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Old 02-23-2005, 01:36 AM   #1
gconn77
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1984 Chevy C-10 With A 305 Motor - Vacuum Hoses and PCV Questions

I purchased an 84 Custom Deluxe with a 305. I don't know anything about its history; however, the motor is running good. I does have a few problems though that I would like to take care of. For now I would like to take the problems one at a time. I will post other problems later.

It seems that a lot of the smaller rubber hoses are all capped off. Also the charcoal canister on the lower right hand side in the engine compartment has all the empty spots where rubber tubes should be connected.

Basically I just want to get all these hoses connected back to where they are supposed to go. There is one hose behind the carb. There are two or three hoses in front/under the carb.

Also the air cleaner has a place where a hose should be connected, and also the damper that opens/closes which allows or blocks fresh air into the air cleaner does not close... I was reading that this is supposed to close when the engine starts in cold weather to help warm the engine up.

The engine runs really rough when first starting... but once it is warmed up it will idle and run forever...

Engine get horrible gas milage... 5 -7 miles per gallon.... calculations were not based off using the gas guage... I filled the tank, recorded how many gallons I purchased, and noted the milage... drove interstate at 65 miles per hour for 30 miles and then turned around and drove back, topped off the tank and noted how many gallons purchased, and then did the math.

I would love to get all the rubber hoses connected to their proper places... Haynes and Chiltons do not help me... very confusing.

Last edited by gconn77; 03-06-2005 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Spell Words Correctly in Title
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Old 02-23-2005, 07:13 AM   #2
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Good luck.

The best thing would be to find a similar truck nearby and just copy the way the lines are run.

I have an 85 with a 305 with only one vacuum line capped off, and I can't figure out where it goes at all...
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Old 02-23-2005, 08:14 AM   #3
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I'm sure someone on this board has a pic of an 84 vacuum route. You can look at my 79 pic to get started. It should at least let you see how to hook up the canister. The air cleaner will have one vacuum hose going to the temp sensor and one from the temp sensor to the air diverter. Also a large hose coming from the pass. side valve cover up to the housing, plus a heat stove pipe up to the bottom of the air diverter door. Hope this helps. Welcome aboard.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:09 PM   #4
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Added Photos and More Information Regarding The Problem

I create a webpage that has all the photos and information about my problem. I did not want to load up the photos here and bog the message board down. However, I will post small thumbnail pics here. If you could please take a moment to click over to my page that has the full size photos.
The page I created is located at 84 Chevy C/10 Custom Deluxe.

PHOTO #6

This is a photo of the Charcoal Canister. Please click the photo or CLICK HERE to view the full size photo. The very bottom has the PCV. There is a bigger connection on the bottom of the post and a smaller connection above this. *The PCV is located on the right hand side valve cover. It is in good condition. It is connected directly to the carb. (See photo #9). Also looking at photo #10, there is some kind of splitter at the PCV. One rubber tube should come from the carb to the PCV, and then the rubber tube appears that is should then go from the PCV to the canister.

PHOTO #8

This is a photo of the Air Cleaner. Please click the photo or CLICK HERE to view the full size photo. In the air cleaner, located on the inside of the air filter, is the Thermatic air cleaner sensor. From what I read (Haynes), this sensor controls the damper in the snorker of the air cleaner. The problem is the damper is always open. I can reach in there and move the damper closed with my thumb, but the minute I let go, it returns to the open position. Cold weather and cold start engine, same problem. I belive that the Thermatic air cleaner sensor is bad.
Additionally, there is a capped rubber hose that is mounted to the bottom of the air cleaner. I would like to know where this is supposed to be connected to.

Lastly, there is a metal piece (I believe is the thermostat for the engine collant). There are three post that look like rubber tubes could be connected to them. Testing though resulted in no suction or liquid coming from these three posts.

PHOTO #9

This is a photo of the Carb. Please click the photo or CLICK HERE to view the full size photo. After removing the air cleaner, you can easily see four capped off rubber lines. I would really like to know where these all need to go. Removing the caps from any of these lines has no effect on the motor except for the bigger rubber hose with the larger bolt stuck in it acting as a cap. When I remove the cap on this rubber line, a huge amount of air is sucked into the tube and the moter very quickly stalls.

PHOTO #10

This is a photo of the VECI Label. Please click the photo or CLICK HERE to view the full size photo. This is an actual image of my Vehicle Emissions Control Information (VECI) Label.

Hopefully with this added information and photos you guys can help me get all of these hoses re-connected back to where they belong. I appreciate everyone's help as well as interest in this problem.

Regards,
Garry
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:47 PM   #5
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I have the same sticker on my radiator support, but it is all gibberish.

The acronyms don't match up to what they should be...stupid GM.
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:55 PM   #6
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Is there anyway you can take some photos of your engine and carb area so that I can compare to my engine... You said all your hoses are connected minus one... can you tell me where all of yours are going and hopefully illustrate with photos?
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Old 02-23-2005, 05:01 PM   #7
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It would be easier to email them to you if you want them soon. PM me your email address, I already have some pics taken.
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Old 02-23-2005, 05:04 PM   #8
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Ok... PM sent!
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:40 AM   #9
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Ok.. I really appreciate your help.. but I am having a lot of trouble understanding. If you could, please review this new set of photos... What I have now done to make things simpler is label each of the capped hoses with a reference number. Please view the following photos over again below... you will see each reference number I have assigned to each capped line... If you guys would simply help me connect the dots!! LOL... I.E. Connect ref #01 to ref #05.... or another example: Vacuum Tee ref #01 and ref #06 and then run new vacuum line and connect to ref #07... If you guys could do that for me, that would be great! Here are the new sets of photos below:




Again, I really appreciate your help with helping me solve this problem.

Regards,
Garry
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Old 02-24-2005, 02:47 AM   #10
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I can see that your electric choke is disconnected. It's the grey plug, attached to the light blue wire. The pcv hose (wheel stud plugging it), think you marked as rev.12. should go to pcv valve. BTW, that pcv valve looks incorrect. Probably would be a 2 port, like the one in your hose routing photo. The port that is presently attached to the pcv goes to the charcoal cannister. Which looks like the black/white stripped line, as in your emission hose routing photo.

***Your 05 to B in the photo below. Your 03 to A in photo below. Your 12 to B. Connect C to D. Actually all the different windows that have to be opened up, made helping a lot more difficult. I'll look again later.
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Old 02-24-2005, 10:51 AM   #11
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Sorry about making the images load in seperate windows. I was concerned that putting all the images directly in the post would slow things down. In that case I have added more photos that show different angles of the motor. Please review them below:

Photo #1:


Photo #2:


Photo #3:


Photo #4:


Photo #5:


Photo #6:


Photo #7:


Photo #8:


Photo #9:


Hopefully adding the photos directly to the post will help keep things in order and easier for you guys to help me.

Best Regards,
Garry
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:34 AM   #12
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That's not an EGR intake, probably swapped. Might not even be the original motor. No air pump or the A.I.R. tubes exhaust manifolds? Looks like someone randomly started to remove emissions, not knowing what they were doing. Depending on where you live and your emissions laws, it might be easier to just hook up the vacuum the motor needs and plug everything else. Probably forget about the EGR, charcoal cannister, pump, etc. Not sure it will be cost effective, unless you can't get it to pass inspection. That's a decision you'll have to make, before everyone chimes in to what is not hooked up correctly.

Also normally the primary butterfly should have some tension on it, when cold and/or when the (+) wire isn't connected to it. Your's is open in the picture. I see someone already fooled with the choke, by rivets drilled and replaced by screws. Then there's the tie wrap near the choke linkage and choke break, which shouldn't be there. Might be there because possibly this motor didn't have the correct oil pressure sending switch, to operate the choke. Hard to tell by pics, but looks the tranny detent isn't hooked up either.

below is an altered hose routing, minus what you don't have. You can probably ignore the distributor and leave the manifold "T" to the rear of your carb, connections (#13) alone. You probably don't have the check valve but a straight run of hose there is fine. You probably don't have the trc solenoid, the port is already plugged at your number 11. Your 10 would go to TV5 on air cleaner. Connect pcv to your number 12. Plug or cap the rest. Then see how it runs.
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:15 PM   #13
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Go to
http://www.autozone.com/
Repair Info
----Repair Guides
--------Driveability and Emissions Controls
------------Vacuum Diagrams
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Old 02-24-2005, 01:11 PM   #14
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I just had to say that the website created for this thread is pretty awesome for beginners. It sure would be useful if you could post pictures of the solutions after you have connected and resolved all of your problems.

I know I'd like to be sure that everything is hooked up properly.

Thanks,

Gil.
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Old 02-24-2005, 01:55 PM   #15
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Hey Dano, been to the Autozone site 1000 times, never got into that section. A lot of good info there.

Garry, first off, welcome to the board. Have to agree with John on deciding what you NEED in your area. If you are somewhere that does emission testing for inspection, you're in for some serious work, it's all gotta go back like it is on that sticker, and that motor isn't set up to accept all those parts. My guess is that the engine has been replaced with an older one. Your intake manifold not only doesn't have a place for an EGR, but also doesn't have a place for the second four port thermal vacuum switch (one of the devices on your schematic) which would be a threaded hole in the intake near the water inlet. Your exhaust manifolds don't have the tubes for the A.I.R. system, there's no A.I.R. pump, no deceleration valve. A lot of what's associated with the canister vacuum lines is not even on your motor. Even with the right motor in there, it's a BIG job to resore all that, GM doesn't make some of that stuff anymore. It can be done, but it turns into months of research and parts chasing and junkyard digging. Just did all that, we have emissions tests here.

Looking at that diagram under your hood, all those ports on the carb that are designated with letters like FJBLTH are shown roughly where they actually are on the carb. The carb even has those letters embossed and/or stamped into the metal, but some you can't see unless you have the carb in your hands.

With any luck, you live where all they do is basic inspection, in which case all you need to worry about is the basic vacuum stuff needed to make it run right, like vacuum advance, the PCV portion of it. If that's the case, you will have a bunch of plugged and capped vacuum ports.

Guess you're looking at either restoring it to match that sticker, in which case you have a roadmap to work off of but an engine that won't support the parts and systems without changing the intake and exhaust manifolds (which incidentally may not pass emissions test anyway once finished if it's an old high milage engine), or forgetting all that and doing your own custom as needed vacuum routing if you can pass inspection without emissions test.

My sticker is an XDJ which is almost identical to yours, mine just has one more port on the canister with one more small hose to the air cleaner. Other than that, it's the same. Pics of mine would be helpful if you have to bring it back to emission standards, but if you don't have to go that route, then they would be useless.

Best of luck.
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Old 02-24-2005, 02:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badone07
I can see that your electric choke is disconnected. It's the grey plug, attached to the light blue wire. Connect C to D.
REFERENCE PHOTO #11: (View Reference #C and Reference #D)


Response To badone07's quote:

I tried connecting the plug (Reference #C) to the electric choke (Reference #D) and the plug does not match. The plug has two metal contacts and the plastic part of the plug does not apprear to be designed to plug into the electric choke. See REFERENCE PHOTO #12.

REFERENCE PHOTO #12 (View Reference #C and Reference #D)


I went ahead and stuck it on there to see what would happen. After doing this I did not notice any difference in the engine. Nothing changed. However, the only thing that I did notice was the oil pressure indicator on my instrument cluster lighted up. See REFERENCE PHOTO #12 and REFERENCE PHOTO #13.

REFERENCE PHOTO #12: (Oil Pressure Indicator Is Lighted Up after inserting the Plug (Reference #D) to the electric choke (Reference #C):


REFERENCE PHOTO #13: (Oil Pressure Indicator Is Not Lighted Up when I Remove The Plug (Reference #D) from the electric choke (Reference #C):


Please let me know what you think about my findings here. Again it would seem that these items should be hooked up, but it also seems that the plug is not the right plug for the electric carb.

Best Regards,
Garry
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Old 02-24-2005, 02:56 PM   #17
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My Purpose For This Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by badone07
Not sure it will be cost effective, unless you can't get it to pass inspection. That's a decision you'll have to make, before everyone chimes in to what is not hooked up correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckpaul
Garry, first off, welcome to the board. Have to agree with John on deciding what you NEED in your area. If you are somewhere that does emission testing for inspection, you're in for some serious work, it's all gotta go back like it is on that sticker, and that motor isn't set up to accept all those parts. My guess is that the engine has been replaced with an older one. Your intake manifold not only doesn't have a place for an EGR, but also doesn't have a place for the second four port thermal vacuum switch (one of the devices on your schematic) which would be a threaded hole in the intake near the water inlet. Your exhaust manifolds don't have the tubes for the A.I.R. system, there's no A.I.R. pump, no deceleration valve. A lot of what's associated with the canister vacuum lines is not even on your motor. Even with the right motor in there, it's a BIG job to resore all that, GM doesn't make some of that stuff anymore. It can be done, but it turns into months of research and parts chasing and junkyard digging. Just did all that, we have emissions tests here.
Hey guys, thanks for the warm welcome to the board. Very cool place to be! My purpose for this project was mainly due to the fact that I am very paticular about things being perfect. LOL! Secondly, the motor does seem to have some problems. I am located in Clarksville, TN. and in the county I live in I don't believe that there are any emission tests, so that is really NOT a concern (not trying to sound like I don't care about the enviroment).

The main issue with the motor is:
(1) It is an eye sore to see all of these hoses capped off.
(2) The trouble I am having with it.

The trouble is mainly in the morning when starting it. It is very hard to start, especially being somewhat cold here... (Not really all that cold, about 35 to 45 degrees F). Basically after baby'ing the motor for about five minutes, keeping my foot on the gas, and warming it up, it will then idle on its own without stalling. Once the motor is warm it will start very quickly, and very easily. Second to last problem is the gas milage. "I know trucks suck with gas milage" However, 5 miles to the gallon tells me that there is a problem. Last problem is the damper inside the snorkel does not close on its own when the engine is cold. (Please review Post #11, Picture #7, Reference #6).

This amazes me how much I am learning about this truck just by showing you guys the pictures... I now know that this is not the original motor. You are saying that you think that the motor currently in my truck is older than the original? I really appreciate you guys help with this project. Now after you guys know what my objective is... hopefully you all can better assist me. If those vacuum lines are not ever to be used... Then I would be interested in capping them off closer to their sources so that they are not an eye sore. Anyway, I look forward to your responses.

Best Regards,
Garry
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Old 02-24-2005, 03:30 PM   #18
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No problem Garry. Paul is correct and stated it probably better than me. I'm battling the flu since Sunday.

Instead of the hoses cut and stuffed with bolts or screws, you can go to just about any auto parts store and pickup some vacuum caps. There is a picture of them down below.

The hard starting is the choke. The intake manifold you have is for a divorced choke set up. No big deal since your carb has an electric choke. The carb is probably original to the truck. Not sure where you can buy the terminal for the choke's light blue wire. I had to grab one from a junkyard and splice it in. The choke element basically only goes on one way (held in by the 2 screws), which I labeled C. Some are notched (locked in place) and some can be turned rich or lean. I'm sure if you cut that tie wrap, your choke will close, like it should. I'm guessing whoever swapped motors, didn't swap the oil pressure switch from the old motor, on to this one.
Look towards the rear of the intake manifold, to the rt of the distributor...there should be a switch there. Only 1 spade on the terminal? (pic is down below of a typical oil pressure switch) I'm not sure what was in there originally, in spade number. You might have to go to parts store for the correct one or see if any of the wires have been "rigged" like the rest of the work done by the previous owner. I know I don't have the wire schematics on this laptop, but I did post them prior for someone else in any earlier thread.

You can do the vacuum lines like I posted in prior post. They are definitely wrong as they are now. Then you will have to deal with the choke, carb and possibly the timing. They may have screwed with them to keep it running.

I wouldn't cut that tie wrap just yet. You need to supply the choke element a constant 12volts with the light blue wire. Otherwise, it will stay closed and choke out the motor. It should start right up though. You need to figure out the oil switch first and connect the vacuum lines properly.
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2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's)
1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide)
1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400)
1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

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Old 02-24-2005, 03:47 PM   #19
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here's a choke schematic. Maybe someone can help with the switch and the terminal end. ***Also I would temporarily tape up the end of that light blue choke wire (+), so it doesn't short to the engine.
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1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually
1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4
2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's)
1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide)
1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400)
1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

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Old 02-24-2005, 04:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badone07
"Not sure where you can buy the terminal for the choke's light blue wire." and,
"I wouldn't cut that tie wrap just yet. You need to supply the choke element a constant 12volts with the light blue wire. Otherwise, it will stay closed and choke out the motor. It should start right up though. You need to figure out the oil switch first and connect the vacuum lines properly."
That blue wire once I connect it to the electric choke causes the oil pressure light to turn on in my instrument cluster. Are you sure that this is the correct wire to connect to the electric choke? If this is the correct wire to connect to the electric choke, then how come my oil pressure light turns on in my instrument cluster?

Wait a minute... after looking closer at the gauge in the instrument cluster... this is a shared gauge... meaning it will light up and if it does it could mean there is a problem with one of two things or both:

Oil Pressure and or
Electric Choke.

Let me know if this is correct?

Also, if this is the correct wire, then how come the choke light always remains on when this wire is connected? Is the reason because of the tie wrap around the choke?

I look forward to your response.
Regards,
Garry

Last edited by gconn77; 02-24-2005 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 02-24-2005, 05:07 PM   #21
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If you look, it seems that your oil pressure light doubles as the choke light. There is the oil pressure symbol on one side, and what looks like a butterfly valve on the other. Maybe plug that wire in, start the truck up, and let it run for a few minutes, see if it turns off?
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Old 02-24-2005, 06:19 PM   #22
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I'm 100% positive about the terminal, to the choke. Do you have a voltmeter or a test light? With the truck running check that light blue terminal lead and check it again while off. You don't want voltage there in any other ignition key position (ONLY running). If it's getting voltage while running, then the oil pressure switch MAYBE correct. I'm not sure if your truck's choke runs off a pressure switch to the rear of the intake or a pressure switch by the oil filter housing.

Like Russell said, is correct. I'm not sure how that tie wrap will effect things regarding the dash light or not. It's obviously holding the linkage open. I'm trying to go by memory because my present truck I converted from hot air to electric choke. Which is most recent to me.
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1984 C30 Chevy Crew Cab Dually
1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4
2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's)
1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide)
1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400)
1984 Monte SS (circle track car)

Last edited by badone07; 02-24-2005 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 02-24-2005, 10:10 PM   #23
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Revised Hose Routing Diagram

Ok... I have revised the hose routing diagram based off the information I have received on my problem. I have revised the diagram so that I can show you guys what I will be doing. Please review the diagram and give me the thumbs up... or tell me what I have done wrong. After you guys approve the diagram, I will then perform the work on the motor. I look forward to your comments.

Here is the OLD HOSE ROUTING DIAGRAM:


Here is the NEW REVISED HOSE ROUTING DIAGRAM:


I am hoping that I got it all right... if so, then I will be going to the store to purchase new vacuum hose, clamps, and caps. Hopefully this will be the first start towards cleaning the motor up a little.

Regards,
Garry
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Old 02-25-2005, 11:03 AM   #24
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Garry, you just don't have most of the components in your hose routing diagram. Unless you can hunt down all the components, it's a waste of time. Randomly, partially deleting components on the diagram won't mean a thing without them actually being there. Since you don't have any emissions, that's as clean as it will get with the vacuum lines. It's just a matter hooking up what you have to function propery and capping the rest of the unused vacuum sources. You also don't have to waste any caps on the air cleaner housing if you're not going to supply vacuum to it, like your diagram. You do not need hose clamps for vacuum lines. It's really not that complicated at all. Good luck with it.
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1998 Jeep Cherokee 4x4
2004 Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 (wife's)
1970 Mustang FB fully tubed (getting 521 BBF & powerglide)
1978 Nova 2dr (going BBCaddy & S.P. th400)
1984 Monte SS (circle track car)
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Old 02-26-2005, 11:07 PM   #25
gconn77
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Vacuum Hoses and PCV Valve Project COMPLETE!

Project complete!!! Here are two photos below. Motor is running much better. In fact it starts right up even when cold. I will test it one more time tomorrow morning after it sits all night. Anyway, thank you everyone for helping me. Tomorrow morning I am going to work on the electric choke. If I have any questions regarding the electric choke, I will probably start a new thread. This one is getting too big and I want to keep the content specific to the subject of Vacuum Hoses and PCV questions. Thanks again guys... excellent first impression of the website and members!

Best Regards,
Garry






Last edited by gconn77; 02-26-2005 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Adding Title
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