The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > 47 - Current classic GM Trucks > The 1973 - 1987 Chevrolet & GMC Squarebody Pickups Message Board

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-29-2016, 09:02 PM   #1
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio etc

in this thread I would like to share with you my trials and tribulations and the learning process of tuning my beloved '74 small block Chevy using the Dual Wideband Oxygen Sensor(s) Gauge Kit setup from a company called INNOVATE

now I haven't done this procedure before so don't be cruel, I've also haven't been able to find any proper info on the Web or YouTube specifically for tunning a carburated Chevy Small Block SBC especially with dual exhaust, so I will try to be as thorough as possible to share what I learn and discover but I hope for this to be a bit of a polite back and forth, where questions get asked and answers are given

so first a glossy stolen pic or two from the INNOVATE website of what I will be buying

First Disclaimer: now there might be some redundancy and word overlap with my long Restoring Rusty thread so that's why I started a new thread just for this topic


I am going to spew a lot of terms, name brands and part numbers to make sure people in the future who are going to be looking for some information on this topic can find it, so after a while just gloss over the repetitive nonsense like below

DLG-1: Dual Lambda (Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio x 2) OLED Gauge

P/N: 3891

LC-2: Digital Wideband "Lambda" OČ Controller (only pic one below)

P/N: 3877

P/N: 3884

P/N: 3881

MTX-D: Dual Function Vacuum/Boost & Shift Light Gauge

P/N: 3851

Disclaimer #2: I am not affiliated with INNOVATE in any way, again this is for informational purposes only I am not pushing their product on anybody
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Gregski; 09-25-2018 at 06:30 PM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2016, 09:16 PM   #2
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

First let me say that it seems like this company INNOVATE went out of their way to make the information on their website beyond confusing, I spent nearly two years trying to crack their parts and devices code, ha ha

so here is a layman's translation

INNOVATE makes two types of gauges / tools / devices what ever you want to call them

1. the FIRST kind are the portable type this is where you buy some equipment and keep it in a case, when your buddy shows up to tune their car you bust out the black box from the carrying case and you temporarily shove a BOSCH oxygen sensor in the tailpipe and you read the screen on your INNOVATE black box and press buttons on that black box to make things happen ~ we are not going to be using this type ~

2. the SECOND or other type of gizmos they make are permanently installed in your car or truck, so you weld a round bung (ie threaded nut) to your exhaust pipe and screw in the BOSCH oxygen sensor in there for good, then you permamently install the round gauges in your dash so the equipment stays in your truck ~ this is the stuff we'll be using

now they make #2 above in different flavors, you can get their analog guages or you can get their digital gauges I opted for the digital ones. Also in addition to making analog and digital gauges they make what I would call "smart" gauges and what we could call "dumb" gauges, more on those later, we will be using both kinds, smart gauges have some computing / processing abilities built in, inside the gauge, dumb gauges rely on an external "helper" box, sometimes called a controller sometimes called SSI-4, or TC-4 don't worry about it just yet

that's important to grasp, if you got it, you are on your way, if you went and got another beer instead, no worries we won't let you fall behind



Last edited by Gregski; 09-24-2016 at 02:03 PM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2016, 09:26 PM   #3
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

so most INNOVATORS out there buy a single gauge / single oxygen sensor kit for their motorcycle with a single exhaust pipe or their Honda four banger again with a single exhaust pipe and that's all they need

but its a bit more involved with two tail pipes, you need a fancier gizmo, if you want to see how both banks are doing and do it right

and this DLG-1 kit aint cheap, it's $400 large that's why it took me nearly 2 years to finally get one, well I finally found one on ebay for $318 and FREE shippin' so I jumped on the bargin
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Gregski; 08-05-2016 at 02:05 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2016, 09:35 PM   #4
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

Well what comes in this sacred kit bro?

DLG-1: Dual Lambda (AFR) Gauge Kit - includes:

one "smart" DLG-1 gauge

two Wideband Bosch LSU4.9 OČ sensors (these are standard $40 dollar sensors they (INNOVATE) sells you for $80 bucks, ha ha

two 8 foot long sensor cables (cause you can't connect the standard BOSCH sensors directly to the gauge for some reason)

LC-2 Wideband Controller (the little black box the size of an iPhone) this is the secret sauce of the DLG-1 kit, more on this later, when the secret is revealed

two OČ sensor weld-on bungs (made from mild steel thank goodness instead of stainless, unless of course you got stainless exhaust pipes, ha ha)

Black/Silver bezel (pretty silly optional plastic round ring if you don't like the black one you take that one off and put on the silver one to impress all your Tunner Boyz) (yeah with a Z)

Black/White faceplate, same goes for this as the bezel above

Serial program cable (a totally outdated serial cable which is all but useless without a serial to USB adapter (not included mind you) to hook up the "smart" gauge and or the controller box to your laptop or [ahem] PC

Installation manual (four pieces of 8.5x11 pieces of paper folder in half and stapled together type a thing)

and don't forget the INNOVATE decal, yeah a sticker
Attached Images
 
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 10:55 AM   #5
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

QUALITY OF PRODUCT = Excellent

ok right wen you unbox this stuff you can feel it is made very well, in other words this is a quality product, it doesn't feel flimsy to the touch it feels bulky, and hefty and all the connections clip into each other perfectly, now I didn't plug it in yet nor have turned it on, this is just a quick feedback on the appearance of the product, cause you fellas know what I am talking about, sometimes you take that new part out of the box and you git that "I ain't puttin this on my truck, the boys would laff me out of the fishing hole if I showed up with this piece of junk on my precious rig" know what I'm a sayin' (I'm lookin' at you JC Whitney, ha ha)

Last edited by Gregski; 09-24-2016 at 02:06 PM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 11:01 AM   #6
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

lets just go over how this stuff plugs into each other

below you will see that "Marketing" picture (again) of that fancy shmancy dual oxygen sensor Air Fuel ratio gauge (man that's a mouthful)

see how it has two cables / wires coming out of it, so you take two oxygen sensors and you plug them into that dual guage - Job Done, right?


~ WRONG ~
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Gregski; 07-30-2016 at 11:13 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 11:07 AM   #7
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

I peaked into the DLG-1 Documentation / Manual before buying this thing (again cause it was so darn expensive that I spent nearly 2 years window shoppin', ha ha) and I was more confused than a goat on astroturf

cause you can see for yourself in the diagram below that this gauge only has one SENSOR CABLE CONNECTOR (the other wires are for something else, the Red/Black/Yellow/White are for hard wiring it for ground and power and the dim switch, standard stuff, the Serial In & Out that's something else entirely, more on that later, but it sure aint for the second O2 sensor)

now you may think geez man why you making a big deal out of this, obviously it works some how, well I think it is important to conceptualize this as it will help you / us when we build up their entire Diagnostic System, you just wait and see, follow along for now, please
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Gregski; 08-05-2016 at 02:06 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 11:24 AM   #8
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

ok, so you take one Oxygen Sensor and you plug that in directly into the Gauge?

~ WRONG ~
Attached Images
 
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 11:25 AM   #9
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

actually you have to use an intermediate sensor cable, (now I have said this before and I will say it again, I have no idea why they didn't just allow you to plug the sensor directly into the gauge) now I know they will argue that well we did not know how long your run was going to be so we give you a 3 foot intermediate cable, or an 8 foot intermediate cable, or even I think an 18 foot intermediate cable, but why not make the default the out of the box be the 3 foot cable? I rest my case
Attached Images
 
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 11:29 AM   #10
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

ok, yes the plugs are different, but they could have easily terminated the cable from the gauge with the big standard Oxygen Sensor type of plug

anyway I am not complaining just being an engineer and asking questions that's all, an RE (Redneck Engineer - that is)

didn't you ever take something apart to see how it works, it's that type of thing

couple close up pics of the different plugs / connectors, they aren't the best pics but you get the idea that they don't mate
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Gregski; 08-05-2016 at 02:09 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 11:31 AM   #11
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

Well how on God's green earth you get that second Oxygen Sensor connected then?

Last edited by Gregski; 08-05-2016 at 02:09 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 02:15 PM   #12
akart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Manley Hot Springs Alaska
Posts: 208
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

Please stop!! Way more than I wanted to know and who cares?? This is another case of you over stating the obvious.
I think you should see someone about your excessive/compulsive disorder.
Really,I mean it.
akart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 02:29 PM   #13
Malo83
Cruzzzn' Vet
 
Malo83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Porterville,Ca.
Posts: 1,919
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

Malo83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 03:54 PM   #14
nonstop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 414
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

Updates? I want to see how well it works out!
nonstop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 04:50 PM   #15
midnight rambler
Registered User
 
midnight rambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: san diego ca
Posts: 603
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

I'm in
midnight rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 08:06 PM   #16
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

so to connect the second oxygen sensor (O2 sensor) to the "dual" air fuel ratio gauge you first need to connect the small black box called a controller

but you can't just plug the Output plug of the controller into the input of the gauge because you see both plugs are FEMALE, you have to use their proprietary intermediate cable, which has two male ends on it, hey they gotta sell you some cords I guess, to me that's as logical as hitting yourself in the head with a hammer cause it feels good when you stop
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Gregski; 07-30-2016 at 09:00 PM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 08:09 PM   #17
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

after you connect the CONTROLLER to the GAUGE (ie daisy chain them) then you connect the second Oxygen Sensor (O2 sensor) to the controller, once again using their other intermediate sensor connector wire
Attached Images
 
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 08:15 PM   #18
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

so in the end their "dual" Air Fuel Ratio Gauge aint dual at all, it only has built in intelligence (ie its own controller) to handle one oxygen sensor input, all it does or all it has the capability to do is display two sets of numbers, ie A and B, but in terms of displaying the second read out it acts like their "dumb" gauges which needs an external controller to operate

now this is either brilliant or a sham depending how you look at it, but I took you through this drill, because you can see how this works, and if you understand it you can see that the possibilities are endless, for example there is a guy who is using two of these "dual" gauge kits to monitor each one of his four cylinders on his Honda Civic, think about it, that is very cool

I could for instance buy 3 more of these dual gauge kits and monitor all eight cylinders, now for a street car this is overkill, but for someone who is serious about racing a non computer equipped vehicle, this is genius and very cool

another way to go at it would be 8 dumb gauges with 8 of those little black box controllers and monitor a V8 engine that way, very cool stuff

below is how things will be connected once installed, whole lot easier to conceptualize it on the kitchen island than all tangled up under the truck in the engine bay, and behind the dash, I'm sure you'll agree
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Gregski; 08-05-2016 at 02:11 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 08:22 PM   #19
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

now than on to the INSTALLATION

the most challenging part of the installation are the oxygen sensors because you have to weld in their bungs, I say this assuming most of us don't own a welding machine, I recently bought one and will be welding in mine, but you have a choice to take your vehicle to a muffler shop and have them weld in the bungs or you could buy these special strap bungs that don't require welding and all you do is drill a hole and just clamp them around the exhaust pipe

I strongly recommend welding your bungs in, as the slightes leak will skew the O2 read outs

a step drill prooves very useful when it comes to making a 1" hole - Harbor Freight $20 bucks
Attached Images
     
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 08:29 PM   #20
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

no excuses but I learned welding outside in 100° F with the sun over your head is no picnic as you're welding helmet is always dimmed cause of the sun and the reflection - sux

I decided to weld the bungs into the cheaper ($30 dollar) header collectors rather than in to my more expensive ($300 Hooker headers)
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Gregski; 07-30-2016 at 08:53 PM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 10:44 AM   #21
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

the recommended position for the oxygen sensors is between 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, if you were sitting in my truck my driver side one is installed at the 1 o'clock position and the passenger side one at the 11 o'clock position, so both are leaning a bit towards the center of the truck, having the oxygen sensors installed like that prevents moisture and or crud from collecting at the sensor point, which doesn't take much to get messed up and give you a miss reading

the BOSCH O2 sensors come pre gooped so you don't need to put additional anti sieze on them

Note: you should never start / run your truck with O2 sensors installed but not hooked up to a power source, that is one sure way to ruin them, they need to be powered up so they get pre heated properly
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Gregski; 08-05-2016 at 02:14 AM.
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 10:49 AM   #22
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

after the O2 sensors were installed it was time to find a permanent location for the DLG-1 dual AFR gauge

the second hole is for the digital vacuum gauge I will buy next month to complete my basic tuning set, the vacuum gauge will log RPM also giving me the essentials: RPM, AFR, and Vacuum

once I have the vacuum gauge I will install both gauges more better ie flush with the front of that rectangular opening, so the current setup is temporary
Attached Images
   
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 04:28 PM   #23
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

after you have the components where you want them it is time to marry the gauge with the controller, INTERFACING they call it, you only connect the gauge to the controller, you do NOT connect anything else, so no oxygen sensors at this time

then you turn the key to power them up

next you hold down both buttons on the DLG-1 gauge for 5 seconds (I am not a big fan of these types of Mario Brothers hidden level tricks, but we do what we are a told)

nothing really happens on the gauge display it starts off reading E2 / E2 and ends with the same display
Attached Images
   
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 04:34 PM   #24
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

the next step is Oxygen SENSOR CALIBRATION

the interesting thing here is that you calibrate the sensors out of the exhaust pipe, in other words with the sensors in free air is what they call it
Attached Images
   
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 04:38 PM   #25
Gregski
Senior Member
 
Gregski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5,362
Re: INNOVATE DLG1 Wideband O2 Oxygen Sensor Tuning Diagnostics Logging Air Fuel Ratio

finally we get to install the oxygen sensors
Attached Images
 
Gregski is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com