1965 4X4 Conversion, Suburban Frame Swap?

[zghorner]

I know 4x4 conversion questions get brought up a lot...and I have been searching it to death. Most threads on the topic are incomplete projects so I thought I would annoy you veterans by asking the question again:

If one was going to convert a 1965 LWB C10 to 4X4, would you recommend setting the body on a '91 or older suburban frame, or swap the 4x4 parts from the burban? Assuming the 3" or so body lift I would gain was a plus.

I like the idea of buying an 87-91 suburban and using the powertrain, frame and all...

Here is some info I found on doing the swap...makes it sound a lot easier than it probably is:

"i put a '64 chevy c10 onto a '78 chevy suburban frame wasn't really all to hard just had to use some 2x2 square tube as shims original intent was body lift but i needed to use two stacked plus the body mounts from the suburban in the front for the core suport and just a single 2x2 for all four monting spots for the cab and then for the bed just the front 4 mounts need a 2x2 and the back four are just on the frame i also had to cut off bout 8 in. of frame on the back cause it stuck out that far. big thing is to take all the mounting brackets off the your 66 frame and bolt them to your new frame (core support ones can be left on just need a plate to move the hole back? i couldn't relocate cause the powersteering gear) and my clutch linkage is all rigged up cause i couldn't find the right parts so i used several pieces from differen't trucks, you'll also have to shorten the steering shaft 1 in. give or take a hair if you use the original column not sure what you'll all have to do to use a newer one...."

[RedRoad]

Years back I did a 58 panel truck on a 74 SWB 4x4 frame and while it worked it was a real PITA. If I was to do it again I would use the original frame and add the needed components.

I wanted a 4x4 60-66 suburban but could never find a good candidate so looked for a more common 2wd to convert. My plan was to find a leaf spring rear burb (GMC or rare Chevy)with a 4 speed and add the front hangers and front cross members from a 67-72 K truck. Add a dodge divorced 205 transfer case and a Dana 44 up front to match the 6 lug 12 bolt rear. In the end I was only able to find a coil rear burb and then a real K20 burb and left the 2wd alone.

If I were to do it today I would still look for a rear leaf spring truck and use the DIY hangers that use late springs for a good ride and great flex.

[zghorner]

Thanks for the reply man.

Ive just come to a crossroads with my project and after careful consideration I feel that the truck would get a lot more use and be better suited as a 4x4. nothing is set in stone yet but from what I have found, the only 2 problems with the project are 1: titling issues (which I'm not worried about as I will buy a complete suburban) and 2: the body sits up too high for some (which as mentioned before, I see as a + since I am going 4x4).

My inexperience with projects like this has me a bit timid...id like to have some pretty solid input from a few of you that know before I dive into anything.

[dieseldude4bt]

Check out this thread.http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=537789
He used a suburban frame.

[zghorner]

Originally Posted by dieseldude4bt

Check out this thread.http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=537789
He used a suburban frame.

daaaaaang talk about a dream truck. That thing is awesome thanks for the link.

[zghorner]

Anybody else? I found a pretty nice '88 4x4 suburban with a 350 tbi. I would try to use everything I could from it as possible: motor, trans, brakes, radiator, fuel tank, everything.

From my research, the easiest way for me to use the burbans brake booster/master cylinder would be to buy one of captainfab's adapter plates? Any other premade pieces that would make my life a little bit easier?

[dieseldude4bt]

I used a 1978 chevy booster with out any adapters, just drilled holes in the correct location and extended the rod.

[zghorner]

excellent, thank you dieseldude...ill check it out before ordering anything.

[ryanroo]

I dont generally agree with the idea of a frame swap. my first question is, what does it gain you vs. what it saves you. in my opinion it is a negative return.

there is never a good way to make a body fit on a frame it wasnt designed around. it can be done, and in a safe way but it is much less effort to add spring mounts to an existing frame and to torch away the 2wd junk in there than it is to correctly design and build the modifications required to do a body swap. also, if you dont have at a minimum one two post lift at your disposal it becomes infinitely more difficult to measure and design the bracketry that will be needed to safely fit the wrong body on the frame. it should require several up and down test fit cycles and measurements to design and install the new body mounts to the frame. if you are willing to accept the likelihood that it will look funky and never quite right, have the ability and tools necessary to do it safely and correctly, and its what you want, then go for the body swap. my recommendation will always be converting the existing frame or building a completely new one to the requirements you decide.

you will also have to relocate the rear axle in the suburban frame. the wheelbase is 4 inches different, maybe a touch more.

[zghorner]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

I dont generally agree with the idea of a frame swap. my first question is, what does it gain you vs. what it saves you. in my opinion it is a negative return.

there is never a good way to make a body fit on a frame it wasnt designed around. it can be done, and in a safe way but it is much less effort to add spring mounts to an existing frame and to torch away the 2wd junk in there than it is to correctly design and build the modifications required to do a body swap. also, if you dont have at a minimum one two post lift at your disposal it becomes infinitely more difficult to measure and design the bracketry that will be needed to safely fit the wrong body on the frame. it should require several up and down test fit cycles and measurements to design and install the new body mounts to the frame. if you are willing to accept the likelihood that it will look funky and never quite right, have the ability and tools necessary to do it safely and correctly, and its what you want, then go for the body swap. my recommendation will always be converting the existing frame or building a completely new one to the requirements you decide.

you will also have to relocate the rear axle in the suburban frame. the wheelbase is 4 inches different, maybe a touch more.

I see what you are saying, and I'm sure the project will suck...badly. To me it just seems easier to put my body on the suburban chassis and gain the newer drive train, 4x4 front end, upgraded brakes, etc... vs putting all of those things onto the '65 C10

If I were a smart man I would just freshen up the motor that's on it, rebuild/replace the busted tranny and go on with my life...but unfortunately I'm just a dummy and keep telling myself that I would get a lot more use out of a 4wd.

I appreciate the reality check man ill take what you said into consideration.

[dieseldude4bt]

A body swap is not for the faint of heart, it takes a lot of work!
I did my my first conversion on my truck at 19 by myself with no garage and limited tools, it wasn't great but it worked and I drove it for years refining it until i found a 3/4 ton 4x4 frame and decided to build an extended cab.

Having done several conversion I will say it is easier to convert the existing frame if possible.

[andrewmp6]

Can you weld and do you trust your life on your welds ?

[RedRoad]

What are the details on the C10 you plan on converting? Chevy or GMC? Coil or leaf spring rear? Automatic or stick? Is it a running driving truck or another project?

I understand the draw of the "modern" drive train and chassis but most square body 4x4s steering box areas of the frame are cracked or repaired so that is one big downfall you have to be aware of. I would still get one as a donor as you would be able to use the axles, trans, t case, engine and many suspension pieces.

With my panel conversion I was into it under $2K but it was ugly as hell. It had a Rancho 4 inch lift, 454/465/205 with Dana 44 front and 12 bolt rear with 3.73 gears. Did OK off road but was top heavy and had low visibility being a panel. If the panels original frame wasnt already cut and had a front volaire front end I would have just added the axle and drive train to make it 4x4. I already had the 74 as the donor so not spending extra was a bonus. I will say actually using it off road with the body lift all the flex the body cracked pretty bad at the mounting areas, if you do go with the later frame make sure to reinforce the area to prevent it from happening.

Here is the only pic I could find of the panel, I ended up stripping it and selling the body for cheap.

[zghorner]

Originally Posted by andrewmp6

Can you weld and do you trust your life on your welds ?

I can weld but when it comes to frame modification ill call upon some help.

[zghorner]

Originally Posted by RedRoad

What are the details on the C10 you plan on converting? Chevy or GMC? Coil or leaf spring rear? Automatic or stick? Is it a running driving truck or another project?

I understand the draw of the "modern" drive train and chassis but most square body 4x4s steering box areas of the frame are cracked or repaired so that is one big downfall you have to be aware of. I would still get one as a donor as you would be able to use the axles, trans, t case, engine and many suspension pieces.

With my panel conversion I was into it under $2K but it was ugly as hell. It had a Rancho 4 inch lift, 454/465/205 with Dana 44 front and 12 bolt rear with 3.73 gears. Did OK off road but was top heavy and had low visibility being a panel. If the panels original frame wasnt already cut and had a front volaire front end I would have just added the axle and drive train to make it 4x4. I already had the 74 as the donor so not spending extra was a bonus. I will say actually using it off road with the body lift all the flex the body cracked pretty bad at the mounting areas, if you do go with the later frame make sure to reinforce the area to prevent it from happening.

Here is the only pic I could find of the panel, I ended up stripping it and selling the body for cheap.

The motor is good (283) but the transmission needs rebuilt, its a Saginaw 4 speed. LWB Chevy with coil rear.

Truck was given to my dad by my grandpa, and my dad gave it to me. Ill admit that I wish it was in a lot better shape, the cab is rusty and needs all the usual sheet metal replaced.

My dad tried to hotrod it in the 80's and my original plan for the truck (when I got it out of storage last week lol) was to go all out and turbo LS it to stay true to my dads intentions. But the main reason I decided against that is my kids wouldn't really get to enjoy the truck like I did at their age and it wouldn't get driven much.

I may have mentioned this already but I have been looking for a lwb tbi chevy to fart around in and do work around the house and thought it would be cool to kill 2 birds with 1 stone on this truck. I am taking all the advice from you guys and it seems the majority opinion is don't do it. Ive read a bunch of posts similar to..."i did it and after it was all said and done ill never do it again"

[RedRoad]

Family heirloom?!! I would NOT do a conversion on it. Make it a 3/4 ton using a late model front end and put a FF 14bolt with a Detroit locker 3.73 gears in the rear. Power steering and brakes will make it easier to drive

2.5-3 inch 2WD spring lift with some 33s on 16x8 steelies would get the job done.

It would be a great work horse and with a decent engine it wouldnt be a slouch either.

You would be surprised how capable it would be off road with a detroit. My 65 burb with SM420, 12 bolt with 3.73 and posi works well off road with a little use of the ebrake, a detroit with some mud tires would be even better.

[dieseldude4bt]

If you really want 4x4 I would consider doing it with the coil spring rear or finding a leaf spring frame to start with.
It can be done with a latter frame it's just not easy, but don't let that stop you if it's what you really want.

[zghorner]

i wish this forum had a "like" button for individual posts, thanks a bunch guys.

Ill be honest though that I don't care for the idea of keeping it 2wd with a lift and Detroit locker...I do appreciate all of your advice but right now I either want a 4wd, fast 2wd, or just keep it the same.