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Old 12-19-2010, 11:41 AM   #1
kev2809
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Long water pump vs short water pump

is there a benefit to either?

im putting a 78 malibu motor in my suburban. now, i didnt even check to see what kind of pump was in it, but i replaced it with a new one from o reilly. told the guy what car the motor is from and this is what i get..


i was told this was a long water pump..which im assuming is right. (looks like it when i compare it to a 67 pump)

to me, it looks like the one that came with the truck..


the 2 main pulleys line up good with eacher (they both came with the 78 malibu motor). the 2 outer most grooves on the top and bottom pulley line up fine, leaving the third one (closest to the harmonic balancer) open. im having problems trying to get the alternator lined up. the alt is for a stock 67, with a single groove. i got the bracket from the motor that came in my truck..which appears to be another 305, but im unsure of the year. well, the pulley didnt line up with alt., and i used a ton of spacers and its still not right (even the spacer that came with bracket from the old motor). and i havent even tried to put the ps pump on yet (just got it painted, and figuring out the brackets lol).

well all this lead to...should i take it back down and get a different pump? or make the alt bracket work or find a new one. i just dont see how the alt bracket doesnt work...the pump on the old motor looks the same. i will have to take a pic and post it. and if that alt bracket is off, maybe the ps pulley will be off as well...?
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:25 PM   #2
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

The 78 has a long water pump and uses alternator brackety that mounts to the poassenger side. They won't line up with the short water pump alternator bracketry in the 67-72 Chevy/GMC trucks.

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Old 12-19-2010, 03:56 PM   #3
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

my alt bracket is on the passenger side. and the motor thats in my truck now is not original..the 2 main pulleys are from the 78..the ps pump and pulley is off the motor in my truck (not an original motor), and the alt bracket is from the motor in my truck. alt is new from o reilly, for a 67. the bracket for alt did come with a small spacer..but even with that it still doesnt line up.
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:26 PM   #4
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

you will need to use the alternator brackets for the Malibu and a later model internally regulated 1 wire or 3 wire alternator. You should also use a power steering pump and bracket for the Malibu, all your pulleys will line up then. otherwise use the 68 brackets and pulleys and a short water pump. there is not a good way to mix and match....
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:32 AM   #5
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

but the brackets and pulleys are not 68. the ps pump and pulley, and alt bracket are off of a (what look to be) a 305 with long water pump...so i dont see why they wont work on my 78 malibu motor, which also has a long water pump. again, i havent tried bolting up the ps pump, just gathering info before i do to make sure they fit. im thinking the alt bracket is for a short water pump, that the po used a spacer to make fit a long water pump.

im having trouble posting pics of the motor thats in the truck now (which is what the ps pump, ps pulley and bracket, and alt bracket is from). if anyone wants me to email them to post up i can do that. just let me know. i dont have a lot of engine skills lol, so figuring if this is a long or short on the motor in the truck is my problem


*edit* why would i need an internally regulated alternator? i went with a 67 externally so i didnt have to do the internal modification. would it bolt up different? my stock plug plugs right into the new one i bought...
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:12 PM   #6
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

I have a '73 454 in my '71 and used the stock alternator for the '71 but ran longer wires and put it on the passenger side. Works just fine.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:08 PM   #7
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

The reason I said to go with the later internally regulated alternator is that it what the Malibu brackets were designed for, the 67 alternator may be different dimensions. I have the old one of my 67 at home I can compare it to the one on my '78 caprice. I will post pics of both my old 67 engine and my caprice engine sometime tomorrow. The caprice should be almost exactly the same as your Malibu engine.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:57 PM   #8
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

to revive an old thread! i put the motor on hold for a while, just got it in a few weeks ago and im trying again to get these accessories in! i didnt like my mismatching brackets for the alt bracket and ps pump so i found some on the board. problem is, i didnt remember if i had short or long pump and these are short, lol.

anywho, i wanted to get the alt back on the driver side anyways. question 1) since, the short water pump is 5 7/8" from hub to mounting, and the long is 7 1/4", couldnt i space the bracket and alt. out the difference (little over an inch) to get them to line up? question 2) im having problems with the power steering again. i got new brackets which bolt up fine, but i had trouble getting the pulley back on. i know i used a puller to get it off the first time, putting it on i just set it on and used a socket and hammer and tapped it back on. it pretty much got it back on but it spins a little wobbly! now im thinking of pulling it back off the mount the bracket anyways, but how the heck does it go back on?





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Old 04-28-2012, 05:19 PM   #9
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

OK to save you some grief just go buy a short water pump. If your brackets are for a short water pump you will never get them to line up with a long water pump. Secondly if you beat the pulley onto the power steering pump go get another pump. Yours is ruined it will shortly self destruct and take the steering box with it. You need to use a power steering pulley installer. A bolt nut and washer will do the trick. Some of the older power steering pumps just simply used a nut on the end of the shaft to hold the pulley in place. The newer units use a press fit pulley and it has to be pressed on. You can either buy a power steering pulley installer like this one Amazon.com: OTC 7005 Power Steering Pump Pulley... Amazon.com: OTC 7005 Power Steering Pump Pulley... . The other option is to use a 3/8's x16 thread bolt about 3 inches long. Use a nut and washer to install the pulley. Screw the bolt down into the shaft with the nut and washer already on the bolt. Once the bolt bottoms put a little lube in the washer and nut where they contact each other. Now turn the nut until the pulley seats down on the pump.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:20 PM   #10
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

Nevermind after looking at your pictures again you have the old style pump. Your missing the nut and lock washer and stuff thats supposed to hold the pulley on. Make sure that the shaft itself isnt bent then make sure that the pump is sitting straight in the bracket.Also your top alternator bracket is on the wrong side of the alternator. It should be mounted in front so you can adjust the alternator through the full sweep.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:39 PM   #11
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

What's the second pulley for on the PS pump?

I agree with cableguy and would just go get a short water pump. They shouldn't cost more than $40 bucks or so.

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Old 04-28-2012, 06:43 PM   #12
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

well before even seeing if anyone responded in thread, and went to buy some longer bolts and spacers and see what happens. looks they will work....









i also re-rented the ps puller and pulled the pulley back off so i can mount the bracket right. now im in the process of putting the pulley back on, but i dont see how this puller is going to put it back on? it has a key shaft, but the pulley doesnt just "slide" on...
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:53 PM   #13
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

What grade are those bolts? I don't think I would run that like that.

Gary
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:02 PM   #14
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

Grade 5...

Should i get grade 8?
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:13 PM   #15
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

heres the other bracket i was using, i had to use a spacer with this one too...







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Old 04-28-2012, 09:06 PM   #16
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

I certainly would not use the alternator on the driver's side with those long spacers. Those bolts break without the spacers. The spacers will make it much worse. You are going to end up with grade 8 bolts busted off in your head, and then those are fun to drill.

It looks like you have a long water pump. If there is space between the timing chain cover and the WP, then it's long. A short pump sits right up against the timing chain cover tightly.

If you are keeping your long water pump, you must use the passenger side alternator mount.

As for the PS mount and pulley, it also has to be for a long water pump setup. I can't tell which one yours is. But you need to get a nut on there. Don't beat the pulley on. Just use the nut to pull it on to the shaft.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:22 PM   #17
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

i guess i will be using my ugly passenger side brackets then.


the pulley doesnt slide on the shaft at all...i have the nut but it doesnt even come close to goin on because the pulley wont go on enough
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:24 PM   #18
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

You can use all the stock brackets for a '67-'72 Chevy if you get a short pump.

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Old 04-28-2012, 09:26 PM   #19
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

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i guess i will be using my ugly passenger side brackets then.

the pulley doesnt slide on the shaft at all...i have the nut but it doesnt even come close to goin on because the pulley wont go on enough
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Or you can get a short water pump ($40 or so) and put the alternator on the driver's side. But then you need to make sure the other accessories line up. A two groove PS pump is most likely for the long WP setup only. This gets confusing because mixing brackets and pulleys from unknown assemblies can drive you nuts. What gets really interesting is when you have a box of Chevy, Ford and Mopar water pump pullies. They all have similar bolt patterns but slightly different offsets and sizes. One can go crazy!

If it were me, I'd go to a junk yard and start over with complete assemblies that you know all line up, brackets and pullies.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:28 PM   #20
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

Do yourself a favor, use ALL the pulleys/brackets/pumps from 1 engine! It dont matter if you go short or long.....take it ALL off 1 engine crazyL
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:18 PM   #21
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

It should be illegal for someone to mismatch brackets...it confuses the hell out of the next owner!

Well, since the fan pulley, crank pulley, and now alternater (pass. Side) seem to line up, getting all new brackets would be going backwards...especially if the double groove ps pulley is for long water pumps.

So now, how to get the pulley on with pulley puller i rented......
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:39 PM   #22
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

Even if your power steering pump and pulley are for a long water pump, the brackets are for a short water pump. It is a whole lot easier if everything is for either a short water pump or a long water pump. Mixing and matching just causes issues.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:09 PM   #23
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

You would be money ahead to go to a salvage yard and pick up a full serpentine setup of a 94 to 98 chevy truck and be done with it. Also you will gain a ac compressor for later use.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:26 PM   #24
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

^^^ ive been thinking of a serpentine setup...
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:11 PM   #25
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Re: Long water pump vs short water pump

this is what the pump shaft looks like...it doesnt have a threaded hole in the middle of the shaft that the puller uses..





well, if i swap to a short pump to use these brackets i have, wouldnt that mess up the fan pulley and cs pulley? seems simpler to keep everything and find a long water pump ps bracket.

would my original brackets i had be lwp brackets?
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