700r4 Downshifting Question

[smpoulin01]

Does anyone know how I can change the downshift points on my 700r4? When I am driving at 20-25 mph in 2nd gear, and stomp the gas, my 700r4 does not drop into 1st gear unless i do it manually. Same for dropping into 2nd gear when I am in 3rd. I have taken it to a trans shop and they have said the TV cable was properly adjusted.

Any thoughts?

Thank you.

[truckster]

Clinebarger is the expert on all things transmission-related. If he doesn't post in the next day or so I'd send him a PM.

[smpoulin01]

Will do. Thanks

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by smpoulin01

Does anyone know how I can change the downshift points on my 700r4? When I am driving at 20-25 mph in 2nd gear, and stomp the gas, my 700r4 does not drop into 1st gear unless i do it manually. Same for dropping into 2nd gear when I am in 3rd. I have taken it to a trans shop and they have said the TV cable was properly adjusted.

Any thoughts?

Thank you.

Any information about the trans?
Is it stock to the truck?

I generally WILL NOT tune a 700R4 without installing a Trans-Go SK 700-JR first, A weak TV Spring &/or a weak Line Bias Spring will kick your a$$.
A broken/weak TV Limit Spring can also cause issues.

If your trans already has the TV spring blue printed, New line bias valve spring installed & the TV Cable really is set correctly......Changing the Governor itself or tuning your existing Governor with different "lighter" Governor Springs & weights is the next step in the tuning process.

A TH350 Governor works well in a lot of 700R4's. A "light weight" governor from a Vette/Camaro/Trans Am is the next step up.
B&M & TCI sell Governor calibration kits.....When using a kit, Get your WOT 1-2 shift where you want it (4,500? 5,500?).....Then see where your low speed detents are.
What RPM does the WOT 1-2 shift happen now?

[smpoulin01]

[quote=clinebarger;7956390]Any information about the trans?
Is it stock to the truck? - It is not stock to the truck, it came out of another truck and was rebuilt for my truck.

I generally WILL NOT tune a 700R4 without installing a Trans-Go SK 700-JR first, A weak TV Spring &/or a weak Line Bias Spring will kick your a$$.
A broken/weak TV Limit Spring can also cause issues. - The TV spring installed came with my Bowtie Overdrive kit but had to remove the "cam" and go to a stock tv cable due to a carb change.

If your trans already has the TV spring blue printed, New line bias valve spring installed & the TV Cable really is set correctly......Changing the Governor itself or tuning your existing Governor with different "lighter" Governor Springs & weights is the next step in the tuning process.

A TH350 Governor works well in a lot of 700R4's. A "light weight" governor from a Vette/Camaro/Trans Am is the next step up.
B&M & TCI sell Governor calibration kits.....When using a kit, Get your WOT 1-2 shift where you want it (4,500? 5,500?).....Then see where your low speed detents are.
What RPM does the WOT 1-2 shift happen now? - About 4800 now and is pretty violent/really barks the tires at wot.

[clinebarger]

Can your engine handle 5,500-5,800 rpm? The more you lower the Governor Pressure via lighter spring & weights....The easier it will be to force automatic detents.

Governor modifications is going to be the easiest for you to do.
Changing the Shift Valve TV Spring weights is sometimes required to get a 700R4 absolutely perfect, But......Probably more time & effort than most folks are willing to do.

[smpoulin01]

Yes, it would. I have a new carb that I would be able to reinstall the BTO kit back on' would that make any difference before I start changing the governor?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by smpoulin01

Yes, it would. I have a new carb that I would be able to reinstall the BTO kit back on' would that make any difference before I start changing the governor?

Did it act right with the BTO arm/cam on the carb?

The BTO TV spring is designed for their geometry corrector, (A little long in my opinion, But that is a discussion for another time).

There is only ONE correct TV setting at WOT......Cable pulled all the way!

[smpoulin01]

It seemed to be a bit better with the kit installed but didn't have it on very long before the carb started having issues. Any tips on where I should start with the governor changes?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by smpoulin01

Any tips on where I should start with the governor changes?

No, Every transmission & vehicle is different. I don't but kits & usually don't start with a standard V8 700R4 Governor anyway.

[smpoulin01]

Thank you for the help, I really appreciate it.

[smpoulin01]

Clinebarger,
I reinstalled the BTO kit and the downshifting is improved, still needs some adjusting. Mt WOT shifting is at about 4200. Any suggestions on where to start with the governor? should I try one out of a Camaro?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by smpoulin01

Clinebarger,
I reinstalled the BTO kit and the downshifting is improved, still needs some adjusting. Mt WOT shifting is at about 4200. Any suggestions on where to start with the governor? should I try one out of a Camaro?

That would probably get you pretty close, You will need one from a V8 Camaro, Trans Am, Or Corvette. The weights are "diamond" shaped.

[smpoulin01]

Thank you, I appreciate the help.

[smpoulin01]

I changed the govenor, now it shifts @ 5500 rpm, the upshifts are good through 3rd gear, and downshifts are better than they were before the change. The problem I have is now it will not shift into 4th until somewhere after 58 mph. I added a picture of the govenor I took out with notes as to what is different from the one I installed. Where do I start making changes for the 4th gear shift point?
Thanks in advance.

[clinebarger]

Governor changes do not effect just one ratio change, If you have the 1-2 & 2-3 just the way you want them.......

Remove the 3-4 TV Bushing, 3-4 TV Spring, & 3-4 TV Valve from the Valve Body, Cut ONE coil off the spring at a time 'til it the 3-4 shift is where you want it.

If the previous builder didn't install the Bushing roll pins from the bottom of the valve body, You will have to pull the valve body & install all the roll pins the other way, Check out the 700R4 build thread sticky......Post in the 120's are what your after.

[smpoulin01]

Thank you Clinebarger. One question though, the 3rd - 4th gear change was good until I changed the governor. Would it be prudent to make some changes to my original governor and re-install it? Could something possibly be changed/not right with the governor I used? I got it used from the shop that built my transmission.

[smpoulin01]

I also tried this governor but the WOT shift points were higher than 6200 rpm and I wasn't prepared to find out where they actually were. Under part throttle, shifts appeared to be fine.

[kaycee]

Did you adjust the cam from your Bowtie kit? I't took me awhile to get mine fine tuned but man does it shift great now.

[smpoulin01]

I did, was shifting good but way to soon (4200) so I wanted to raise the wot shift point. I have ordered the B&M kit and will start adjusting my original governor and see what happens next.

[kaycee]

Does it shift at 4200 at wot or crusie ??HMMM that's what mine did and my trans guy said to tighten the cable 1 click at a time. I did and it has been working for me , I'm no trans. guy I know it was a PITA to dial in, I did score a Z-28 gov. but never put it in, . GOOD Luck
Just re-read your 1st post if I was running 2nd gear and it shifted into 1st at WOT I might kiss the windshield don't think you want that would he Clinebanger

[smpoulin01]

Originally Posted by kaycee

Does it shift at 4200 at wot or crusie ??HMMM that's what mine did and my trans guy said to tighten the cable 1 click at a time. I did and it has been working for me , I'm no trans. guy I know it was a PITA to dial in, I did score a Z-28 gov. but never put it in, . GOOD Luck
Just re-read your 1st post if I was running 2nd gear and it shifted into 1st at WOT I might kiss the windshield don't think you want that would he Clinebanger

4200 was @ wot (post #12), original post was trying to ask how to get a downshift from 2nd to 1st (akin to passing gear) at lower speed. My original 1-2 shift was at about 18 mph and would not drop from 2nd into 1st in a full throttle slow speed condition (20-25 mph). Wouldn't kiss the windshield, that would be more of an engine brake condition. Might hit the back glass though! My cable has been properly adjusted (checked with pressure gauge) and won't change the wot shift points but can fine tune the part-throttle points with the BTO cam adjustment.

The governor I installed was from my tranny shops "bucket-o-parts" and no one knows it's history.

Believe I will play with my original governor, the shift speeds were good, just need to change the wot shifts. Uncharted territory for me, not a trans wizard either.

Thanks for the help.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by smpoulin01

Thank you Clinebarger. One question though, the 3rd - 4th gear change was good until I changed the governor. Would it be prudent to make some changes to my original governor and re-install it? Could something possibly be changed/not right with the governor I used? I got it used from the shop that built my transmission.

If the 1-2 & 2-3 are just the way you want.....Your 90% there!!!!

ALL three shift valves have Governor Pressure applied to them, ANY governor changes will effect all three shift points.

This is the way I see it.......Your 1-2 & 2-3 upshifts were early & the 3-4 was just right. You made the 1-2 & 2-3 just right by lowering the Governor Pressure for a given speed. The lower governor pressure effected the 3-4 shift timing at part throttle....Which is normal given that governor pressure affects all three shift valves.

You can change the spring weights to spread the shifts (Lighter) Or tighten them up (Heavier)......But this tuning window is very narrow & I highly doubt it will correct your late 3-4 shift without adverse effects on the 1-2 & 2-3.

The factory shift calibrations on most 700R4's are $hit for performance vehicles & using a Shift Kit like the Green Box SK-700 is a shot in the dark because the different size "Spools" on the TV Shift Valves.

I highly recommend tuning the 3-4 TV Valve Spring to bring it inline with the others.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by kaycee

Just re-read your 1st post if I was running 2nd gear and it shifted into 1st at WOT I might kiss the windshield don't think you want that would he Clinebanger

Automatic detents do not cause engine braking like manually shifting from L2 to L1.

[smpoulin01]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Governor changes do not effect just one ratio change, If you have the 1-2 & 2-3 just the way you want them.......

Remove the 3-4 TV Bushing, 3-4 TV Spring, & 3-4 TV Valve from the Valve Body, Cut ONE coil off the spring at a time 'til it the 3-4 shift is where you want it.

If the previous builder didn't install the Bushing roll pins from the bottom of the valve body, You will have to pull the valve body & install all the roll pins the other way, Check out the 700R4 build thread sticky......Post in the 120's are what your after.

Clinebarger,
That would be post #127, correct?