a bit of a problem. I am replacing the inner and outer wheel bearings, upper and lower ball joints, spindle seal, axle bearing, axle seal, tie rods, and drag links. I started with driver side. Well the wheel bearings are replaced and in the hub, new ball joints on the knuckle and attached to the truck, and now I'm reading to reinstall the driver side front axle.

Problem. I don't know where the axle seal goes. The first two pictures is the new seal behind the yoke. I assumed it goes inside the tube.

The last two pictures is the passenger side that I have not taken apart yet. It appears there is nothing in between the yoke and axle tube.

Any help is appreciated.

[dozerbill72]

Axle seals are at the carrier. To replace them you have to remove the cover and the carrier, once both axles are removed.The book will tell you to use a housing spreader, but a pry bar will roll it out most times. I'm sure if you do a search online you will find pics.

[cwilkie]

So I do not install them at the outer yokes? I actually have to take the cover off and take the differential apart?

[57taskforce]

Yes sir, they can be a royal pita to do. The axle shafts come out and the carrier comes out then you yank the old seals and cuss and scream until the seals are started straight. I'd buy a few extra seals before you try it if you've never done it before. There's different methods for driving the seal in that will come up if you search the inter web.

[cwilkie]

Sounds prettying daunting! This is gonna have to wait until spring after it warms up.

[jerry moss]

be double sure the axle tubes are cleaned out before re-installing the axle shafts otherwise you can/will push debris into the carrier and f^&k up the brand new seals. go ahead and ask me how i know this

[cwilkie]

Thanks for the tip. The axle tubes are full of crap on drivers where it's probably worse on the passenger side. Thanks for the tip! After thinking about it I'm going to have someone with more experience change the axle seals and check out the front differential for me. Thanks all!!!

[Orange Crate]

I have used an old 1" wide tape measure. You cut a small section off your busted tape measure and lay it in the axle tube first, then slide your axle shaft along the tape measure until it passes through the seal. Before you push the axle shaft all the way home, pull the old tape measure out, done! No mess (to mess up your new seals or your clean gears and bearings). Enjoy.

[cwilkie]

I talked to a few people with more wrench time than I have. They said the job is more messy and difficult.

Anyone know the torque setting for the four (4) bolts that hold the differential in the carrier?

I'm going to attempt this tomorrow or sunday. Most likely tomorrow afternoon. There is probably already dirt, water, and other crap in the carrier so I figure if I am gonna have an older vehicle I better learn to work on it better.

Progress so far on driver and passenger side:
new upper and lower ball joints
new spindle bearings and seals
new inner and outer wheel bearings, new races, and outer seal

New tie rods and new drag links.

[Bigdav160]

The torque specs are easy to come by. The Spicer/Dana 44 service manual is online if you search.

Make sure you mark the caps so they go back on in the same position they came off or you'll be replacing the bearings later

all the stuff has to come off the outer part of the axle so the seals are easier to do when you're doing ball joints/ect.

The seals press in from the inside of the carrier; so it's necessary to find a way to press the seals in straight.

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by jerry moss

be double sure the axle tubes are cleaned out before re-installing the axle shafts otherwise you can/will push debris into the carrier and f^&k up the brand new seals. go ahead and ask me how i know this

Answer; How experts are created.

[cwilkie]

I have the driver side apart on the outside. Just need to retake the passenger side apart again which isn't a big deal. Just gives me more practice which is ok. What caps need to be marked?

[Chrome8]

Sounds like you are making good progress, just finished up the front of our 71 K20. I didn't work on it myself but Chad did mention the importance of cleaning everything out of the axle tube. Here is a photo for motivation, wish I could offer more guidance and I wish we had more pics of the assembly for reference.

[cwilkie]

Thanks for all the kind words and advice. I'll give you all an update tomorrow. I'll either be really happy or really frustrated!

[cwilkie]

Installed the new axle seals today. The differential came out of the carrier with no problems. I cleaned it along with the inside of the carrier, installed two new seals, and put the axles back in.

I had to stop there because I'm a wheel bearing seal and spindle seal short. I'll order those Monday along with a new set of brake pads. After that it's just getting an alignment done and then I'm good to go. I'll update you all later this coming week. Thanks for all the help!

[dozerbill72]

It looks like the seal may be in backwards. Is the lip on the inside or the outside? If the seal has a spring in it make sure it is towards the inside.

[kwmech]

The seal should have had a guide tube on it to help the shaft find the center of the seal. It's a 5131 seal

[cwilkie]

There is no spring visible on this one. It was all sealed. Its correct though. I installed it in the correct direction as compared to the other seals I installed earlier.

I learned the hard about the spring being on the inside the hard way. I installed a wheel bearing seal with the spring facing outward earlier. Didn't know about my mistake until today when I had to take the hub off and noticed the hub seal was tore. Then I figured it out. Lesson learned. After that I double checked all the other seals I installed because it was all apart on both sides due to changing these axle seals. Luckily the other wheel bearing seal and spindle seals were installed with the spring facing inward. That's a $5 mistake well worth while.

[cwilkie]

These are the guide tubes that are in the axle that go behind the seals. One was damaged but I was able to fix it.

[swamp rat]

My old seals also had the seperate steel guide, but when i pulled my diff the seals were in so the back of the seal faced the diff and the gear oil, just as how the front crankshaft seal is with the back of the seal on the oil side if that helps. On an oil seal the sealing surface has 2 lips, the inner is built for any pressure and oil retention, usually has a spring around it to add tension, some new seals have omitted the spring in favor of a thicker rubber to add the tension, the outter lip on the face is desigened to only keep dust and debres out. (dual lip seal)

My new seals looked like whats in the two links below, the guide is now built into the seal so its impossible to reverse them. Its hard to tell with your picture if your seal has the built in guide, but if they are the seperate steel guides then i also agree that your seals should be reversed.

Reading your post about the wheel bearing seal i think you may be confusing yourself, think about the diferential housing and keep in mind the axle tubes are dry and the diff is wet, the back of the seal holds in the oil, on a wheel bearing the back of the seal holds in the grease or on an HO52 the gear oil. I hope i'm helping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Federal-Mogu...6#ht_990wt_916

Amazon.com: National 5131 Oil Seal: Automotive.
.
.
.

[cwilkie]

Hmm. This is the seal I got from my local parts store and it was the same as the ones I took out of the axle tubes. I assumed this seal and the guide cone work together where the one you're showing may work without the guide cone. Regardless like the other seals I successfully installed the lip was facing toward whatever it is being sealed. There was no spring in this particular seal.

I figure if these seals fail I'll go with the National 5131. Now does the 5131 go with the guide cones I have in my axle tubes. I don't mind taking everything apart because I enjoy the time in the garage.

[cwilkie]

According to autozone I have the correct seals. Time will tell I guess.

[swamp rat]

The 5131 is not used with the steel guides.

So looking at that (faded) cross section pic lower right, the right side of it is the rear of the seal and should be facing the diff, if you concour then you should be ok, its just dificult to see the lip of the seal in your install picture.

[swamp rat]

Originally Posted by cwilkie

According to autozone I have the correct seals. Time will tell I guess.

This picture shows the face of the seal and you can see the lip is at the rear, with this pic the face go's toward the axle tube so the lip of the seal is toward the diff..

The seals are old style VS new style, nothing wrong with your seals just make sure the lip is facing the diff

[cwilkie]

Well the truck is all back together! Just need to an alignment this week. Thank you all for your help. It was needed and very appreciated!