86 Silverado Father and Son project

[mcbassin]

Moved from the engine and drivetrain section because this turned into a real project!



I am "helping" my son build a truck to drive. So we purchased a 86 swb that needs an engine. Today we purchased a car with a donor engine 92 Buick roadmaster with a 5.7 tbi engine and I think a 700r4 tranny. The first question can I do a direct swap and use the ecu and harness and keep the throttle body? or would be better off throwing the old carburator and intake off the oem 305? Has anyone done this type of swap? can we use the 700r4? I hope to use the serpentine belt setup and I know we probably need to address the fuel supply to the motor. What about emission crap? Can I just chuck it all in the trash? BTW,The fuel inected motor runs good and I think it would be more economical and reliable than a carb. Suggestions? Thanks,
Mike

Here is the truck:

here is the donor engine:

[cableguy0]

that setup could be a direct bolt in. what trans is currently in the truck? if its a 9 inch shaft th350 the 700r4 is a direct bolt in driveshaft will even work. same if its already a 700r4. i would leave the engine as is with the exception of the catalytic converter. the tbi runs great and it will get decent mileage. not gonna set any speed records but will be reliable.you can do the normal upgrades to get a few more ponies out of it. the serpentine setup is definately the way to go. basically drop it in as is. the only issue will be the speed sensor the car has versus a mechanical speedo drive. but there are adapter available to address that too

[mcbassin]

Thanks for the reply Cableguy, I think the tranny was a 350 TH longtail. What about wiring? Is it pretty much plug and play using the TBI harness and ecm? Does this vintage use a high pressure fuel pump located in the tank? Or is it mechanical? I think we are going to start pulling the engine and tranny today. I'm wondering, do you think we can pull it as an assembly, or will we need to seperate it at the flywheel? thanks for your help,
Mike

here is a pic of the original tranny:

[cableguy0]

the fuel pump is easy. its actually a low pressure pump. it is electric but only 15psi. as a matter of fact go find at 86 or 87 truck with tbi and steal the tank out of it and u will have a bolt in deal. just look at some trucks with that setup on it to get a good idea of the wiring. its fairly simple just need to run the powers etc to the proper places. just be very careful when you take the harness out of the car not to break anything and keep track of all grounds to ensure they all get hooked up in the truck. pull all the plastics and radiator etc out of the car pull the fan off and the serpentine brackets just make sure u get all the bolts out. the bolts are all in the same places as all of the older sbc's tho holes on the block and a couple on the heads. drop the tranny crossmember and the engine and trans should come out as a unit. they will definately go into the truck in one piece lots easier to deal with that way.

[cableguy0]

oh and i almost forgot. u will be using the power steering lines from the truck but you hafta swap the adapters out of the pumps. where the line screws into the power steering pump is removable. u need unscrew the line then unscrew the fitting that the line screws into. and swap them from one to another so the threads will match. be careful when u pull the fitting theres a spring it will pop out at you.

[mcbassin]

Thanks again Cableguy! I am hoping this goes smooth. I noticed the a/c compressor is in a different location on the truck. I defenitely think the serpentine belt is the way to go.

I am a little worried about the fuel pump/tank setup. The truck has duel tanks on it. I don't know if it's possible to use both original tanks with the original switching system?

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

oh and i almost forgot. u will be using the power steering lines from the truck but you hafta swap the adapters out of the pumps. where the line screws into the power steering pump is removable. u need unscrew the line then unscrew the fitting that the line screws into. and swap them from one to another so the threads will match. be careful when u pull the fitting theres a spring it will pop out at you.

Cableguy,
I tried to use the high pressure power steering line from the truck it would not mount up to the car engine. (not because of fittings more because of wrong routing) I'm wondering if I need to get a hose that will fit say a 90-92 burb or blazer?

[gchemist]

Here is great article on a TBI swap.
http://users.sfo.com/~eagle/howell.html

[85gmcguy]

In photo #1- that's a vac operated switch to lock up the torque converter in the old transmission. Shouldn't need it with an electronically controlled trans.

[mcbassin]

Update:
I finally got everything to install the fuel lines and pump. Apparently, I screwed up and got a bad or the wrong type pump from ebay recommended in an earlier post. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-F...d=p3911.c0.m14 It was around $50 and the low pressure design. I can't make it prime or have it installed backwards. I should have just ponied up the extra cash for a Walbro or equivelent. I tried for about 2 hours to make it pump and can't. any suggestions? Do the higher volume/pressure unit self prime?
It will run as long as I squirt gas in the t/b.

I still have to tidy the engine compartment and under the dash as well as add the ses light, vss gear assy., and the park neutral switch. I know I am as slow as they come. I just can't put more than an hour here 2 hours there into it at a time. Pics to come.

[cableguy0]

that pump is designed to work with an in tank lift pump to get the fuel to it. that pump puts out around 50psi. the frame rail mounted pumps in those fords are the high pressure pump or boost pump. the in tank pump is the low pressure lift pump

[mcbassin]

I had to order a new fuel pump here: http://www.howellefi.com/customer/se...ubstring=FP257

I am wanting to remove all "unecessary" emission crap from this truck. What if any of these need to be hooked up for the computer and engine to run properly?

Wrong fuel pump installed:

Emission crap?

[rfmaster]

Photo 26

CCP - got keep that - it does not affect performance and allows gas fumes accumulating in gas tanks to be burned in TB.

Photo 28

Driver side AIR injection pipe - disconnect at exhaust manifold and plug.

Photo 25

AIR diverter valve (ECM controlled) and AIR injection check valve (passenger side). Both can be removed (plug vacuum line & leave harness connector unplugged) , but keep them just in case if future compliance may be required. Same goes for the AIR pump, but this may require re-doing serpentine belt system.

//RF

[glock35ipsc]

I would think the speedo (and cluster) from a 90-91 Suburban, Blazer or dually would work. I used a 90 Blazer cluster on my truck, and only had to run one wire from the 5.3L's PCM to the speedo.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

I would think the speedo (and cluster) from a 90-91 Suburban, Blazer or dually would work. I used a 90 Blazer cluster on my truck, and only had to run one wire from the 5.3L's PCM to the speedo.

I assume this is still working good since you have driven Fred for a few weeks now? I am going to try to get to pull a part this weekend to find a cluster and maybe a seat for the truck.

Update: Well, there really isn't a real update since deer season is in full swing right now. My son and I have and will be spending most weekends in the woods from now till December. Anyway, I had the camera outside yesterday and made a little vid. I think we have a vacuum leak, it seems like the idle is noticeably fast in the video. It's not really noticeable when sitting in the driver seat. Notice the high tech temp. SES light. Watch here:

1986Chevy.flv video by mcbassin - Photobucket

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

I assume this is still working good since you have driven Fred for a few weeks now? I am going to try to get to pull a part this weekend to find a cluster and maybe a seat for the truck.

Update: Well, there really isn't a real update since deer season is in full swing right now. My son and I have and will be spending most weekends in the woods from now till December. Anyway, I had the camera outside yesterday and made a little vid. I think we have a vacuum leak, it seems like the idle is noticeably fast in the video. It's not really noticeable when sitting in the driver seat. Notice the high tech temp. SES light. Watch here:

Sweet - I like the size of that SES - can not miss it. With XMAS coming up can we hope for a red or green jumbo LED???? Just kidding.
Have you had a chance to address AC controls and wiring????
//RF

[utvaquero59]

Too bad I didn't catch this thread earlier. I am doing an almost identical swap into my '71. And, we're about to the same stage. Mine's driveable but the wiring isn't 100% done. There's one difference I'm glad of, though: my donor was a '92 Caprice cop car so my VSS has both the electric and mechanical sending units at the transmission. I can hook up a speedo cable to my factory speedo but I'm installing a full set of Autometer gauges in my dash so I'll be going with an Autometer electric speedo when I get to that point.

Right now, my biggest hurdles are: TCC wired into my brake switch, ALDL/SES wiring and the gauges, which are important but sort of separate from the swap itself.

Don't know if it's the right thing to do or not, but I just left the A.I.R. pump installed in the serpentine setup with nothing connected to it. I'm running headers so hooking up the lines was out of the question, anyway.

I'm running a carb-style air filter with the IAT temperature sensor mounted to the base plate. I had to use a 1" spacer on top of the TBI spacer for clearance of the coil but I have no issues with the wiring since it still uses the factory spacer underneath the aftermarket one.

I also used the factory wiring harness. I de-loomed everything and spent many hours (I'm no EE but wish I was!) isolating and removing circuits I didn't want/need. That hardened gel GM used at the bulkhead connector was a particular PITA. I used a heat gun to soften it and scraped it all off with a utility knife. As I recall, the circuits/sensors I left in place were: O2 sensor, CTS, knock sensor, IAC, IAT, TPS, oil pressure, TCC, VSS and A/C.

I called up Brian at tbichips.com and had him custom burn me a chip for my 6965 (the same ECM you've got). I told him exactly what I was keeping and eliminating (smog stuff, mostly) and he burned me a chip with a little hotter than stock specs but I already had "cop car," specs to begin with so he cautioned me it wouldn't be a huge performance gain. But, then again, even the 9C1 police optioned Caprices were only factory rated at 205 hp!

I re-loomed everything I had left with a Summit wire loom kit (pretty cheap and looks great) then fabbed my own (probably not weatherproof) bulkhead seal. When I'm all finished, I'll probably silicone over the wires passing through the bulkhead.


So, if you don't mind since you seem to have expert advise, I'd like to ask what is the function of the VSS module located in the dash cluster in about the center of the Caprice? That's something I didn't realize was there until after I'd gotten rid of the car and one of the wires coming off the VSS is supposed to connect to it. Did it have anything to do with cruise control? Does it serve an important function and do I need to go source one from a JY or can I eliminate that wire? As I recall, there were 3 wires coming off that VSS and the other two are connected to their proper places.

Finally, my old fuse panel only has about 8 or 9 glass fuses and one spade terminal for an unfused ignition hot source. Oh, and one or two spade terminals for constant battery power. I've already wired 3 different EFI-related circuits (with correct-amperage in-line fuses) to these terminals and I still have a couple more circuits that require ignition-hot voltage. Is there a clean way to build a separate fuse panel or buss bar that provides ignition-hot voltage? Maybe a supplemental fuse panel or something? I've checked vendors who specialize in hot rod electrical and haven't found what I'm looking for.

[cableguy0]

you could always steal a underhood fuse/relay center from a never car. just hook up all the injection related stuff through that. In all reality it would probably be a better idea to upgrade the whole truck harness. Something like an 18 circuit painless fuse block would be perfect. would make things a ton cleaner and a lot more reliable than the crappy glass fuses. You already have a high amp alternator thanks to the caprice so your straight on that end but the factory fuse block and harness is a joke when it comes to using modern stuff

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by utvaquero59

Too bad I didn't catch this thread earlier. I am doing an almost identical swap into my '71. And, we're about to the same stage. Mine's driveable but the wiring isn't 100% done. There's one difference I'm glad of, though: my donor was a '92 Caprice cop car so my VSS has both the electric and mechanical sending units at the transmission. I can hook up a speedo cable to my factory speedo but I'm installing a full set of Autometer gauges in my dash so I'll be going with an Autometer electric speedo when I get to that point.

Right now, my biggest hurdles are: TCC wired into my brake switch, ALDL/SES wiring and the gauges, which are important but sort of separate from the swap itself.

Don't know if it's the right thing to do or not, but I just left the A.I.R. pump installed in the serpentine setup with nothing connected to it. I'm running headers so hooking up the lines was out of the question, anyway.

I'm running a carb-style air filter with the IAT temperature sensor mounted to the base plate. I had to use a 1" spacer on top of the TBI spacer for clearance of the coil but I have no issues with the wiring since it still uses the factory spacer underneath the aftermarket one.

I also used the factory wiring harness. I de-loomed everything and spent many hours (I'm no EE but wish I was!) isolating and removing circuits I didn't want/need. That hardened gel GM used at the bulkhead connector was a particular PITA. I used a heat gun to soften it and scraped it all off with a utility knife. As I recall, the circuits/sensors I left in place were: O2 sensor, CTS, knock sensor, IAC, IAT, TPS, oil pressure, TCC, VSS and A/C.

I called up Brian at tbichips.com and had him custom burn me a chip for my 6965 (the same ECM you've got). I told him exactly what I was keeping and eliminating (smog stuff, mostly) and he burned me a chip with a little hotter than stock specs but I already had "cop car," specs to begin with so he cautioned me it wouldn't be a huge performance gain. But, then again, even the 9C1 police optioned Caprices were only factory rated at 205 hp!

I re-loomed everything I had left with a Summit wire loom kit (pretty cheap and looks great) then fabbed my own (probably not weatherproof) bulkhead seal. When I'm all finished, I'll probably silicone over the wires passing through the bulkhead.


So, if you don't mind since you seem to have expert advise, I'd like to ask what is the function of the VSS module located in the dash cluster in about the center of the Caprice? That's something I didn't realize was there until after I'd gotten rid of the car and one of the wires coming off the VSS is supposed to connect to it. Did it have anything to do with cruise control? Does it serve an important function and do I need to go source one from a JY or can I eliminate that wire? As I recall, there were 3 wires coming off that VSS and the other two are connected to their proper places.

Finally, my old fuse panel only has about 8 or 9 glass fuses and one spade terminal for an unfused ignition hot source. Oh, and one or two spade terminals for constant battery power. I've already wired 3 different EFI-related circuits (with correct-amperage in-line fuses) to these terminals and I still have a couple more circuits that require ignition-hot voltage. Is there a clean way to build a separate fuse panel or buss bar that provides ignition-hot voltage? Maybe a supplemental fuse panel or something? I've checked vendors who specialize in hot rod electrical and haven't found what I'm looking for.

Sounds like you have got your swap pretty well completed. I would love to see some pics of how you did yours. The biggest single regret I have is, not re-doing the harness, mostly because of fear of screwing up everything.(wiring is my weakest area of work). The fact is I ended up with a bunch of extra wires that won't be used. I still need to figure out how to mount the ecm like the 87 and up trucks hopefully.
BTW, what are the 3 circuits you fused ?I only had 2 if I remember right, well the fuel pump had one already with the donor harness. I would do like Cableguy suggested and snag an under hood buss and relay center from pull a part or similar. Let me know if you find a way to replace the air pump.

I still lack the speedo (autometer sounds awesome if you have $$$$$), the A/C, Park/N switch. We installed new shocks on the front tonight. New brakes tomorrow. We are looking for some economical wheels and tires. It is almost safe to drive! Here is the build up cost for anyone interested:
Truck $600
Donor $300
Exhaust gasket bolts $50
Fuel Pump $155
Fuel Pump install kit $20
Fuel Filter $10
Fuel lines $25
F/I clamps $8
U-Joint Clamps $5
Tranny mount $17
High pressure P/S line $18
Oil Change $18
Misc.? $50
Front Shocks $53
Valve Covers $50
Valve Cover Gaskets $18
Rear Shocks $47
Brakes $55
Stereo $100
Primer/ Body supplies $150
Paint kit prep supplies $160
More Paint Stuff $40
Wheels $689
A/C Parts $87
Side Molding $85
Tires $479
Tire install $60

Total $3370
Hauled off the Donor to scrap $145
New Total $3225

[grayharville]

great writeup! i plan on doing a TBI swap into my 70 one day, and i plan on using your thread as a guide, theres alot of helpful, straightforward info here.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by grayharville

great writeup! i plan on doing a TBI swap into my 70 one day, and i plan on using your thread as a guide, theres alot of helpful, straightforward info here.

Thanks! I really couldn't, and probably wouldn't have done this swap without help from the guys on this board.

Here is an update:
My son and I went to the local Pull a part in OKC Saturday. Wow! we made the mistake going late afternoon. There must have been 200 guys out there pulling parts. I was really looking for an electrically driven speedo/cluster. No luck, just about every cluster I found had been destroyed by losers that don't have a clue how to pull parts. It looked like they had taken a hammer to them. Anyway, I did pick up the ECM bracket from a 87 up burb, some door lock/ window switches and a breather base so we can add a chrome breather (all for $12). I did have to cut the angled lip off the back side for the bracket to mount flush (I guess the sheetmetal is a little different). I now have the ecm mounted where it looks just like a factory job. Here are the pics of the parts and install:

[89muscletruck]

Nice build this is really cool!

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by grayharville

great writeup! i plan on doing a TBI swap into my 70 one day, and i plan on using your thread as a guide, theres alot of helpful, straightforward info here.

Originally Posted by 89muscletruck

Nice build this is really cool!

Thanks guys! I learned a bunch from the guys here on the board. I am confident I would do this swap again but, I have moved right into LSx engine for his 69 project.
I am going to keep going on this truck too. We are talking about painting it, Personally, I like the original paint and rallys.....I guess I'm old school.

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Great writeup. I'm thinking of starting something similar. I have a 92 tbi motor and 4L80E trans out of a dually. I originally was gonna swap the tbi to carb and install a HEI (then I'd have to get a different trans too) but I see where a lot of you are doing the harness and tbi install. I have the complete donor truck and so far I've unhooked the harness from under the hood and taken the ECM out. I have no idea what I'm doing though. I'm completely old school. I don't see mention of how to actually get power to the ECM. I know there are a few guys who will re-work harnesses for the LS swaps so that you only have to hook up three wires when you get it back. You didn't use the complete donor car's harness from under the dash and all did you? This is like an electrician's nightmare to me.

[menace121978]

WOW! great write up, info, and build! awesome job Mike!! looks real good under the hood buddy!!