Can i mount bag further forward on the trailing arms?

[jmlcolorado]

Folks,
Im building a a bagged c10 with an international body on it. I was sitting in the garage tonight staring at it and thinking of how to get a touch more lift out of the rear. I have my re6's mounted in the factory spring location on the trailing arms now and the lift is good, but i was thinking of mounting them further up on the arms. Building brackets on the inside of the frame and mount it 1/2 way up the length. This would give me about 1 1/2 x lift and help make a better ride right?

Anyone have any pictures of this type of setup? Or any experience in this location?

I'd like to keep the lowered height, just gain a bit of ride height.

Photos below:
1) current bag location (for those of you that cant tell from a picture )
2) 2x4 represents proposed bag location.
3) overall truck

[67c10rustbuket]

I really don't see any reason you couldn't as long as it doesn't rub the frame . Only thing I can think of is your lower bag mount will need to be elevated off of the trailing arm since there is not a hole in the c-arm. But I'm the kinda guy that says you can do anything if you try hard enough. That's one heck of a "z" did you just put the rear frame on top of the cut front frame ?
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[jmlcolorado]

Originally Posted by 67c10rustbuket

I really don't see any reason you couldn't as long as it doesn't rub the frame . Only thing I can think of is your lower bag mount will need to be elevated off of the trailing arm since there is not a hole in the c-arm. But I'm the kinda guy that says you can do anything if you try hard enough. That's one heck of a "z" did you just put the rear frame on top of the cut front frame ?
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I was thinking of rotating the bags to utilize the outer holes. I would probably install 1/2" pipe from the top to bottom of the I beam and run a long bolt through each side into the bag. Just to tie it all together.

The zee is pretty big. Bigger then 99% of the guys do in here, but that's only cause im not using a stock bed or frame. It's only purpose was to drop the cab as low as i could and raise up the engine.

Heres a before and after frame zee to better show why it was needed.

[jmlcolorado]

Well as i got to looking at it more, i noticed 2 potential problems.

1) The last 5' of frame would be cantilevered and totally unsupported. As i am building this truck to use as a truck and actually haul stuff, mainly motorcycles, it seems unwise to let that much hang out as i would load up 1000 lbs + of weight in the back. I would want that supported.

2) The trailing arms get narrower the further forward you move. This means they would loose some strength in the center portions if you install springs there. you'd be changing the load point. Where the factory spring is now, its close to the axle so its much stronger towards the ends of the arms.

This doesn't mean i don't want ideas or input from other folks who might have tried this

[Brettd85]

You also change the spring rate and load capability because the lever arm on the bags is shorter. I would lean more towards building up some spacers for the bags. As for the Z frame, I would weld a supporting plate.

[jmlcolorado]

Originally Posted by Brettd85

You also change the spring rate and load capability because the lever arm on the bags is shorter. I would lean more towards building up some spacers for the bags. As for the Z frame, I would weld a supporting plate.

Yeah, frame is no where near done. I need a trans and drive shaft to finish the drive train. Once those are in, i will have to rebuild the center trailing arm support to raise the pinion angle a bit before adding shims.
Fish plates and alot of tubular cross bracing will be installed to eliminate the flex. Right now there is only 3 cross members installed so it flexes like crazy!

[LOW69C20]

I moved mine midway between rear diff and the cab, no problems so far. But not sure about weight capacity as I was not planning on hauling anything. Check out my build for pictures.
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[LOW69C20]

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t...0724-01108.jpg
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[jmlcolorado]

Originally Posted by LOW69C20

I moved mine midway between rear diff and the cab, no problems so far. But not sure about weight capacity as I was not planning on hauling anything. Check out my build for pictures.
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Yeah that's what im thinkin!
I think it would work fine to hold just bed weight but to have that much of the frame cantilevered over the axle, im not sure of its capabilities to hold weight.

Can you put all your fat friends in the back and have them jump up and down to see if the frame flexes?!

[jimmydean]

If you do the notch right, it should hold just fine for motorcycles. I would go with a beefy notch like the bolt on Porterbuilt.

[6772owner]

What about just a spacer on top of the bag to gain lift? Would it not allow you to drop far enough? Just a thought from looking at it... or maybe a taller air bag?

[67c10rustbuket]

how about a rear cantilever kit like this one from KP
http://www.cachassisworks.com/Attach..._WEB_10-13.pdf
, i know SD makes one but their site is under construction right this second, also airbaggit.com and exstensive metalworks. I think that would be the way to go to ensure proper load capacity and not tweaking your frame with all that weight hanging 5' off the rear of the bags and up to 12" or rear lift should make youe happy. Im not saying you should buy one of these $$$$$ kits just that the rear part is pretty simple and you obviously have some fab skills so you might be able to design and build one similar yourself.


I like that crossmember LOW69C20 ! nice work.

[67c10rustbuket]

Scroll to the bottom of the KP link to see the cantilever part im suggesting you make your self. just pretty much a leafspring hanger, bag mount, rod, and "dog bone". The yellow kit is for a C10.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 67c10rustbuket

Scroll to the bottom of the KP link to see the cantilever part im suggesting you make your self. just pretty much a leafspring hanger, bag mount, rod, and "dog bone". The yellow kit is for a C10.

KP's 6-link Cantilever set-up is not recommended for hauling/towing (I called & asked).

[kev2809]

i had initially planned on moving mine there too but was told that the bags will twist the trailing arm over time. so i moved them to over axle..

there is a few trucks on here that run it that ive seen, so maybe its working for them.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by kev2809

i had initially planned on moving mine there too but was told that the bags will twist the trailing arm over time. so i moved them to over axle..

there is a few trucks on here that run it that ive seen, so maybe its working for them.

I remember you wanted to mount yours off-center (off the side of the T/A), correct? If the bags are centered on the T/A's, they won't have a twisting issue. Move them off center, they will.

[kev2809]

yup...this is what i was thinking..



i think if he mounts them dead in the middle like the stock spring...maybe box the trailing arm some and run small beads in the middle where they meet, it should be ok. sounds like overkill, but better to overdo it than to have something go wrong.

[67c10rustbuket]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

KP's 6-link Cantilever set-up is not recommended for hauling/towing (I called & asked).

Good to know but I wonder if they just say that for liability issues ? so they wont get sued if something breaks when towing.
It seems that over the axle or stock spring location would be the strongest for load carrying but i would think one of the rear cantilever kits could handle a little towing and hauling , not a dump trailer full or gravel of course but average hauling and towing man toys around.
What about some of those triple bags like airbaggit.com sells used in the stock spring location. I havent seen any in action before have you scotti ? . it would be nice if there were a double convoluted air bag that would squish to typical 3" and expand to 15" (dreaming). I have always used firestone bags, used some airbaggit 2500 on the front of an S10 once but they felt thin and wimpy compared to a firestone. but that was about 10 years ago when airbaggit first stared making their bags maybe they are better now ?

[67c10rustbuket]

Originally Posted by jmlcolorado

Can you put all your fat friends in the back and have them jump up and down to see if the frame flexes?!

X2

[kev2809]

i wouldnt want to consider airbagit.com, they get a lot of negative feedback.

there was actually a member on here who z'd his frame in the rear and ran triple conv. bags but it never seen the road...i cant think of the guys name now....

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by 67c10rustbuket

Good to know but I wonder if they just say that for liability issues ? so they wont get sued if something breaks when towing.
It seems that over the axle or stock spring location would be the strongest for load carrying but i would think one of the rear cantilever kits could handle a little towing and hauling , not a dump trailer full or gravel of course but average hauling and towing man toys around.
What about some of those triple bags like airbaggit.com sells used in the stock spring location. I havent seen any in action before have you scotti ? . it would be nice if there were a double convoluted air bag that would squish to typical 3" and expand to 15" (dreaming). I have always used firestone bags, used some airbaggit 2500 on the front of an S10 once but they felt thin and wimpy compared to a firestone. but that was about 10 years ago when airbaggit first stared making their bags maybe they are better now ?

Not sure concerning the liability.... They said they wouldn't recommend their 6-link for anything beyond a cruiser/sport-truck.

[kieth]

fI do not think you will have any problems moving the bags back that amount, the trailing arms are plenty strong, the original bags on the 66 c10 with coils were not over the axle they were in front of the axle. You could also use a piece of channel full width over the top of the frame and this would also act like a crossmember. If you are really concerned with frame strength due to your z install a full inner frame of the same or heavier material, then box it, you will not have any strength issues bolt everything you can, then weld in the the box.......if you ever look at a coca cola delivery truck (the old fashioned kind) this is how they got the drop frame to allow more cube in the truck body. It will not fail if done properly. Kieth

[kieth]

Here is a design that does just that, the bags are more forward......


http://*******************/4-link-kit...er-lift-system

I like this set up, it leaves the center of the frame clearer for exhaust..

What do you guys think ?

[67c10rustbuket]

Originally Posted by kev2809

i wouldnt want to consider airbagit.com, they get a lot of negative feedback.

Yeah i'm familiar with airbagit's problems. I outfitted my first bagged truck with their stuff 11 years ago, before they made their own bags. had lots o problems and installed a set of their bags in someone elses truck once they started making them. wasn't too happy with them they were flimsy and only lasted a few months before the center band started to unravel and poked through the bag. I was just wondering if they had started making better quality parts since i used them. Giving them the benefit of the doubt. I stick with firestone bags, viair compressors, and SMC valves as a good reliable basic setup. Coolcars.org has some good air management kits with these parts at a good price, I used their kit on an S10 last year. later

[67c10rustbuket]

PS love the truck and progress jmlcolorado ! keep it up