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Old 11-18-2009, 11:06 PM   #1
americanmusc1e
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5 lug rear-end swap

I think the 3.08 open diff rear on my truck just gave up.

I'm thinking about changing the whole rear-end out. I'd like to avoid a 10 bolt if possible.

What non-10 bolt rear ends are available with a chevy 5x5 lug pattern????

truck 12 bolts

car 12 bolts????

Dana 60?????

Ford 9"?????

I need something rather cheap, preferably available with 3.73 gears
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:34 AM   #2
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

If you want the cheapest, easiest swap, a '71-'72 12 bolt truck rear end will be your best bet. Get the matching suspension type (i.e. coil or leaf) and it will bolt in.

If you have the ability to weld, you can get any truck 12 bolt from '73-'87 that you can cut off the brackets from and weld on the correct style for yours. That is what I did, a '73 rear end and used ECE weld on perches and set it up like the factory rear end.

One thing to note, unless you have the more rare "wide" '70 rear end, the late year '70 and '71 and later are 1.5" wider then the early rear ends. If you have wheels size and offset setup for your current one, these new rear ends will put the wheels out .75" more on each side.

Other than full size (i.e. Impala) Chevy cars, most GM cars were 5 on 4.75" lug, not the truck pattern. Ford 9" I don't believe came in a 5 on 5. Don't know about Dana 60 but I think they are 6 or 8 lug only.

Good luck.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:27 PM   #3
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy_mike View Post
If you want the cheapest, easiest swap, a '71-'72 12 bolt truck rear end will be your best bet. Get the matching suspension type (i.e. coil or leaf) and it will bolt in.

If you have the ability to weld, you can get any truck 12 bolt from '73-'87 that you can cut off the brackets from and weld on the correct style for yours. That is what I did, a '73 rear end and used ECE weld on perches and set it up like the factory rear end.

One thing to note, unless you have the more rare "wide" '70 rear end, the late year '70 and '71 and later are 1.5" wider then the early rear ends. If you have wheels size and offset setup for your current one, these new rear ends will put the wheels out .75" more on each side.

Other than full size (i.e. Impala) Chevy cars, most GM cars were 5 on 4.75" lug, not the truck pattern. Ford 9" I don't believe came in a 5 on 5. Don't know about Dana 60 but I think they are 6 or 8 lug only.

Good luck.
so a 67-70 (with the exception of the 'wide 70') is 1.5" narrower?

12 bolts or 10 bolts or both?

what are the most common gear ratios?
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:36 PM   #4
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

there were no 10 bolt rears in these rigs.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:35 PM   #5
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

307 373 id guess...im in the same boat as you..found a 373 posi with everything but brakes for 375 obo in town..that a good deal? it is coil spring from under a 63 chevy
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:12 PM   #6
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

yea i think 3:08 and 3:73 are the most common ratios.

as far as if it's a good deal or not i'd be sure to take the cover off and make sure it's a limited-slip.

i've welded up a couple before but i've never seen a factory limited slip in a 1/2 ton truck.....it may be aftermarket.

actually i'm looking for one that is shorter than the factory rear by about 4-6 inches so i can use my 10" rallys with some 33x12-50's and tuck them.

maybe some other car or truck. i saw a swap kit on CCP's website with the weld-on mounting pads.

i know where to get a 3:73 12 bolt limited-slip from a 70-73 camaro. anybody know how wide these are?

i know it's gonna be a 5x4.75 pattern but i guess i could get 2 more rallys.

Last edited by cris well; 12-24-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:41 PM   #7
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Thumbs up Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy_mike View Post
If you want the cheapest, easiest swap, a '71-'72 12 bolt truck rear end will be your best bet. Get the matching suspension type (i.e. coil or leaf) and it will bolt in.

If you have the ability to weld, you can get any truck 12 bolt from '73-'87 that you can cut off the brackets from and weld on the correct style for yours. That is what I did, a '73 rear end and used ECE weld on perches and set it up like the factory rear end.

One thing to note, unless you have the more rare "wide" '70 rear end, the late year '70 and '71 and later are 1.5" wider then the early rear ends. If you have wheels size and offset setup for your current one, these new rear ends will put the wheels out .75" more on each side.

Other than full size (i.e. Impala) Chevy cars, most GM cars were 5 on 4.75" lug, not the truck pattern. Ford 9" I don't believe came in a 5 on 5. Don't know about Dana 60 but I think they are 6 or 8 lug only.

Good luck.

I am looking to swap my 6 lug 12 bolt with 4.11 gears out of my 68 chev 1/2 ton and was going to use either CPP or ECE's Rear End Conversion Kit but after talking to them they said this kit is only for lowered vehicles and I'm running stock height suspension.

Has anyone used these rear end conversion kits to swap in a 73-up 10 or 12 bolt or other axle into a 67-72 coil spring rear truck?

I understand the weld on perches from CPP or ECE's kit would work for the newer axle but what should be done with the panhard bar? Again, CPP or ECE said that the panhard bar in their kit is not right for the stock height suspension geometry.

Any thoughts or experience would be great and if I'm ever in your town I'll buy beers!

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:56 PM   #8
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

wuhh?

Why would it make a difference lowered or not, id like to hear more info on that...doesnt make sense, what do swapping axles have to do with lowered or not lol?
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:40 PM   #9
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

The Guys at ECE told me that their rear end conversion kit or deluxe track bar kit was for use only with lowered vehicles (ones that had been lowered 4 inches or more).
Apparently the geometry would change and the panhard bar in the kit is only meant or designed for lowered vehicles. I thought I would use this kit with a 1991 10 bolt I have (3.08 gears) and then I would be able to keep the rear end centered using their panhard bar from this kit that bolts to the passenger side rear trailing arm ( as the 1991 10 bolt does not have the stud on the top of the pumpkin for the stock panhard bar.).
So.......................i'm F - - - E D as of now because I don't know if I should buy the kit and do the swap or not based on what they told me.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:18 PM   #10
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

I used the ECE kit years ago. I did a 4 inch drop so I got the adjustable panhard bar, not the trackbar that attaches to the TA.

My memory is kind of fuzzy but I THINK that the panhard bar might attach to a different location with the shock relocator kit.

I would talk to them again about the panhard bar because I might be wrong. The track bar is only meant for drops of more than 4".

But if you're looking to get a 5 bolt lug out of an anything other than a 71-72 AND run stock height AND use coil springs, you would have to find some way attach the panhard bar.

Ok, now after writing all that out I see your problem. I've also heard others mention an axle swap or redrilling the axles for 5 lugs.
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:28 PM   #11
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

[QUOTE=swierker;4087905]I used the ECE kit years ago. I did a 4 inch drop so I got the adjustable panhard bar, not the trackbar that attaches to the TA.

My memory is kind of fuzzy but I THINK that the panhard bar might attach to a different location with the shock relocator kit.

I would talk to them again about the panhard bar because I might be wrong. The track bar is only meant for drops of more than 4".

But if you're looking to get a 5 bolt lug out of an anything other than a 71-72 AND run stock height AND use coil springs, you would have to find some way attach the panhard bar.

Ok, now after writing all that out I see your problem. I've also heard others mention an axle swap or redrilling the axles for 5 lugs.[/QUO

Track bar or panhard bar...........the same??

If I use the 1991 10 bolt, yes I will need a panhard bar and have to figure out a way to attach it. Everything else ( weld on perches etc.) will be easy.
I am running stock height rear coil springs.
So ECE said that their track bar kit / panhard bar is for lowered trucks only.
So if their kit doesn't work, I'm gonna need to find a way to attach the panhard bar as the 10 bolt doesn't have the stud for the stock panhard bar!
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:29 PM   #12
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by swierker View Post
I used the ECE kit years ago. I did a 4 inch drop so I got the adjustable panhard bar, not the trackbar that attaches to the TA.

My memory is kind of fuzzy but I THINK that the panhard bar might attach to a different location with the shock relocator kit.

I would talk to them again about the panhard bar because I might be wrong. The track bar is only meant for drops of more than 4".

But if you're looking to get a 5 bolt lug out of an anything other than a 71-72 AND run stock height AND use coil springs, you would have to find some way attach the panhard bar.

Ok, now after writing all that out I see your problem. I've also heard others mention an axle swap or redrilling the axles for 5 lugs.
In your axle swap with your 4 inch drop, what axle did you use?
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:24 PM   #13
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

That was on a 64 chevy truck that I did the swap but I think the parts are the same. It was the same coil spring rear end, I'm pretty sure the the rear was stock for the 64. I don't have the truck anymore so I can't verify.

The track bar and the panhard bar from ECE are not the same thing. The ECE track bar attaches to the trailing arm and their panhard bar attaches to the rearend in the stock location which I remember for sure.

I'm going to get the track bar for my 70 but I'm also doing a 6" drop.

I remember the panhard bar was adjustable so I'm not sure why it wouldn't work at the stock height. But you still would need a way to attach it the 91 rear.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:37 AM   #14
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

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That was on a 64 chevy truck that I did the swap but I think the parts are the same. It was the same coil spring rear end, I'm pretty sure the the rear was stock for the 64. I don't have the truck anymore so I can't verify.

The track bar and the panhard bar from ECE are not the same thing. The ECE track bar attaches to the trailing arm and their panhard bar attaches to the rearend in the stock location which I remember for sure.

I'm going to get the track bar for my 70 but I'm also doing a 6" drop.

I remember the panhard bar was adjustable so I'm not sure why it wouldn't work at the stock height. But you still would need a way to attach it the 91 rear.
Okay, so perhaps I need to check out the track bar they have? If I use the 1991 axle, I'd have to use the track bar (if it attaches to the trailing arm.).
This would give me a similar setup to stock.
Here is the ECE track bar kit.
THis is the kit they said was for lowered vehicles only.
If this is the case, then we are severely limited in terms of what axles we can use with the stock trailing arms and this limits our gear ratios too.
If not, then we are good. But I can't believe that this kit wouldn't allow me to run stock height suspension and a different axle.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:23 PM   #15
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

The panhard bar issue isn't rocket surgery. You want the bar approximately horizontal at ride height, so the difference between stock and lowered is the height of the bracket at the axle end. I believe you can get an aftermarket bracket that you weld onto the axle tube and will work on a rear end out of almost anything. This is actually better than the stock setup with the cast lug because it lets you run a longer bar. The longer the bar, the less the axle moves sideways as it goes up and down.

As for rears, all full-size GM cars EXCEPT Chevy had a 5 on 5" pattern going back to the dark ages. Most of them are narrower than the truck rears, if that is a consideration. The 57-64 Olds/Pontiac used to be very popular with racers and you can still get deep gears for it. The later BOP rears (up to about the mid 70s or so) are strong too, but gears could be a problem if you don't like what they came with. On any of these, you would have to weld on the brackets for the trailing arms and panhard bar.

Ray

Last edited by raycow; 07-15-2010 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:44 AM   #16
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

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Originally Posted by raycow View Post
The panhard bar issue isn't rocket surgery. You want the bar approximately horizontal at ride height, so the difference between stock and lowered is the height of the bracket at the axle end. I believe you can get an aftermarket bracket that you weld onto the axle tube and will work on a rear end out of almost anything. This is actually better than the stock setup with the cast lug because it lets you run a longer bar. The longer the bar, the less the axle moves sideways as it goes up and down.

As for rears, all full-size GM cars EXCEPT Chevy had a 5 on 5" pattern going back to the dark ages. Most of them are narrower than the truck rears, if that is a consideration. The 57-64 Olds/Pontiac used to be very popular with racers and you can still get deep gears for it. The later BOP rears (up to about the mid 70s or so) are strong too, but gears could be a problem if you don't like what they came with. On any of these, you would have to weld on the brackets for the trailing arms and panhard bar.

Ray
Thanks Ray,

I didn't see the panhard situation as too difficult but was hesitant to buy the kit from ECE or CPP based on what they told me.
Thanks for the insight. The kit that both companies offers I think has a bracket that bolts on at the U bolt to the passenger side trailing arm. So the bar would be longer than stock and possibly at a horizontal or level angle. I'll have to give it a try and go for it.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:04 PM   #17
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

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Thanks Ray,

I didn't see the panhard situation as too difficult but was hesitant to buy the kit from ECE or CPP based on what they told me.
Thanks for the insight. The kit that both companies offers I think has a bracket that bolts on at the U bolt to the passenger side trailing arm. So the bar would be longer than stock and possibly at a horizontal or level angle. I'll have to give it a try and go for it.
It sounds like you still have some confusion. The panhard bar and the track bar are NOT the same.

The panhard bar that ray is talking about is for stock height - 4" drop trucks. It attaches to the rear in the stock location. From what ray said you can get the bracket that for a non-coil spring rear.

The track bar is for > 4" drop and it comes with the bracket to attach to the trailing arm with the U-bolt. If you use it on a stock height truck, it wouldn't be horizontal at all.

If you staying with the stock height you should get the panhard bar and a bracket to bolt to the rear end.
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:22 PM   #18
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

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Originally Posted by swierker View Post
It sounds like you still have some confusion. The panhard bar and the track bar are NOT the same.

The panhard bar that ray is talking about is for stock height - 4" drop trucks. It attaches to the rear in the stock location. From what ray said you can get the bracket that for a non-coil spring rear.

The track bar is for > 4" drop and it comes with the bracket to attach to the trailing arm with the U-bolt. If you use it on a stock height truck, it wouldn't be horizontal at all.

If you staying with the stock height you should get the panhard bar and a bracket to bolt to the rear end.
I understand the difference.
What bracket do either of those companies sell that would bolt/weld to the rear of the newer axle I install?
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:26 PM   #19
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

Upon looking at the cpp website, they show this product:

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/...ck/6072RCK.htm

copy and paste this link to see.

It has a weld on (what they call) track bar and bracket.


What do you guys think?
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:29 PM   #20
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

And a side note,

Do a panhard bar and track bar not do the same thing essentially?

CPP doesn't show a panhard bar for sale. I think ECE does.
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Old 07-15-2010, 02:31 PM   #21
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

One more note,
ECE sells the panhard bar but no bracket.
I'll have to go see Merlin for some help.

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Old 07-15-2010, 06:56 PM   #22
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider View Post
Upon looking at the cpp website, they show this product:

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/...ck/6072RCK.htm
Yes, that's the kind I was talking about. Thank you for explaining it better than I did.

Also, I always thought that track bar and panhard bar were two different names for the same thing - sort of like some people call a differential case (the part the ring gear bolts to) a carrier.

Ray
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:16 PM   #23
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Re: 5 lug rear-end swap

The Panhard bar & Trac bar as described within this thread is the same thing kind of like how Camaros & Firebirds are both GM f-bodys. For these trucks w/the trailing arm suspension, the aftermarket sells 'Super-Trac bar' kits which are just longer, relocated Panhard bars.

Four-link/4-bar rear suspension set-ups use a 'trac bar' that attaches from the front corner of one side to the rear corner of the opposite side. They're also known as a diagonal link.

The original Panhard bars on these trucks are rather short. They attach @ the bottom of the drivers frame rail & vary where they attach on the pass side of the rear housing depending on the year model of the rear end. While it is better to swap to a longer bar (longer bar = less side to side shift over a given range of suspension travel), these trucks will get the job done w/a short bar.

For later rear end swaps, if you have the know-how & tools to weld the new perches on to a later rear end housing, you can adapt a Panhard bar mount or modify one of the brackets that come in those 'super' kits.
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