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Old 09-21-2010, 11:37 AM   #1
Street Lethal '72
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Door jamb VIN sticker

I was looking at my 72 and realized the door jamb sticker VIN was not the same as the truck, plus it was a 71 manufacture year.. anyway... I know this sticker is expected to get destroyed, swapped, and what not at this point for these vehicles.

However, I am going to replace the doors with new shells, and wanted to put a new sticker as part of the restore. I found these marketed for similar year Olds 442's:

http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/pop-...id=DC5182Z.jpg

Its not exactly right, but its what I found.. plus you have to type it yourself.. and the GM font style is nearly impossible to find.. blah, blah, blah..

I really don't care, if its the best I can find then I will use it.. and figure out the rest.

But while searching for these I found a few random posts on various forums about people buying classics with what looked to be a replacement door jamb sticker, and then they became suspect of the vehicle VIN being tampered with.. might be stolen.. etc..

If one day I decided to sell it.. do you think this copy will raise eyebrows and I just shouldn't even apply it?

Any better sources on a correct one?

Thanks.
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:10 PM   #2
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

ECS Automotive VIN tags
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Old 09-21-2010, 04:58 PM   #3
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

Nice! Thanks
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:35 AM   #4
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal '72 View Post
I was looking at my 72 and realized the door jamb sticker VIN was not the same as the truck, plus it was a 71 manufacture year.. anyway... I know this sticker is expected to get destroyed, swapped, and what not at this point for these vehicles.

However, I am going to replace the doors with new shells, and wanted to put a new sticker as part of the restore. I found these marketed for similar year Olds 442's:

http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/pop-...id=DC5182Z.jpg

Its not exactly right, but its what I found.. plus you have to type it yourself.. and the GM font style is nearly impossible to find.. blah, blah, blah..

I really don't care, if its the best I can find then I will use it.. and figure out the rest.

But while searching for these I found a few random posts on various forums about people buying classics with what looked to be a replacement door jamb sticker, and then they became suspect of the vehicle VIN being tampered with.. might be stolen.. etc..

If one day I decided to sell it.. do you think this copy will raise eyebrows and I just shouldn't even apply it?

Any better sources on a correct one?

Thanks.
NOPE: Don't worry about it ...think of it this way ..is it legal? ...if you ask the DMV they will say no.

But you can build an entire vehicle around just the clear vin. sticker/tag.
every single part can be different than what was on that vehicle when it was built. So it comes down to don't ask don't tell ...they probably wouldn't care or ever know as long as the vin comes up clear.

The law really has to do with theft and emissions fraud on late model vehicles ....you can even take a '72 chev and make it a '68 it really doesn't matter unless u bring it to their attention. They would never think about asking its not worth their time if all the paperwork is legit and clear.

Ive taken two parts trucks more than once and put together one good one ....what is it now? what if the cab was destroyed and replaced ..what vin do u use ....see what i mean?
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:19 AM   #5
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

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Originally Posted by RUSHNBOBO View Post
NOPE: Don't worry about it ...think of it this way ..is it legal? ...if you ask the DMV they will say no.

Ive taken two parts trucks more than once and put together one good one ....what is it now? what if the cab was destroyed and replaced ..what vin do u use ....see what i mean?
Well, here in Ohio, you would have to have the title to both vehicles. Then you take the truck to the Highway Patrol's inspection station with all of the paperwork. They check it out and issue a new title for the combined vehicle, eliminating the validity of the originals.
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The directions are nothing but another man's opinion.
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Bad planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an instant emergency on my part....

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Old 09-28-2010, 07:20 AM   #6
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

just going threw this now.here in Canada the police said the dash and door sticker were changed (Texas truck)but the vin # says it's an 85,but a frame # says it's an 88.they told me (in my case) if pulled over and a cop noticed the truck said 3/4 ton 2 wheel,and it was 1/2 ton 4X4,it could have been siezed on the side of the road,(as is where is.full of tools or camping supplies)towed $$,impounded more$$.Heck i even went to the dealer who told me it was some crazy light duty 3/4 ton,with a 4X4 kit added ,came back here and told the guys about it.Keith straightened me out tho,as I was prepping to do the body on it.


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=417457&page=1
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Old 09-28-2010, 01:00 PM   #7
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

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Originally Posted by motornut View Post
just going threw this now.here in Canada the police said the dash and door sticker were changed (Texas truck)but the vin # says it's an 85,but a frame # says it's an 88.they told me (in my case) if pulled over and a cop noticed the truck said 3/4 ton 2 wheel,and it was 1/2 ton 4X4,it could have been siezed on the side of the road,(as is where is.full of tools or camping supplies)towed $$,impounded more$$.Heck i even went to the dealer who told me it was some crazy light duty 3/4 ton,with a 4X4 kit added ,came back here and told the guys about it.Keith straightened me out tho,as I was prepping to do the body on it.


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=417457&page=1
Dear officer> this truck's cab was rusted out and to the point that repair was twice that of replacing the cab from a similar model. Thank you for your concern but I can't afford a new truck right now, so I decided to rebuild this one but could only find a cab from a similar year. At this point he would either say ok and let u go, arrest you, or refer you to motor vehicle dept for an exemption...with ticket in hand.

They cannot make keep u from replacing a damaged or destroyed cab on a vehicle that u deem worth fixing and it is an unreasonable expectation that you should have to locate a cab from the exact year.

Worse case scenario your at court and explain to the judge your situation ...he or she obviously notices there's no INTENT on fraud and explains that next time you rebuild a vehicle which involves replacing a part with a vin. sticker /tag ...simply go to the dmv first ....they WILL let you do it with the proper paper work and documentation. No state can tell you that you cannot replace a damaged cab on a truck.

Where people get in trouble is a case such as yours where the officer is looking at potential scenarios of theft or fraud and has few choices which favor you and must make a decision right there on the highway.
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:00 PM   #8
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

Well if your not gona get impounded or fined heck it's ok then.I guess the part for me was that the door sticker and dash vin were changed.but they wouldn't know till they looked at the frame.but i was told even tho the truck body(still) is regestered as an 85 ,it now has to go by the frame 88 if it's newer then the body,for me that makes the truck have to have an etest done.The revinning is $500+here (and you hope no fine issued),and to get it to pass an etest then more$$.I don't know what fines it could be but i don't care.i wanted a truck exempt from etest,and thought i had one.Now it's just useless till they sort it out.But then again I'm in Canada and your in the US i'm sure their may be differences besides years that are etest exempt.
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Old 09-28-2010, 04:20 PM   #9
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

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Originally Posted by motornut View Post
Well if your not gona get impounded or fined heck it's ok then.I guess the part for me was that the door sticker and dash vin were changed.but they wouldn't know till they looked at the frame.but i was told even tho the truck body(still) is regestered as an 85 ,it now has to go by the frame 88 if it's newer then the body,for me that makes the truck have to have an etest done.The revinning is $500+here (and you hope no fine issued),and to get it to pass an etest then more$$.I don't know what fines it could be but i don't care.i wanted a truck exempt from etest,and thought i had one.Now it's just useless till they sort it out.But then again I'm in Canada and your in the US i'm sure their may be differences besides years that are etest exempt.
Yea,

Your situation is more complicated because of the emissions...which is what I was explaining earlier...that's what their really looking for is emissions fraud and theft which is rampant everywhere.

In Calif. we have an older vehicle exemption which I think they finally capped at 1976 so u have a situation in that 73 and up parts are interchangeable so it is not uncommon for persons to try to make a '77 into a '73- 76' ..to avoid smog inspections. Pre '72 rarely get hassled about vin.....especially when older trucks have probably had many engine swaps and sometimes entire new sheetmetal. When you buy a brand new part that is the part that locates the vin. tag obviosly you got to get it somewhere!!....that would be your vin. tag off parts truck rust bucket. They can't tell u can't rebuild a vehicle no matter what condition its in. If a air plane crashed into it and the only recognizable part was the vin. tag. You can start all over and build around that tag, just tell them first ....u never know!!!!

If i did another I would go to the dmv and explain first and get the forms (there's 1 for everything just to be sure) They might title it as some special or salvage status but i guarantee there's a way ....Plus where I live the CHP never messes with hotrodders they know were all cool. There to busy chasing rice burners

I know 1 who lives around the block from me and I do a full dually burnout every time I leave the driveway>>>>TTYL

Read this article about how to "rebody" a vehicle ...apparently it varies widely from state to state ...some states you can start with a donor car rip off the vin. and place it on the new body ....other states are "kit" status which upon approval it is issued a new vin. as a new vehicle, and yet another is use of the serial number of the body as a vin. The latter 2 options apparently may use the current year for registering purposes.

http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/h..._dynacorn.html

Take this thread out of the oven ....cause its done!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:29 PM   #10
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

Well when i bought the truck i did have to have the etest done a couple of times till 05 it became excempt.thanks i thought it went way back to like the 60s for cali emmissions.an't holdin my breath bout my burb but someone even suggested if the vin was changed legally in texas that it could end up being legal here.....doubt it.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:59 PM   #11
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

I think in Iowa changing Vin tag is a bad thing,the DMV gets real FUNNY!!
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:45 PM   #12
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

Everybody should read this. Specifically subsection 2b.
In your case, I would buy a sticker, and put it on.
Statute 18USC511
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:34 PM   #13
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

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Originally Posted by turp mcspray View Post
Everybody should read this. Specifically subsection 2b.
In your case, I would buy a sticker, and put it on.
Statute 18USC511
Hey turp great find, this spells it out very clear although this is federal and as it says some states have different statutes and this should end this ridiculous debate

(2b "reasonably necessary for the repair") this would obviously include remove and replace jambs and or entire cab.

So saying you can never remove a tag is ridiculous LEGIT AUTO AUCTION SALVAGERS DO IT ALL THE TIME ......the statute clearly defines and talks about intentional fraud and or theft...end of story.....

I read multiple cases off the same search which talk about fed court cases concerning this statute and there was not a 1 that had anything to do with a back yard mechanic charged with rebuilding a truck and "removing" a vin for reasonable repairs....if your not gaining anything or cheating or stealing, it clearly states that these instances are considered legal under federal law..

Statute.........18USC511

(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal,
obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in
paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the
vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection
are--
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle
demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to
such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal,
obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for
the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number
for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;
and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a
decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor
Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the
motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with
or alter the decal or device by--
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to
implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:54 AM   #14
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

Everybody seems to think that if you so much as touch a vin tag, the next thing you'll see will be guns and handcuffs! LOL! There are laws for a reason, but there is an exception to every rule. A lot of it is just plain old common sense.
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:56 PM   #15
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

I'm not saying that they come down out of the sky with "guns-a-blazin'" but there are a whole lot of impounded vehicles because of this stuff. You may get it back, but it's not going to be easy. These issues can come up at the worst times. It doesn't have to because of a sale, it could be a simple as an insurance claim after an accident or even a theft.
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As for reading directions...
The directions are nothing but another man's opinion.
Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself...

Bad planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an instant emergency on my part....

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Old 09-29-2010, 06:42 PM   #16
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

I have read excerpts from several state codes re VIN tag removal. All that I have seen say it is a crime to remove VIN tags as part of an illegal enterprise or to get around the law. I have not seen any that say it is illegal for a person to remove and reattach a VIN tag under any circumstances. If there is such a law I would like to see the quote, not just a paraphrase. By my reading, the Mustang case cited above revolved around the possibly illegal/haphazard use of the tags, not around the simple fact of their removal to facilitate restoration. An improperly reattached VIN certainly might arouse suspicion but that doesn't mean it's a crime.

Bottom line ......in the process of a restoration it is not illegal to remove and replace a vin tag in the benign purpose of repairing or replacing parts of a vehicle.......

All of the laws in place are for consideration of fraud, theft or emissions tampering ....the guy working in his back yard with a pile of vintage parts which do not meet this criteria and is not intentionally attempting to fraud the system is in his right to work on around or if need be remove and replace the tag on a different part if it is in the intent of restoration

All of the state laws do differ but vin.tampering is considered a federal statute which would eventually trump state variations......
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:44 PM   #17
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

In my case it was vin tampering,and the cops said if they thought it was me,
i'd have tickets and charges ,not the truck.

Don't think i've ever been pulled over in that truck in the 8 years i've owned it........
I should ask if they know
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:33 PM   #18
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

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Originally Posted by motornut View Post
In my case it was vin tampering,and the cops said if they thought it was me,
i'd have tickets and charges ,not the truck.

Don't think i've ever been pulled over in that truck in the 8 years i've owned it........
I should ask if they know
Thats exactly what you should expect them to do; their cops!!!! If they didn't ask about what looked like tampering they wouldn't be doing their job.

The point is that if they really suspected fraud on your part ....your right ...they would immediately impound the truck. A reasonable officer might let u go after a polite explanation of why the tag looks that way ...when he runs the vin to dispatch and it comes up clear. Simply say these words: "in the process of a restoration I had to remove and replace the tag" if he knows the federal statute and u seem credible you should be on your way.

If he's not "reasonable" or is suspects something is not right....you'll have to explain it to a judge with the statute in hand, the judge has no option but to throw it out. They are not going to waste their time and resources to pursue a backyard mechanic that is totally within the law, restoring or replacing a part of the vehicle that is attached to the part with the vin. tag.

This vin debate is getting to the point that I have yet to hear about a person who was "CONVICTED" of a crime for removing and replacing a vin tag in the process of repair or restoration, all I ever hear is anecdotal evidence .....the impounded vehicles and persons "convicted of tampering" were more than likely in the process of intent to commit fraud ,theft or other crimes to scam the system.

I looked at a federal website that has literally hundreds of these cases and every conviction was related running a chop chop or had some other intent on fraud or theft. There were others that were thrown out do to benign reasons for tampering of vin. but not one conviction.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:27 PM   #19
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

It is a K15 regestered as a C20.......and a custom coversion didn't help,
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2003 Grand Am 2.2 his DD
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:35 PM   #20
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

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It is a K15 regestered as a C20.......and a custom coversion didn't help,
So what happened? ...did they impound?.... did u get arrested?...did they let u go with a warning? ....a fine? .....Are u still driving it?
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Old 10-01-2010, 02:22 AM   #21
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Re: Door jamb VIN sticker

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=417457

Still free,and driveing the truck,no fines,tickets or impound.but hasn't finished yet.

I was showing somebody how to hook up cruise control or something and someone spotted my tbi on a 85 and it started goin bad to worse and turned into an 88

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=416114

It's in like limbo,would make a great mudder(my incentive pic lol)

So what happened lol i bought a Jimmy,10 years older then my truck turned out to be(explain that to the wife)
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__________________
John http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMotornut

2002 Fleetwood Prowlerhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=431859
1978 Suburban4X2-hit while parked RIPzez
1978 OldsCutopless-CanadaDayCar
1978 GMCJimmy4X4-350/203http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421767
1979 GMCJimmy4X4-350/203http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=421767&page=2
1979 GMCJimmy4X2-305/350http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post5200107
1987 Suburban4X4-writeoff hit while parked RIPzez
1988 Suburban4X4-writeoff hit while parked RIPzez http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=417457&page=4
1989 Suburban4X2 - square igloo/SOLD
2003 Grand Am 2.2 his DD
2005 Malibu 2.2 her DD
2009 Vibe from Dad
Love em low,but get me higher

Last edited by motornut; 10-01-2010 at 02:28 AM.
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