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Old 05-20-2011, 03:28 PM   #1
SulphuriousSam
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Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Hi All,

I know that to some the patina look is popular now and it's actually growing on me but my wife is hating it. Problem is it could be a long time before i can get to the necessary body work for a good paint job. So I'm wondering, what kind of cons are there against spraying this puppy with rattle can black or even a black primer just to give it one color? If it was just me I'd run the patina and call it good but I need the wife to support this or the project is a no start!

Anybody else do this, or have some other solution? I was thinking of just lightly sanding it and throwing a cheap flat paint or black primer on it. My buddy suggested grey because the black would limit my paint options later? Like lighter paints would be hard to do over the black?

Let me hear your thoughts, rants, etc!

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Old 05-20-2011, 03:40 PM   #2
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

you will wish you had left it the first show you go to and see line after line of black trucks. its about as unique as a bellybutton any more. patina by nature is unique, no two trucks are the same. rattlecan primer isnt meant to be a weatherproof solution, so you will invariably have to sand it off when you do paint it.

I dont like rattle can flat black trucks on dented/rusty trucks, but single/two stage flat black jobs with finished bodywork are a cut above.
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:43 PM   #3
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Talking Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

The only real problem with doing that is that it'll permanently fark it up. But if it'll make your wife happy ...
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:51 PM   #4
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Rattle can primer is essentially old school lacquer primer, and it is porous. So if you sand down the truck and spray it with spray can primer itís going to get rustier. If you decide to spray it later with catalyzed automotive paint, all the lacquer will have to come back off or the hardened paint will lift it. Regular flat or satin black (or any other color) paint will coat the surface and keep it from rusting, but it will also have to come off if catalyzed paint is going on.

I did mine with John Deere Blitz Black which is just unhardened synthetic enamel like Rustoleum, but it is paint not primer. I needed something cheap that didnít require disassembling the whole truck again, and this fills the bill for my needs, since it will remain this way as long as I own the truck.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #5
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

I went with rattle can olive drab on my daily driver/beater VW. It looked a lot better than the beat up white paint it had before (my wife also likes it better). The only down side is it will start to oxidize after a couple years, a washing with a scotchbrite pad will bring it back to life for a little while but you will eventually have to respray it.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:44 PM   #6
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Trade the wife....
Keep the truck
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:00 PM   #7
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedoh View Post
you will wish you had left it the first show you go to and see line after line of black trucks. its about as unique as a bellybutton any more. patina by nature is unique, no two trucks are the same. rattlecan primer isnt meant to be a weatherproof solution, so you will invariably have to sand it off when you do paint it.

I dont like rattle can flat black trucks on dented/rusty trucks, but single/two stage flat black jobs with finished bodywork are a cut above.
I realize it's getting to be a worn out look but I was thinking primer and I can't stand the grey that I see around here all the time. Now after what you told me about primer not being weatherproof (I'm a novice...I didn't know that!) well I'm leaning towards a paint and that gives me options.

I would prefer not to have a rattle can paint job but in Oklahoma it does rain and I plan on driving this truck it's not planned to be a show queen so I gotta preserve the body somehow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revoh View Post
The only real problem with doing that is that it'll permanently fark it up. But if it'll make your wife happy ...
Happy wife...i keep the truck. Pissy wife....lose my life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markeb01 View Post
Rattle can primer is essentially old school lacquer primer, and it is porous. So if you sand down the truck and spray it with spray can primer itís going to get rustier. If you decide to spray it later with catalyzed automotive paint, all the lacquer will have to come back off or the hardened paint will lift it. Regular flat or satin black (or any other color) paint will coat the surface and keep it from rusting, but it will also have to come off if catalyzed paint is going on.

I did mine with John Deere Blitz Black which is just unhardened synthetic enamel like Rustoleum, but it is paint not primer. I needed something cheap that didnít require disassembling the whole truck again, and this fills the bill for my needs, since it will remain this way as long as I own the truck.
I will look into the Blitz Black idea. I didn't know about primer not really protecting the metal. I learn something new everyday!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotroddr View Post
I went with rattle can olive drab on my daily driver/beater VW. It looked a lot better than the beat up white paint it had before (my wife also likes it better). The only down side is it will start to oxidize after a couple years, a washing with a scotchbrite pad will bring it back to life for a little while but you will eventually have to respray it.
I think that looks pretty cool actually

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Trade the wife....
Keep the truck
Uhm...I'm still upside down on the wife. The trucks paid for!
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:31 PM   #8
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

markeb01 is dead on, uncatalyzed primer is nothing but a sponge.

Ugh!!! this just won't go away... I have seen so many decent cars killed by "saving it (for now) with primer".

If you must get it one color for now, I would suggest a catalyzed primer. You can even tint it... go to your automotive paint store and ask about your options.

If you can find a way to schmooze her into keeping the patina, just give it the CLR treatment and wax it.

IMHO, painting this one would be a crime.
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:37 PM   #9
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

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Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
markeb01 is dead on, uncatalyzed primer is nothing but a sponge.

Ugh!!! this just won't go away... I have seen so many decent cars killed by "saving it (for now) with primer".

If you must get it one color for now, I would suggest a catalyzed primer. You can even tint it... go to your automotive paint store and ask about your options.

If you can find a way to schmooze her into keeping the patina, just give it the CLR treatment and wax it.

IMHO, painting this one would be a crime.
Yeah the more I see the replies the less I want to paint it. You think wax will be enough to protect it for now? Obviously more upkeep than paint but barring the wife leaving me, I'd rather not mess with paint until I can do it up right.

I don't know if you noticed but the buddy who helped me pick this up took a can of black spray paint and demonstrated on the front fender... now I need to figure out how to get that off there! Oh...and keep my wife from being a pain about the paint....hmmm
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:15 PM   #10
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

I am with mark , I painted a mud truck with black derusto or rustoleum and poeple thought it was a lacquer job it layed down so nice .. I painted my drag car in white same paint and spayed it right straight from the can , took a few days to dry but it layed down nice , cheap too ....
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:49 AM   #11
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

A friend suggested chassis black paint tonight. I think it rains too much around here to not cover that rust with something and this truck is going to be a driver...I appreciate y'all divulging your experience it's helped me alot!
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Old 05-21-2011, 02:15 AM   #12
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

How about an out flanking manuever on the wife by explaining that rattlecanning it will cause the further rusting problems and add EXPENSE wifes hate that word of stripping if before a real final paint job can be applied. Isn't there some way to clean it up a bit I think some have mentioned using CLR to clean and stop the rust and then you could keep the patina for a while til your ready for paint and maybe hold off the wife for a while by claiming that doing anything ahead of time will just cost more money down the line. Money that could have been used for some really nice gift that she might have recieved had you not been made to waste it all. You know your wife push the envelope a little see what you can get away with without getting in trouble after getting caught trying to B.S. her.
If that doesn't work I vote for a nice suede blue.
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:28 AM   #13
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

I have spent a couple of years now trying to finish my truck. Learned the hard way about primer ( look at my link to see how many times I had to take it back down to metal) I wish I had seen all the threads and info on the patina look. I would have left mine alone and sprayed it with a sealer coat and spent the time and $$$$ on the interior.

There is a thread on here on the patina look. Have the wifey look at that and let her know it is the "in" look.


Good Luck
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:57 PM   #14
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Go down to your local paint store and you can usually pick up a 2k primer kit for a reasonable price
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Old 05-23-2011, 04:34 AM   #15
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Well...If your wife doesn't have to look at it like that will she mind it less? Keep it covered when your not driving it and she might I say might let it slide like it is or ask her about enlarging the garage to keep it out of site.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:38 AM   #16
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions guys

I passed a couple of them by a friend who has some body shop experience and he said definitely do not wax or spray clear on the truck because both would be really difficult to get rid of in cracks and seams without having to sand blast the entire body.

These two suggestions were my favorite ideas because I've basically gotten my wife convinced it's best not to mess with the color until it's all mechanically sound.

Anybody here with paint & body experience want to weigh in on the idea that using wax or clear coat on my patina will force me to basically strip the truck to bare metal before painting later? Keep in mind I want to avoid this since she's not going to be a trailer queen just a fun ride and driver.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:27 PM   #17
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

I agree with your friend about wax. Never put it on anything you're going to want to paint later. Getting "all" of it off can take as much work as the rest of the paint job.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:43 PM   #18
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Don't do either, wax does get in all the cracks and will peal your fresh paint later on. Clearing it could be done but its iffy. If I were going to do it I would clean the truck spotless by washing it with Dawn and hot water then let it dry in the room you plan to clear it in. Next get a quart or two of Bullydog Adhesion promoter, spray 3-4 coats of it then clear it with 3-4 coats of clear.
I did this to a chrome bumper on my S-10 and its been on there for 7 years now.
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Old 05-27-2011, 11:34 AM   #19
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 61_FL_Apache View Post
Trade the wife....
Keep the truck
win/win
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:44 PM   #20
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

As a body man I agree to go the petina look and try to convince the wife you are saving money, because you will be truthfully. ANY product applied over the peeling/cracked/damaged paint will add labor hours to a finished paint job. Another point to make is that rattle can and other non auto paints tend to gum up sand paper rather than sanding off easily. They can also produce horrible reactions with other paint products, bubbling, peeling, fish eyes and blushing can occur. Wax is very hard to remove, but can be done, and a reputable shop should use a degreasing process before any painting begins. A rust convertor can be used in scratches or seams, and will cause the rust to harden and should seal it, in prep for later work. Almost all primers are useless for sealing out water, even if the substrate has not been opened by sanding. I have seen cars that were primed, and never exposed to direct moisture that rusted due to only humid air. So expecting primer to stand up to rain or road grime is unwise, and may lead to nice rust bubbles under your shiny new paint.
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Old 05-28-2011, 03:49 PM   #21
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Oh please, honestly guys... my suggestion of using wax is no big deal... sheesh. Bottom line is that truck is gonna need to be stripped prior to a real paint job anyway, that is SO obvious. Who cares if the wax permiates the existing paint, scratches, etc...? It has to come off. Period.

Made my living as a painter for over a dozen years in high end shops... not an amature opinion.

So if you want to coat it in any way, form, or fashion, that will ALL need to come back off anyway.

Good old carnuba wax will be the easiest, quickest, and cheapest way to seal for now AND be the easiest, quickest, and cheapest to remove when the time comes.

Your truck, do as you please...
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:00 PM   #22
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SulphuriousSam View Post
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions guys

I passed a couple of them by a friend who has some body shop experience and he said definitely do not wax or spray clear on the truck because both would be really difficult to get rid of in cracks and seams without having to sand blast the entire body.

These two suggestions were my favorite ideas because I've basically gotten my wife convinced it's best not to mess with the color until it's all mechanically sound.

Anybody here with paint & body experience want to weigh in on the idea that using wax or clear coat on my patina will force me to basically strip the truck to bare metal before painting later? Keep in mind I want to avoid this since she's not going to be a trailer queen just a fun ride and driver.
Your freind would be correct IF you could save the existing paint, but you can't. Sorry. Even if you went straight to your eventual paint job now, it needs to be stripped.

The problem is the existing paint has almost completely broken down and is not a stable substrate to work with. Trying to cheat here will cost in the end.

Remember, it's the prep that separates a good paint job from a crappy one.
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Old 05-28-2011, 04:05 PM   #23
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SulphuriousSam View Post
Yeah the more I see the replies the less I want to paint it. You think wax will be enough to protect it for now? Obviously more upkeep than paint but barring the wife leaving me, I'd rather not mess with paint until I can do it up right.

I don't know if you noticed but the buddy who helped me pick this up took a can of black spray paint and demonstrated on the front fender... now I need to figure out how to get that off there! Oh...and keep my wife from being a pain about the paint....hmmm
Get a rag really wet with some lacquer thinner and the spray paint will wipe right off.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:11 PM   #24
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Red face Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
Oh please, honestly guys... my suggestion of using wax is no big deal... sheesh. Bottom line is that truck is gonna need to be stripped prior to a real paint job anyway, that is SO obvious. Who cares if the wax permiates the existing paint, scratches, etc...? It has to come off. Period.

Made my living as a painter for over a dozen years in high end shops... not an amature opinion.

So if you want to coat it in any way, form, or fashion, that will ALL need to come back off anyway.

Good old carnuba wax will be the easiest, quickest, and cheapest way to seal for now AND be the easiest, quickest, and cheapest to remove when the time comes.

Your truck, do as you please...
Honestly I was hoping you would reply again because I wanted to go with your wax idea and my friend at work shot the idea down. No disrespect was ever intended!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
Your freind would be correct IF you could save the existing paint, but you can't. Sorry. Even if you went straight to your eventual paint job now, it needs to be stripped.

The problem is the existing paint has almost completely broken down and is not a stable substrate to work with. Trying to cheat here will cost in the end.

Remember, it's the prep that separates a good paint job from a crappy one.
Well I guess I'll just wax as that sounds the cheapest route until I get her mechanically sound and running good. Thanks for the heads up!

Quote:
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Get a rag really wet with some lacquer thinner and the spray paint will wipe right off.
Yeah I planned on doing just that. Project starts in a week or two, we've been moving the last couple of weeks and once we have the house squared away I'm going to get started. Have to do breaks all around, new rings, and no telling what I'll find once we open that engine up! Guys I really appreciate your comments and advice...I won't be trading the wife or the truck though, I happen to love em both haha!
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:23 AM   #25
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Re: Rattle Can or Primer before body work...

Auto painters have to deal with wax on a daily basis, guess it may have got under my skin a bit with some of these statements. Nuf said.

Whatever you do... use the CLR first. Really brings a lot of color back, maybe even to the point where you wife may like it
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