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Old 07-25-2010, 07:01 AM   #26
lakeroadster
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

The Seat Belt Story
(The Medical and Public Health Law Site)

First, there is popular concern about accidents
Individual stories - MADD is an example
Interest Groups
Nader and Public Interest
Unsafe at any Speed - 1965
Insurance industry
Then Congress passes the Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act
1967 - regulation requiring seatbelts
1972 - realized that people where not wearing the seatbelts
Regulation requiring automatic seatbelts or airbags by 1975
Required cars between 1973 and 1975 to have automatic seatbelts or ignition interlocks
Chrysler v. DOT affirmed the regs
Industry choose interlocks - why?
1974 - Congress passed a law banning regs requiring interlocks and said that all future regs on passive restraints had to be submitted to Congress for legislative veto
DOT under Ford withdrew the regs
DOT under Carter (a few months later) passed new passive restraint regs for 1982 and Congress did not veto them
1979 - Regs were affirmed in Pacific Legal Foundation v. DOT
1981 - DOT under Reagan withdrew the regs because the car companies were going to use automatic seatbelts that could be disconnected.
1983 - Motor Vehicles Manufacturers Assoc. v. State Farm hit the United States Supreme Court
The court ruled that the DOT could not withdraw the reg without a proper explanation of its actions
Remanded to the agency for review
1984 - DOT (E. Dole) promulgated a reg requiring automatic seatbelts or airbags in all cars after 1989, unless
2/3 of the population were covered by state seatbelt laws
The laws had to meet certain criteria
What did MO do?
$5 penalty
No stop
No meaningful seatbelt defense
1997 - most newer cars had airbags
1998 - airbags kill grannies and little kids!
Nothing new - known at the time
Save many more
1999 - You can get your airbag disconnected
Products liability issues?
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Old 07-25-2010, 07:47 AM   #27
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
If I'm not mistaken, 1966 was the first year for the shoulder belt option.....the weld nuts in the B-pillar.
Yes (at least in my case), my '66 cab has weld nuts while my donor '65 does not.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:19 PM   #28
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Would you have a picture of the weld nut in place?
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:37 PM   #29
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

when we where building our truck we had two "66" one for parts our parts truck had no "B" piller anchor point, it was mfg in St Louis,our "builder" was mfg in california and it has "B" piller anchor points for seat belts...
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:58 AM   #30
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerotruk63 View Post
Would you have a picture of the weld nut in place?
Well sort of. Here's a pic of the location:



what you see is the rubber plug in the (I assume) factory hole, one each side. When I removed the plugs (so dry and rotten they fell apart) to check the nut size I found NO NUTS! Just the holes. VIN# indicates a Baltimore assembly. The cab panel where these holes are is open at the bottom so it is conceivable that one could access the area to place nuts.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:28 AM   #31
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Thank you for the picture. They could have used a Rivnut, they have been around since the 30's.
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Last edited by aerotruk63; 07-26-2010 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:35 PM   #32
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Well today I remembered to go out and take a couple pictures of the B pillars in my '66's. My '66 C20 has the 'nuts' on the backside of the holes. However my '66 C30 has the holes with no threads. My C20 was built in the Fremont plant and my C30 was built in the St Louis plant. I also discovered that you can tell what is in the hole by the look of the plug in it. The ones that have threads, the center depression in the plug is only about 1/4". The plugs that are plugging just a hole in the sheetmetal have about a 7/16-1/2" depression.
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:57 AM   #33
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

[QUOTE]California Vehicle Code, section 27315. (a) The Legislature finds that a mandatory seatbelt law will contribute to reducing highway deaths and injuries by encouraging greater usage of existing manual seatbelts, that automatic crash protection systems which require no action by vehicle occupants offer the best hope of reducing deaths and injuries, and that encouraging the use of manual safety belts is only a partial remedy for addressing this major cause of death and injury. The Legislature declares that the enactment of this section is intended to be compatible with support for federal safety standards requiring automatic crash protection systems and should not be used in any manner to rescind federal requirements for installation of automatic restraints in new cars.

(b) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Motor Vehicle Safety Act.

(c) (1) As used in this section, "motor vehicle" means a passenger vehicle, a motortruck, or a truck tractor, but does not include a motorcycle.

(2) ) For purposes of this section, a “motor vehicle” also means a farm labor vehicle, regardless of the date of certification under Section 31401.

(d) (1) ) A person shall not operate a motor vehicle on a highway unless that person and all passengers 16 years of age or over are properly restrained by a safety belt. This paragraph does not apply to the operator of a taxicab, as defined in Section 27908, when the taxicab is driven on a city street and is engaged in the transportation of a fare-paying passenger. The safety belt requirement established by this paragraph is the minimum safety standard applicable to employees being transported in a motor vehicle. This paragraph does not preempt more stringent or restrictive standards imposed by the Labor Code or another state or federal regulation regarding the transportation of employees in a motor vehicle.

(2) The operator of a limousine for hire or the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 165, shall not operate the limousine for hire or authorized emergency vehicle unless the operator and any passengers six years of age or over or weighing 60 pounds or more in the front seat are properly restrained by a safety belt.

(3) The operator of a taxicab shall not operate the taxicab unless any passengers six years of age or over or weighing 60 pounds or more in the front seat are properly restrained by a safety belt.

(e) A person 16 years of age or over shall not be a passenger in a motor vehicle on a highway unless that person is properly restrained by a safety belt. This subdivision does not apply to a passenger in a sleeper berth, as defined in subdivision (x) of Section 1201 of Title 13 of the California Code of Regulations.

(f) ) An owner of a motor vehicle, including an owner or operator of a taxicab, as defined in Section 27908, or a limousine for hire, operated on a highway shall maintain safety belts in good working order for the use of occupants of the vehicle. The safety belts shall conform to motor vehicle safety standards established by the United States Department of Transportation. This subdivision, however, does not require installation or maintenance of safety belts if not required by the laws of the United States applicable to the vehicle at the time of its initial sale.

(g) This section does not apply to a passenger or operator with a physically disabling condition or medical condition that would prevent appropriate restraint in a safety belt, if the condition is duly certified by a licensed physician and surgeon or by a licensed chiropractor who shall state the nature of the condition, as well as the reason the restraint is inappropriate. This section also does not apply to a public employee, when in an authorized emergency vehicle as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 165, or to a passenger in a seat behind the front seat of an authorized emergency vehicle as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 165 operated by the public employee, unless required by the agency employing the public employee.

(h) Notwithstanding subdivision (a) of Section 42001, a violation of subdivision (d), (e), or (f) is an infraction punishable by a fine of not more than twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense, and a fine of not more than fifty dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense. In lieu of the fine and any penalty assessment or court costs, the court, pursuant to Section 42005, may order that a person convicted of a first offense attend a school for traffic violators or another court-approved program in which the proper use of safety belts is demonstrated.

(i) In a civil action, a violation of subdivision (d), (e), or (f) or information of a violation of subdivision (h) does not establish negligence as a matter of law or negligence per se for comparative fault purposes, but negligence may be proven as a fact without regard to the violation.

(j) If the United States Secretary of Transportation fails to adopt safety standards for manual safety belt systems by September 1, 1989, a motor vehicle manufactured after that date for sale or sold in this state shall not be registered unless it contains a manual safety belt system that meets the performance standards applicable to automatic crash protection devices adopted by the United States Secretary of Transportation pursuant to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 208 (49 C.F.R. 571.208) as in effect on January 1, 1985.

(k) A motor vehicle offered for original sale in this state which has been manufactured on or after September 1, 1989, shall comply with the automatic restraint requirements of Section S4.1.2.1 of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 208 (49 C.F.R. 571.208), as published in Volume 49 of the Federal Register, No. 138, page 29009. An automobile manufacturer that sells or delivers a motor vehicle subject to this subdivision, and fails to comply with this subdivision, shall be punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500) for each sale or delivery of a noncomplying motor vehicle.

(l) Compliance with subdivision (j) or (k) by a manufacturer shall be made by self-certification in the same manner as self-certification is accomplished under federal law.

(m) This section does not apply to a person actually engaged in delivery of newspapers to customers along the person's route if the person is properly restrained by a safety belt prior to commencing and subsequent to completing delivery on the route.

(n) This section does not apply to a person actually engaged in collection and delivery activities as a rural delivery carrier for the United States Postal Service if the person is properly restrained by a safety belt prior to stopping at the first box and subsequent to stopping at the last box on the route.

(o) This section does not apply to a driver actually engaged in the collection of solid waste or recyclable materials along that driver's collection route if the driver is properly restrained by a safety belt prior to commencing and subsequent to completing the collection route.

(p) Subdivisions (d), (e), (f), (g), and (h) shall become inoperative immediately upon the date that the United States Secretary of Transportation, or his or her delegate, determines to rescind the portion of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 208 (49 C.F.R. 571.208) which requires the installation of automatic restraints in new motor vehicles, except that those subdivisions shall not become inoperative if the secretary's decision to rescind that Standard No. 208 is not based, in any respect, on the enactment or continued operation of those subdivisions.

Amended Sec. 3, Ch. 557, Stats. 1999. Effective September 29, 1999.
Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 521, Stats. 2003. Effective January 1, 2004.
Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 420, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.
Amended Sec. 223, Ch. 179, Stats. 2008. Effective January 1, 2009.[QUOTE]



Kinda looks to me like there aren't exclusions for vehicles made before seat belts were required. Personally, I would never put a vehicle on the road without them. I'm just not willing to take that kind of responsibility.

Last edited by fryer1979; 07-28-2010 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:54 AM   #34
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

[quote=fryer1979;4111005][QUOTE]

(f) ) An owner of a motor vehicle, including an owner or operator of a taxicab, as defined in Section 27908, or a limousine for hire, operated on a highway shall maintain safety belts in good working order for the use of occupants of the vehicle. The safety belts shall conform to motor vehicle safety standards established by the United States Department of Transportation. This subdivision, however, does not require installation or maintenance of safety belts if not required by the laws of the United States applicable to the vehicle at the time of its initial sale.
Quote:



Kinda looks to me like there aren't exclusions for vehicles made before seat belts were required. Personally, I would never put a vehicle on the road without them. I'm just not willing to take that kind of responsibility.
fryer, I respectfully disagree, I used to have to read and interpret legislation and regulations when I worked for both State and Federal regulatory agencies. This subdivision means that all the rest of the requirements for mandatory belt use apply only to vehicles required to have them by the Feds when they were new.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:23 AM   #35
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

I did see that, but thought that it was only in reference to taxis and limos. I could be wrong though, it does happen. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:58 AM   #36
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

And, of course, I could just as equally be wrong. It seems that it is impossible to write a regulation that can be understood by us common folk. It eventually comes down to being challenged in court, the Judge's ruling, perhaps appellate court and even supreme court. I would guess that there is case law in California relating to this. Any attorneys out there willing to do some pro bono work?
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:28 AM   #37
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Its interesting that "some" 66's came with bolts welded in for shoulder strapes. I have 66 parts truck that my dad bought brand new in California. Build in May of 66 at the Fremont GM Truck plant. It had lap belts, but there are no provisions for shoulder belts.

Personally I wish it did or better yet I wish my 65 did. I have retro'd 3 point belts out of a mid-80's suburban into mine and would've preferred to used a factory installed anchor point. Shoulder belts are a must in our trucks, lap belts keeps you in the cab but also locks you in for a solid face plant into a 16 gage steel dash :-(
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:49 PM   #38
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

I used these guys for belts in my 59. Lots of colours. I used the 3 pt with the old style lift catch.

www.seatbeltplanet.com
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:25 PM   #39
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strodder View Post
Like I said "I will probably install them" I didn't say I would wear them. If I get stopped by a Cop, I'll click um on. Shoulder harness belts are to notice able.
Sometimes, just before I think I'm going to crash into something, I quick click up my seatbelt like that so I don't smash my face off.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:39 PM   #40
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Seems there's a suptle request for measurements of the location of the original holes and hole size.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:05 PM   #41
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerotruk63 View Post
measurements of the location of the original holes
This would be good.

(a little less subtle....lol)
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:33 PM   #42
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Well, I thought I'd be the online hero and post a pic of my 66's shoulder harness mounting point with measurements, etc.... so I got off my lazy butt, went to the garage, WITH a camera - and discovered I have no mounting holes at all. Nice smooth, factory painted inner cab wall on both sides. Bummer. And this throws a kink in the discussion about all 66's being fitted with at least the mounting hole - appears not the case (and I'm bummed! I was considering installing shoulder harness - now I'll have to get creative - and someone else will have to be the online guru and post the measurements....)
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:35 PM   #43
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog View Post
This would be good.

(a little less subtle....lol)
your wish is my command, will this do?

Measured to the CENTER of the hole (5/8" diameter hole), there is some angular distortion in the picture, the top and bottom pieces of tape are, in fact, parallel (that is, the bottom piece of tape is 5 1/2 below the top piece front and rear, just doesn't look it for some reason)


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Old 07-28-2010, 07:48 PM   #44
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetsidelarry View Post
And, of course, I could just as equally be wrong. It seems that it is impossible to write a regulation that can be understood by us common folk. It eventually comes down to being challenged in court, the Judge's ruling, perhaps appellate court and even supreme court. I would guess that there is case law in California relating to this. Any attorneys out there willing to do some pro bono work?
I spent an hour or so trying to dig something up here on the web related to this for clarification, but have not been able to turn anything up. I don't have very strong google-foo though, someone a little more computer savy than I could probably find it if it exists.
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:24 AM   #45
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Thank you for the measurements, could help alot of people. Interesting how we've never seen a truck on the site with the shoulder belts installed. Then again never seen a truck with a Cool Pack installed either.
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Old 07-29-2010, 05:44 AM   #46
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
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your wish is my command, will this do?
Absolutely, thanks fsl! I'm about to install belts in my '63 and your detail is much appreciated.
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:33 AM   #47
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Spotweld Nut. Do I not see a spotweld below the 5/8" hole?

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...u=38146&ucst=t

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Last edited by aerotruk63; 07-29-2010 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:31 AM   #48
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerotruk63 View Post
Spotweld Nut. Do I not see a spotweld below the 5/8" hole?

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...u=38146&ucst=t

sure looks like it in Captainfab's pictures. Thanks aero, was wondering what to use.
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:55 PM   #49
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

fwiw my 66 has lap belts but does NOT have the nuts in the b pillars or the holes
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:30 PM   #50
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Re: 1965 Seat Belts???

I can tell you from personal experience that Calif. did not require the use of lap belts on pre 1966 trucks. I owned 4 or 5 while in Fresno, got pulled over several times and the cops never had an issue. When I got pulled over in my 66s they always checked to see if I was wearing.
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