86FS frame under my 51

[twinturbo51]

I have been putting my 51 onto an 86 fullsize shortbed frame and rolling chassis have not ran into anything remotely a problem yet.Was wondering why noone else has attempted it or if so do they have any suggestions about it?I havent found anything online about it yet eaither.I used it for a couple of reasons.1 the truck(86) was a donor.Has a fresh target master 350 long tubes and flows on it, backed by a 400 turbo.2 I figured the frame would be strong enough to handle the added horsepower given my the twin tubo setup getting installed.I chanelled the floor 3 inches( am probably going to go 4) over the frame and am cutting the floorpan out of the 86 to use as the new floor in the 51.The bed floor between the wheel wells on the 86 is the same width as the floor in the 51 so I am going to cut it out and use it as the bed floor.My steering column has been cut into to where the 51 column now houses the 86 shaft so I can keep the old look in the truck but now have power steering.Only thing I see that I will have a problem with(maybe) Is the front frame horns and radiator support.Looks like front is alot longer on 86 so I am going to cut the front nose off and build a new radiator support for the truck.Oh yeah upper and lower control arms will have to be trimmed back 1 in on both sides to accoidate the lowered stance for turning radius.I am running 15x5 and 15x6 ralleys with 4in wide whites on it.So to get back to the post question does anyone have any experience in this kind of frame swap or know of any articles pertaining to this.Thanks from a newbee...the site is awesome and you guys have some sweet rides.

[TooMany2count]

one site
2nd site
3rd site
4th site w/some great tech tips


lots of folks have gone this way, others use S10's, while others subframe the stock frame w/whatever clip they decide to use.. all are great ideas, the only thing i have heard is some folks say the wheels stick out when using the fullsize frame swap. i personaly cant tell ya cause i'm using an S10 frame under my project, BUT i have seen a few that do stick out & others that dont & was told to use a different offset rim...joe

[twinturbo51]

Thanks Joe for the comment.I have noticed the rearend is a little wider then a camaro/chevelle.I am hoping wheels vintique can make me the right offset on a steel wheel to compinate it for me.

[Phat]

That is the problem the 86 frame is too wide and the tires stick out. You can see one a mile away.You also wont get it low even with dropped spindles. some guys just use the front crossmember as it unbolts.
The s-10 is too narrow and the front looks funny with the tires inset so far. Diff offset wheels just raises all sorts of other problem. Not many look very good if they even get finished. 100s of projects laying around with the s-10 deal that will never see the road agian
Stock frames under these trucks are fine. You can do a IFS kit in about a day and be done with it. Here is one that the guy tried to hide because it was too wide with skinny tires...it didnt work.
Too late for you guys but i bet the next one you do will be diff. Lot of work for no real big gain other than IFS.
Not bustin on you guys i would just like too end this s-10 myth about how cheap and easy it is and how it fits everthing. In fact it does not fit anything most times with trucks you have a hard time mounting everything except the cab.

[TooMany2count]

AD Truck to S10 frame swap Parts
3 AD truck on S10 frames & slammed
look for 47-45 chevy/gmc mock up
and i have seen some folks use the 4X4 s10/blazer frame also w/good luck.
yes i know all about the offset of the front suspension BUT that can be corrected by doing a tall spindle & upper control arm swap along w/rims(which i'm doing) & there would NO problem what so ever if ya had to run 8 inch rims in the front.
seeing that i can pick up s10 frames all day long for about $100 & spend about $500 for the tall spindle/control arm swap & a wider rear axle (which u need), i think i'd rather do that then spend $1200 to several thousands of $$$$ to do JUST a front suspension . some use other front snubs from cars to do a subframing, some love the stock style stuff & will use dropped axles & lowwered springs to get what they want. some have even use the late model stuff & THEY MAKE it work & it looks correct. to each his own on what ya like. all i know is I WILL NOT say IT WILL NOT WORK unless i see it in person & then it could be the installer had no idea what he was doing ...joe


the trucks below are on S10 frames, i guess u better tell these guys they have no idea what they are doing.....

[Phat]

Not gonna bash those trucks but....if thats what you like more power too yah.
I have one with over 355,00 miles on it and it cost 2200 bucks too build. I have built more ADs than those guys have had in there shop in the last 10 years. Oh thats right they have not been doing it for the last 10 year. Just saying i could build and AD cheaper easer and much better looking than and s-10. Sorry you got sucked in....how many hours you have in yours so far for and too narrow s-10 clip ?
You wont give in because you got sucked in by the s-10 craze. Oh well you can lead a horse to water but yah cant make him drink. Think i will go take a nice ride in my stock frame straight axle truck thats lower ,cheaper and has driven in 22 out of the 50 states. have fun cutting floors ,firewalls and frames too keep up with the fast food burger boys.
You dont want too go aginst me as far as Ads and suspensions i have doine it all and know what works. thisnk i will stop here as its starting too be a bash deal and thats for the looser site that sells burgers.

[Phat]

Oh and those trucks....look really dumb with the rear too wide and the front too narrow.

[twinturbo51]

Well PHAT I didnt know that when I asked for help that I would get such a lovely response from an avid truck builder like yourself.I am proud and happy to hear that you like the ads setup.And I am glad it is working for you.If I remember corecetly I asked if anyone had info on what I was trying to build.I dont think I mentioned anything about an ads so keep your comments to yourself please.What one person likes is not always what everyone else does.I have since had the front uppers and lowers narrowed to solve my problem.Oh and for not being low enough....my front bumper is 2 1/2 inches off the ground cruising hieght.The rearend I solved that problem by putting a chevelle rearend under it.As for money I need to buy glass for it at 500.00 and then will be complete with a cost of 3250.00 includig price of both trucks and turbo kit.Thanks or the comments and info guys.

[TooMany2count]

man phats, i love a guy who THINKS he knows everything & is so full of himself that he must look down on everyone elses opinion unless they agree w/him.

u build urs the way u want too & i'll build mine the way i want too & everyone else will do it thier way. but then big difference between u and myself is i won't stand there & tell u everything YOU should of done to ur truck(but the way I would of done it) but rather admire it for the work u did.

all i ever i do around here is find & give the info people want & then give my OWN opinion of what "I" might do. i could care less how or what they do next it as long as they are have'n fun doing it & it's within their means & they like what they end up with.

oooo by the way, when i got my burb i got a body w/a frame that weighed about 1500 lbs more then the S10 one i'm using & w/the spindle/control arm swap (which by the way came about through racing) i'll still have less then $750 in my complete drivetrain & suspension. but then if i used ur ideas & thoughts i'd be still sitting on my ass wondering how to put disc brakes & lower my truck using 1ton suspension parts that you either cant find or u have to get a loan to buy since the 1/2 & 3/4ton parts won't fit. and damn i'm sure i could find hi-way gears to fit that rearend that used 17inch drums that no one makes anymore. unless i spend LOTSSSSS of $$$$$$$$ to make it work, nope i'm a cheap bastard
but then i guess i could of taken a 1/2ton frame & make it longer which would of been fun since the frame get wider the farther back u go. damn now i'm back to my dumbass idea of using a S10 frame or whatever front suspension i have on hand again since i have no other choice. i guess i'll just have to make due w/what i have since it's cheap & it'll work just fine for little o'me.

[Phat]

Twin I know what you mean about cutting a-frames as i have fixed one that way but did you fix the center link and check roll centers. It all changed... if you have a bumpsteer gauge you will see how bad in 3 inches. Hey you asked why no one was doing it I only answered having had the misfortune of fixin one. If you replaced everthing with new on the frontend it is not cheaper nor easer. Just the fact. The rears seem to be allright we us them all the time as they are only about 1/2 inch wider(4x4 if we want six lug look)
Toomany i rather prefer the 1ton frame for the reasons you explain,straight frame is much stonger than a peice cobled together one. Gas tanks also fit better and vette stuff fits nice(vette stuff is cheap around here c-4 rear and front is about 600-1000 bucks)...i have not done a burb and have looked at yours after you got so excited.(sorry i did not look first as i was not knocking your pride and joy but it seems you are having the same problems i explained) You know what i say is the truth as i have put the caddy motor in with no firewall mods on your stock frame.I will also tell you that motor is a good mix in these.Great torque and run well with the aftermarket starting too notice
Sorry you are upset,but later on you will know what i am talking about after you cut your frames build firewalls and new floors. Same thing with the frontend i am talking all new you are talkin sandblasted rebuilt frontend parts so prices cant be compared but they come in close if you buy a rebuilt steerin box. As i said before .1500 to 2 grand and its ready too rock in 1-2 days with out cutting anything. I mean right down to no screwing with body mounts no screwing with bumper mounts no screwing with radaitor supports no cutting floors ,firewalls or cutting frames to fix wheel bases I guess you did not get my point about helping others as your allready past the point of no return and have to go the way you choose.I just wanted people too know its not the cat arse like is told in all these mags and websites.trucks or cars!!!
Hey goodluck and you might want to check your scales that whole 1 ton frame dont weight that much or 2 of us here in the shop are pretty strong Sorry you thought i was looking down on you but i thought i was catching you before you went through the heartache

[Brainchild]

Originally Posted by Phat

Oh and those trucks....look really dumb with the rear too wide and the front too narrow.

Personally I like the look of those trucks,and am even concidering the same swap.And for many reasons.Disc brakes,IFS,PB,PS,$$,parts availiblity,$$.
Never figured it was gonna be really easy,but seems the real lowcost solution for me.

Too Many,here is a link of intrest for you possibly

http://www.commerce.usask.ca/staff/h...swap.html#body

[TooMany2count]

http://chevy.tocmp.com/chevyresto/4953.htm look here & do the math, i do stand corrected though the 1ton weight about 1000lbs more & only 112lbs of it is the body. i dont think a vette suspension or any other regular car suspension would work very well. like i said the stock frame is almost 2x thicker. i like what i'm using & it fits my budget & everything i have done to my truck was & is for a reason...joe

[Phat]

Hey Joe let me say this when i first posted ...I did not know you were allready doing it and wish i had sugar coated my post a bit if i had known.Someone asked and opinion and you know how opinions are. I know of the same guy doing the 4x4 but he has worked his butt off for many years on the burb and will admit it might have been a mistake.
The cost if you added it up is much more with a S-10 but you allready know that in your heart. I know i still have to pay for S-10s and unless i can buy one with 8-10,000 miles on it it will need wheel bearings ,wheel seals,rotors,rebuilt calipers, balljoints,centerlink,inner tierods,outer tie rods,idler arm,coil springs,shocks,rebuilt steering box,a-frame bushings,swaybar bushings,swaybar links,plus labor to rebuild all this stuff to be even up to a cheap stang II "kit".Now unless you dont pay for steel,welding gas,welding wire,electric bill(about 200-500 hundred when your done)cutting wheels, sawzall blades,cut off wheels,and oxy act if you had to cut the S-10 up and haul it away...your way over the top of 1500 to 2 grand for all new with a rebuilt rack and a 1-2 day install. It might make you feel better as you paid these a little at a time. Also with these newer frames they dont like to be cut and added too. Shortening is OK. But added peices just adds problems even if you have a jig or chassis plate. Hey your well on your way and what ever i say aint gonna help but you have to be truthful with yourself if you were too do it again. I do come off like smart ass as i have done lots of clips(raced NASCAR weekly division so they got wrecked pretty often) and frame swaps but learned from mistakes.
Good luck with your burb,next time i will check to see if the guy really wants input or wants to be reassured.
One last thing the vette stuff will hold up too anything and is about the cheapest thing now adays with c-4 front and rear stuff at around 600-1000 for the whole pile of crap. But it still needs to be rebuilt also. Later

[Phat]

Here is a link if somebodys heart is set on it. I dont like the looks of it but you be the judge http://www.ad-engineering.com/

[Don Meyer]

Phat - Do you make your own brackets for mounting the C4 suspension. If you do I'd like to see some pictures.
Thanks Don

[DennyB]

Phat,
The key to these fourms are to have positive discussions w/o turning posts into pissing matches.
Lets try to kep this thread unlocked. ok.

Denny
Moderator

[MAC67]

sorry twin , i didnt read through the hole thread because of phats mindless rantings , joe has some really good advise , listen to him , dont know if this is along the lines you are looking for , but here is a 49 international i did onto a 74 chevyy truck frame , it worked beutifully and yeah it got plenty low with no problems

[twinturbo51]

Thanks for the pics MAC. I have been working on front nd and do believe I have it where it needs to be.Was told my an old man that knows "everything" about these bodytyle trucks what I had and he told me the track was 2 in wider on my 86 over the 51.I solved it by having the uppper and lower tubular control arms narrowed and am running a 15x5 ralley with FWW in front.Wont be avle to do a full fit until my rims come in from wheels vintique.As for the older fella his name is Oscar, met him at the swap meet in FT/W,TX this weekend nd he has a shop in Dallas and sells just about anything and everything for 47-72 chevrolet.The stuff I saw was ol original stuff Grilles ,aprons,fenders,mirrors,etc and all were in great shape.I will do a plug for the guy if it is ok, e-mail addy majestictrk@juno.com #972-248-6245. I did not purchase anything today from him, but am going to get all my glass and weatherstriping from him.Noticed your from Shelbyville, nice lake yall have there.Been there many of times.My pops lives in Toledo,IL and when I get up there we go fishing there.

Thanks again Joe and all you other guys for all your helpful pics and links.
Will continue the journey again tomorrow on bringing my 51 back alive.
Corey

[Phat]

Originally Posted by DennyB

Phat,
The key to these fourms are to have positive discussions w/o turning posts into pissing matches.
Lets try to kep this thread unlocked. ok.

Denny
Moderator

Your right...sorry Denny

[Phat]

Don I cant find all the pixs of the last C-4 i did but here is one of the first ones i did. You can buy kits now but i like the 3/4 and 1 ton frame and they dont make kits for them. I had to replace the firewall on this one because somebody cut the crap out of it.Most times i just weld em up.I dont like the vette rack after driving a few...so i use the supercoupe rack now. Gives it more room for the engine too as the vette rack has fittings on top. Its just too quick to be fun. I will see if i still have your e-mail and find the rest of the install stuff and send it to you. Got the c-4 stuff under my Nash also on shock waves.

[TooMany2count]

i'll have to say it phats, thats one nice & clean set up ya got there...joe

[twinturbo51]

Hey Phat, 2 queations...... what brand of firewall is that and wha fuel tank did you use.I like the setup on that truck.I was thinking of buying a fuel cell but I am sure you know like me those are around 100.00 for 16 gal. and the one I saw didnt ven have a sending unit.Thanks all these pics have either heped me head in the right direction or given me ideas to tweek on to make it more my own style.
Corey

[Phat]

Thanks Joe I want to try and use the torque arm on the next one but this stuff came out of a fire so it did not look to good in the middle part of the car.Looked like a splash job too me.

[Phat]

Twin i use a gas tank from about 88 fullsize chev van straps and all.(i get em free from a company that did propane changeovers) That way you can put a regular pickup tube in it or the fuel injection pump in the tank. It holds about 22 gals and does not drag the ground but clears the bed.
That firewall i made but it is a direct copy of a *****in ....i dont make them anymore as *****in makes a real nice one and the install is about 2 hours start to finish.
Cant say enough about *****in products....i like to make most stuff but they do a good job at a fair price.

[Panelrodder]

Originally Posted by Phat

That firewall i made but it is a direct copy of a *****in ....i dont make them anymore as *****in makes a real nice one and the install is about 2 hours start to finish.
Cant say enough about *****in products....i like to make most stuff but they do a good job at a fair price.

I agree with Phat about the *****in' products. I have the firewall, front, and rear floor kits in my panel. Were a snap to put in and look... well, *****IN' After my experience with them and there parts, I would buy from them and recommend them any time! BUY *****IN' !!!!