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Old 04-22-2018, 09:57 AM   #1
Pinchecharlie
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Where does a guy start?

I have a few more things left to think about doing for metal work before my 65 goes to the body shop. One is the stereo. I know Jack **** about stereos and my head hurts reading about them. After reading these posts it would seem like the coolio units that fit kinda suck? I am putting a lot of effort and money in this pos so I might as well have a good system. I don't need or like the fart car window shaker "boooom boooom" thing but I'd be down for something nice. Should I say f@#$ it and cut a hole and do a modern thing or is there remote systems I could put behind the seat and leave my original as a dummy? I need to finish welding any and all brackets and what ever before she goes away soon. I live in a pretty small town and we have a couple of shops but they are notoriously bad (meth heads lol) so how about a systm that sounds nice and i can play my wifes Pandora doesn't have to be the best. Let's say for 800 to 1200. Don't want extra batteries and crazy stereo competition stuff lol but I like making things so fabrication is ok. If you had a favorite or I wish i would have done this or that it would really help get me started. If this budget is way off let me know and there seems to be quite alot of amps and speakers second hand around too.Thanks charlie
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:01 PM   #2
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Re: Where does a guy start?

I am just getting into this area, but it seems you have at least these 2 options:

A: Send factory radio out to get "converted" to modern guts, gives FM, plays from ipod etc..but still sol for playing a cd if you are into that.

B: use the glovebox as a holder for a good deck (if any exists anymore..) and hide the amp and speakers as best you can around the truck. You use a remote but the thing is hidden away, and you can choose any brand/size you want.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:32 AM   #3
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Re: Where does a guy start?

I think you can accomplish your goals within your budget. Every year there is new technology coming out, it only gets better.

You can keep the original radio as a dummy, and use bluetooth to stream to a hidden system. With some fabrication, you may be able to install a master volume knob in your original AM radio to control the system.

To have full, complete sound, you still need a decent subwoofer. You're not using it for the boooom boooom, but it is still needed to compliment full range sound.

There's several ways to skin this cat. For entry level, I would chose a BT streaming amp, 8" subwoofer, and a component set for the fronts. No rear speakers needed. You can easily do this within budget.

Are you planning on kick panel speakers? Or, Door mount? Or utilizing the dash speaker?

I estimate $3-500 on amp, $100-150 for sub and box, $150-250 for component speakers, $25 -100 wiring/install supplies. If you want tuning capabilities, you need a DSP (digital signal processor), add another $150 entry level or $800 for top of the line.

Need a little more info on where you want to mount speakers, and whether you want tuning capabilities or future mods before I could recommend what amp setup. But for components, look at JL Audio, JBL, Morel, Focal, Image Dynamics. All can be had for under $250. For subwoofer, Image Dynamics ID8 or JL audio 8w3 will get the job done in a small enclosure.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:31 PM   #4
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Kick panels with 6.5 speakers...? 2 - 4 inch in original dash...? F@#$ it cut dash for single din...pioneer he-x00bhs ...I dunno just googled best head units of 2018 lol..your recommendation? Amp and sub and misc elecctronics/ wiring in custom encloser behind seat , no tank....? I don't need to tune stuff or go audiophile. Good wiring from ce electric..I am all ready buying stuff so no biggie. Can do kick panels made from restomod or fabricate it doesn't matter. Don't want to cut up doors if I don't have to. I am allready ditching the kick panel ven't so seems easier. I am ditching the glove box to and can fab something there if needed? Shew...Thanks! I'd take recommendations on parts or a reputable on line shop too.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:44 PM   #5
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Re: Where does a guy start?

P.s I don't understand- power requirements enough to make good choices
Don't know if I could chose the right component speaker/s/crossover or set them up properly?
Don't want extra batteries or alternator
Man I am a hack or what!!
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:50 PM   #6
BIGglaSS
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Don't start buying anything until you have a "general" plan. I'll write more later...
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:57 AM   #7
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Re: Where does a guy start?

I don't do this for a living, and I am reluctant to tell someone exactly what to buy. But I am comfortable steering you in the right direction. 70% of car audio is all about the "name brand". Kind of like buying jeans. Some guys wear Levi, and others wear Wrangler, etc. 20% is rebranded or junk, and 10% is high end audiophile. If you stay with the middle brands, they have upper, mid, and entry levels. Crutchfield, Woofersetc, and sonicelectronix are all good places to online shop, and mostly have the good stuff.

So then, it all comes down to budget. Low budget = low expectations. Entry level and low price would be combing as many units as possible. IE: combo amps, co-axial speakers, no processors.

For every component you separate, the sound quality gets better and the price goes higher. Example: multiple component speakers, multiple amps, and processor.

And then, there is 3 categories, priced low to high:
1. I just want to listen to music or amplified noise.
2. I want sound quality components without breaking the bank
3. Sky is the limit / show quality.

For what you are describing, a simple 3 channel setup in my "category 2" would work: audio signal -> amp(s) -> sub -> front channel components.

Starting with the source. Whether you cut the dash or keep it stock is up to you. Neither is wrong and both will work. I'm not up to speed on bluetooth amps or ipod/pad/phone installs, but I KNOW it can be done easily without head units. I would have to do more research, and I simply don't have time. The problem I see with BT amps, is you have very limited tuning capability. Simple crossover settings, and that's it. If you have a BT interface connected to a DSP, then you can do all tuning, EQ, crossovers via laptop. Set and forget. Mosconi, Helix, JL, and MiniDSP all have reputable DSP. And I believe they even have BT options as well.

If you go with a head unit, you can't go wrong with Pioneer. I'm not familiar with the one you listed, but my daily driver is a Pioneer NEX series. It has the ability to front/rear/sub high pass/low pass crossovers and time alignment. I have found it adequate for tuning without the need for DSP. Pioneer has a couple models with a real DSP, and you can set the speakers as active components. But, that is getting complicated and probably makes your "head hurt".

If you are planning on kick panel speakers, I would suggest skipping the center dash speakers. Most of the sound quality (SQ) guys only run kicks with tweet pods on the A pillars. Unfortunately these trucks don't have much real-estate in the A pillar area. Therefore, the easiest to do is run tweet pods on the dash, or the kick panel.

For "front channel" you have 2 options. Components, or Co-axial. Coax speakers combine a tweeter with the mid-woofer, and usually don't sound as complete as a component system. Components are separate mid-woofer and tweeter. They need to have their own (passive) crossover, or they can be run separately on a multi-channel amp with processing (active). If you buy a component system, they will come with their own passive crossovers, and that is your easy option. I recommend passive components for the front channel. Any brands I mentioned from the above post should adequate. Pick a component set based on the price you are willing to spend, then google some reviews. Typically speaking, a silk tweeter sounds smooth, and a metal tweet sounds high pitch.

For subwoofer, if you don't want boooom booooom, then an 8" sealed will take up little space, and easily fill a single cab truck with the low end sound. A 10" will also work well, and start to get you into the boooomm. Think of it this way: You go to the symphony. If the bass and cello players call in sick, they can still play, but you know something is missing. Once you start listening to music with a sub, you can't listen without it.

Once you pick out some speakers, then we can look at amps. Generally speaking, class D are low power consumers, and class A/B are higher consumers, higher SQ. Though you will get arguments and debates on both. So neither matters. If you want a smaller package with stock alternator/battery, generally speaking, look for a class D amp. You have several options here.

1. A 2 channel for passive component set + mono amp for subwoofer.
2. A 4 channel amp for passive fronts, bridged sub.
3. A a 5 channel amp for active fronts, via DSP, +sub channel

Reputable amps with solid reviews: Zapco, JL Audio, NVX (sonicelectronix), Alpine, and the price goes up from there. $$$$ Mosconi, Helix, and more. I'm not into the 2 name brands that sponsor all the motorsports, but there is nothing wrong with them either. You're just paying for name recognition.

Post up what you have already bought, and some of the speakers you're interested in, and we can go from there.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:54 PM   #8
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Wow thank you! Very I formative and easy to understand . I appreciate your time I know it's valuable. Ok I'll start shopping for the front speakers first and re post and see what ya think. Good news is i know none of these brand names so maybe that will help . Thanks again
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Old 04-25-2018, 01:15 PM   #9
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Ok I said I wasn't going to learn this stuff just say," those look cool and cost 85 bucks, add to cart move on ", but...Now...I see that's too easy and I like to suffer so...
Speakers- when you shop you see
Wattage ratings and rms ratings, I am assuming this translates into volume/clarity?
Ohms, resistance but that's where it ends for me. Are there good reasons to choose different styles?
Frequency ratings, I'll also assume this is for clarity but where do you compromise whith in the ratings? Example is more just better? From 20k to 50 k noticeable?
Cone design ?
Cone material?
Mounting depth, besides being a resource for mounting, can I assume the larger/deeper reflects anything to do with quality? Like a bigger magnet is better?
There are so many choices and to be honest they are all affordable to a point.
Also is there any benifit in staying with the same manufacture as a whole?
My head hurts less but the last thing i need in my life is another obsession. Between 80 and 250 bucks there are several hundred choices! Ok let's see...

I 've tried no to just buy so.ething because it's on clearance but I am wondering how much I would even notice? Sorry to be such a noob.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:15 PM   #10
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Re: Where does a guy start?

First step, and its easy and free: Listen to the latest C10 Talk podcast. Its all about audio. Now I may not 100% agree with some of the advice, overall its great. Now I've been in the custom audio/video business for 19 years now, primarily residential, so I've formulated some of my own opinions

BIGglaSS offers up some great advice.

Here's the system I'm putting in my '72. I really need to finish wiring it up so I can tell people how it sounds. I'll include retail price to give you an idea on budget. I primarily chose these brands because I use these in marine installs and can get dealer pricing.

Source: Exile Audio Bluetooth Receiver. I had this sitting on the shelf and its quick and easy to install. I may try a RetroSound/Custom AutoSound headunit down the road to see what I think. $50.

Amp: Rockford Fosgate Prime R300x4 50Wx4 RMS 4-Channel Amp. I had the R250X4 in my '67 and it surprised me as far as sound quality on a budget. Again I may upgrade to a nicer one down the road but this will get the system up and running. Plus I like to tinker. $200.

Speakers: (Fronts) Rockford Fosgate Punch P142 4" Coaxial Speakers in the factory dash location. Again had these in my '67 and like them. I made plate out of MDF and a bent a metal bracket to mount in stock location. The dude from Kicker claims these aren't necessary so I plan to try with and without to see what I think. $70.

(Kickpanels). Rockford Fosgate Punch P-1675-S 6.75" Component Set. I've decided to mount the tweeters on the dash where the factory AC vents are. Will play around with locations to get the best sound. $140.

RetroSound Kickpanel pods. I lined the kickpanel and pods with DynaMat I had lying around to help with vibration. $70 + a few dollars for sound deadening.

Subwoofer: Rockford Fosgate PS-8 amplified 8" subwoofer. I've not heard this but will here soon . Going to place it under the seat. I've set it up to run (2) if I feel the need. This truck still has the gas tank behind the seat so a custom box isn't really an option. $300.

Wire: I've been real happy with T-Spec and since I can get it at cost I'm using it. I'm using 4GA primarily because I can and may upgrade the amp and add another sub down the line. This kit is about $75 but probably could get a good 8-GA with speaker wire for the same price. $75.

Grand total: $905 going off manufacturer's websites.

I'm not saying this an the end-all-be-all system but a good reference point.
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:57 AM   #11
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Quote:
Wattage ratings and rms ratings, I am assuming this translates into volume/clarity?
Ohms, resistance but that's where it ends for me. Are there good reasons to choose different styles?
Don't worry about this right now. Most decent component sets are in the 50-100 rms range, and 4 ohm. We can find an amp that will be suitable. It is best to have more amp rms than speaker rms. You don't use that extra power, it is called "headroom".

Quote:
Frequency ratings, I'll also assume this is for clarity but where do you compromise whith in the ratings? Example is more just better? From 20k to 50 k noticeable?
Cone design ?
Cone material?
This doesn't matter until you get to "obsessive audiophile" status. Even those guys, are constantly selling their used stuff to buy something different. I've read that most people don't notice the upper range. I asked the same question about cone material on the audio forum. Didn't get much response because it is a personal taste. Most guys look at a frequency graph to pick individual speaker drivers, and analyze "q" "f", etc. That's too complicated for what we're doing here. (nor do I fully understand it)

Quote:
Also is there any benifit in staying with the same manufacture as a whole?
Nope. It is just for looks, or to say "my car has ...." Every different brand and every different speaker is going to have it's own unique tone. And, two identical systems are going to sound different in two different cars. You don't have the means to test listen to every possible combination available. That's one reason that I don't have a specific recommendation.

Quote:
last thing i need in my life is another obsession. Between 80 and 250 bucks there are several hundred choices! Ok let's see... I 've tried no to just buy so.ething because it's on clearance but I am wondering how much I would even notice? Sorry to be such a noob.
haha... My wife is wondering what my next obsession is going to be... I like clearance. Speaking of clearance, I'm intrigued by these:
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-GTO609C-P.../dp/B00ANI3LAK
Based on spec's, they could be a solid choice. They were discontinued a few years ago, so I don't know if they're BNIB or refurb.

These may be a hidden gem if you aren't concerned with "brand name logos". Made by a company called SB Acoustics:
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...-VSP65KIT.html

Slowcpe:
Sounds like you have a solid setup. My 57 using coupons and finding deals (not yet installed): Retrosound HU $244. Zapco ST-5xII (5 channel) amp $199. Image Dynamics 5x7 components (kick panel) $240. Wiring $32. Still to purchase: ID8 sub $85. MiniDSP $115.

I could have cut costs on components. But I was on a mission to find a speaker I could hide behind a 63 belair vent cover:


Quote:
Source: Exile Audio Bluetooth Receiver. I had this sitting on the shelf and its quick and easy to install.
I have been searching for something like this that has a FM tuner that could be accessed via iPhone. Do you know of any such thing?
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:59 AM   #12
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Re: Where does a guy start?

On the keeping with same brands I might add try and stay the same on speakers. If you do more than 1 pair it's best to have them timbre matched. You start mixing metal dome tweets for one pair and silk dome for the other it could sound weird. The rest of the gear it really doesn't matter.

Car audio gear is so heavily discounted online it's hard to make a living selling it unless you do high-end installs. That's why I've stuck with residential with the occasional boat system for clients/friends. You can find some screaming deals.

As far as the Bluetooth with FM receiver I have not. Clarion makes a cool little marine setup I've considered for my '67 but every Clarion headunit I've ever fooled with in a boat gives me next to nothing in terms of tuning. I'm using the Exile as a temp source until I find something I like.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:04 AM   #13
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Re: Where does a guy start?

That came out nice Man!
Ok so more confusion... when I first started thinnin...
I thought, there must be a unit that has no display but all the features that goes in trunk or under seat or whatever and has a small but nice control unit on dash or steering wheel?
So I see that for marine use they have it but not really for cars? And when they say Bluetooth does that just mean for a device or for no wiring? What I want is to not use my phone but to not have to open the glove box to turn stuff on or change channels ect...?
If I as m going to brutallize the dash might as well be double din.
So do you like the retro sound unit paired with other electronics? Worth the extra 100 or so bucks? Would it compare to a brand name single din in the same price range or is it simply not to cut dash? Thanks for your help I've learned a lot and I am actually having a bit of fun. My wife is going to be pissed when I have a 3k dollar stereo in my truck to listen to the news before work!
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:13 AM   #14
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Re: Where does a guy start?

For a black box/small remote you are looking at marine/utv/motorcycle setups. They will work in a car/truck with no problem. Fosgate has a cool looking unit but you have to be a certified dealer which I am not. Clarion also has one that looks cool.

While I have no experience with retro headunits I doubt they are of the highest quality in the sound department but it should get the job done for the average to above average sound system. A car headunit would probably sound better but how much I don't know.

Bluetooth is primarily for wirelessly playing music from your phone.
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1967/71 Blue SWB C10..SOLD
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:45 AM   #15
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Re: Where does a guy start?

i like the grill for the vintage air too. you going to paint it? allways hated how those things hang in space. seems like they would try just a little harder with their products honestly. killer projects!

ok so marine remotes will work with regular head units right? just a remote right? so you pick your head unit and stash it away and then sync or wire a remote and thats that lol?
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:41 PM   #16
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Re: Where does a guy start?

I'm not 100% sure on marine remotes working with regular headunits. I'm wanting to think some models do but not for sure.

Here's a few of what I'm talking about. The remote connects to a black box you can hide under the seat.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_020CMS....html?tp=61742

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_020CMS....html?tp=61742

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_822MBB....html?tp=61742

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_020CMS....html?tp=61742

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PMX....html?tp=61742
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PMX....html?tp=61742
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Old 04-26-2018, 06:51 PM   #17
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Hmm..pretty interesting! Sucks that the best bang for the buck is still just a single din head unit. No matter how you try to cheat the system it all comes back to cutting the dash. So I think I'll make a coolio panel with a flip/slide door that simple pulls out and swings down to conceal the head unit. The other this g I don't like is how busy these things appear. To many bells and whistles. I like the pioneer head unit DEX-P99RS that appears very modest until...the price tag at 1100 yikes Why aren't there .more in this style? Is everyone who's Into car stereos a medical marijuana patient? I guess I am old.
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Old 04-27-2018, 02:17 PM   #18
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Since the retrosund HU is still in the box, and not in the dash, I can't comment. I suspect slowcpe is right, not as great as a comparatively priced other HU. Since I'm only using it for a source signal, I think it will work good. The only reason I got the retrosound is to keep the dash stock. If I'm happy with it, I will get one for my Olds 442. If not, I'm going to figure out how to put a master volume knob in a dummy radio, and not have a HU.

I have mixed feelings on the A/C unit. It is a Restomod Vapir 2. I had to lower it 2-3" and mount it 1" off the firewall just to hook up the ducts. Thus no longer making it "compact". I will probably paint the plate black, or color match to the interior.

The other issue I have with aftermarket A/C, is they don't have an outside air "blend", like modern cars.
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:35 AM   #19
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Great advice from Slowcpe and BIGglaSS!

I hightl recommend the RetroSound head unit! Lots of good features and options and not a bad price.

Slowcpe - Is there a reason you put the sound deadner on RetroSound panels and not on the truck kickpanel?
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:16 PM   #20
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hart_Rod View Post
Slowcpe - Is there a reason you put the sound deadner on RetroSound panels and not on the truck kickpanel?
I actually did deadened on both. Wanted to kill as much vibration as I can.
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1972 Medium Olive SWB-Chester http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=759628
1967/71 Blue SWB C10..SOLD
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:32 PM   #21
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Re: Where does a guy start?

Just curious...why don't guys ditch the ven't and fabricate an opening in the kick panel. You could weld in a surround and seal it to weather and fit a larger or at least a least intrusive speaker. Sometimes the kick pods look like an after thought ? Not complaining just wonder why not? If sure, why not put a 6x9 there? Or is that to big a frewuency? You could do 2-4 inch coax in dash grill and tweeters on dash and the 6x9s in kick? Or is that just dumb lol? Theres nothing back there . A guy could weld a drain into the vent above the kick and have tons of room? I live in montana so dont need a vent and we have vent wing windows too.
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:46 PM   #22
Pinchecharlie
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bozeman
Posts: 201
Re: Where does a guy start?

So check my very novice selection.
These choices where made using recomendations then searching reviews then being sucked in by marketing! So I would like to consider this my premium package (Just mine not a rral"premium")
I would also appreciate it if you guys would steer me clear with obvious (to you) alternatives that would be a "standard" package and we could go even further to an economy if your bored?

Rockford Fosgate Power T600-4
Pioneer DEH-80PRS
CD receiver
Morel Maximus 602
6-1/2" component
JL Audio CP108LG-W3v3
MicroSub™ slot-ported enclosure with one 8" W3v3 subwoofer
200 over budget less install supplies. I think the amp comes with an install kit and Some other misc stuff ad a extra for purchase but good wire and fuses I am sure I'll have to buy
Whataya think? Dumb? Sucked in?
Total is 1450.95
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:54 AM   #23
BIGglaSS
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Location: ID
Posts: 488
Re: Where does a guy start?

I think that's a solid choice. Before you pull out the credit card.... If you go with the DEH-80 prs,, you have another option. Active 2-way front stage! This system would really shine with a 5 channel amp, or add a mono subwoofer amp, and the additional cost would be worth it. Let me look up a couple things, and I'll post back later tonight.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:05 AM   #24
BIGglaSS
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Re: Where does a guy start?

I will hit your previous questions later... Meanwhile, would you prefer a remote bass knob? You can adjust the subwoofer level on the fly for different songs. Or, doesn't matter, set and forget?
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:39 AM   #25
Pinchecharlie
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Location: Bozeman
Posts: 201
Re: Where does a guy start?

Sure wht not! All ways good to be able to change things easier. Thanks nan!
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