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Old 07-21-2012, 06:24 PM   #1
glock7018
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454 vs 496 vs 502

Hey there this will be my first post. I have a project in my head as of now and I cant seem to make up my mind which route i should go for the motor. The project in mind is a K30 crew cab long bed. Truck would be lifted just a little to help clear either 35's or 37's with some trimming, and would be used as a "truck".

Now my main question is what motor should i use? Defiantly want to go BBC , 350-400hp with around 500 ft/lbs of torque. My first reaction is to go with GM Performance HT502 making 340 hp and 512 ft/lbs. But at over $6000 I want to explore my options.

Do you guys think a built 454 or a 496 would be a better, more economical option? Are these motors capable producing mild hp while keeping gobs of torque down low where i need it?

I would be using a SM465 with a ranger overdrive, while running either 4.10's or 4.56's depending on which tire size I go.

Thanks for reading, I'm a total beginner when it comes to gas motors.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:56 PM   #2
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

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Originally Posted by glock7018 View Post
Hey there this will be my first post. I have a project in my head as of now and I cant seem to make up my mind which route i should go for the motor. The project in mind is a K30 crew cab long bed. Truck would be lifted just a little to help clear either 35's or 37's with some trimming, and would be used as a "truck".

Now my main question is what motor should i use? Defiantly want to go BBC , 350-400hp with around 500 ft/lbs of torque. My first reaction is to go with GM Performance HT502 making 340 hp and 512 ft/lbs. But at over $6000 I want to explore my options.

Do you guys think a built 454 or a 496 would be a better, more economical option? Are these motors capable producing mild hp while keeping gobs of torque down low where i need it?

I would be using a SM465 with a ranger overdrive, while running either 4.10's or 4.56's depending on which tire size I go.

Thanks for reading, I'm a total beginner when it comes to gas motors.
The Ranger OD doesn't like much over 400ft/lbs of torque, if I remember correctly.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:41 PM   #3
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

Its rated around 420 ft/lbs. Keep in in mind SM465 is only rated at 465ftlbs and lives behind healthy V8's. There is a guy who has one that lives behind a cummins 6bt for over 100,000 miles. Im not too concerned.

Also its worth noting that whichever motor I go with, will be fuel injected.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:47 PM   #4
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I had a similar question and was thinking about buying a 502 but ended up building a 535 with parts from Competition Products in Wisconsin for only a little more and it makes 666T and 633HP. I would at least check those guys out. 502 is a great motor because of the big bore but if you don't really care about HP and are more worried about torque I would think a 496 would be great and be lot cheaper. Could be wrong on some of this tho
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #5
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

Depends on what your plans are down the road IMO.

Dollar for dollar a 496 is going to be hard to beat. Throw in a cam with similar specs to the HT502 cam and a set of 781's or 049's and it's going to pull like a tractor.

The 502 would give you way more options for adding cubes down the road, but no matter how you slice it, its gonna be pretty costly.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #6
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

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Originally Posted by Scotty-D View Post
Depends on what your plans are down the road IMO.

Dollar for dollar a 496 is going to be hard to beat. Throw in a cam with similar specs to the HT502 cam and a set of 781's or 049's and it's going to pull like a tractor.

The 502 would give you way more options for adding cubes down the road, but no matter how you slice it, its gonna be pretty costly.
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My plans down the road are to have a reliable truck with good power. I will look more into the 496.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:16 AM   #7
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

Only thing that I have wondered about is the long term reliability of a 496? That long crank messes with your rod ratio and longer cranks don't last as long. Or the bearings at least.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:12 PM   #8
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

go with a 454, even a mild 454 will give you the power levels you want
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:23 PM   #9
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

the 496/8.1L is a very reliable motor and has been ran in high rpm marine aps. for many years and also in the 01-06(07 classic) GM 2500hd-3500 trucks flawlessly, atleast all the ones i know anyway. my brothers 03 chev 8.1 has over 200k on it and the only thing engine related he's ever had to replace was the water pump at like 180k. i dont know the difference between the factory 8.1l and say a 496 crate motor but if the crate motor is as good as the factory engine i wouldnt hesitate on a 496. you could probably pick up a wrecked truck with the 8.1l for about the same as a crate motor but then you'd have all the electrical for the efi, and also either an allison auto or a ZF6 6-speed to go with it. or find a used 8.1l engine for around a grand and give it a rebuild and some goodies and still probably be cheaper than a crate motor. the 8.1l that came in the gm trucks was rated at 340hp/455tq and with a raylar cam and heads and a good set of longtubes i've seen guys make well over 500hp. in my opinion the 8.1l was the best torque/towing gas engine ever put in a factory truck.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:33 AM   #10
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I'm just starting to finish my 496. I'll have alittle over $4000 in mine. So, it's not to terrible. I hope to have atleast 550hp oit of mine. I'm running 781 heads with a gasket match and bowl blend with a gasket matched Torker 2 intake. The machine shop said I'll have torque monster.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:54 PM   #11
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I thought that the factory 8.1 liter had a larger bore and shorter stroke (than a stroked 454/496) thereby giving it more reliable higher RPM capabilities and in the process unshrouding the valves. Am I incorrect in this?
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:30 PM   #12
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I'm quite positive the factory 8.1 had the longer stroke to get more torque, i thought i read it somewhere on a gm site. i'll see if i can find the info again just to be sure.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:50 PM   #13
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

this is what i read-

The Vortec 8100 (RPO L18) is a V8 truck engine. It is a redesigned Chevrolet Big-Block engine and was introduced with the 2001 full-size pickup trucks. It is an all-iron engine (block and heads) with two valves per cylinder. It retains the same bore centers as the old 7.4 L big-blocks, but stroke was upped by 9.4 mm (0.4 in) to reach 8.1L (496cuin) for a total of 107.95 mm (4.3 in) bore and 111 mm (4.4 in) stroke. Power output ranges from 325 hp (242 kW) to 550 hp (410 kW) and torque from 455 lbft (617 Nm) to 690 lbft (936 Nm). Vortec 8100s were built in Tonawanda, New York. The Vortec 8100 is the engine used in the largest Uhaul, their 26-foot (7.9 m) truck. GM stopped installing big block V-8's in the Silverado HD trucks, when the GMT-800 series was discontinued in 2007. 8100 marine engines range from 400 to 600 hp (447 kW) and come with a stand-alone Engine Control Module (ECM). The last L18 was manufactured in December 2009.

Important differences between the Vortec 8100 and older big blocks include a changed firing order (1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3), a new 18-bolt head bolt pattern, different symmetrical intake ports, different oil pan rails and the use of metric threads throughout the engine. The fuel-injection system for the Vortec 8100 is nearly identical to that used on Gen III engines, right down to the fuel and spark tables in the ECU.[25]

Last edited by vern650; 07-23-2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:28 PM   #14
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

Quote:
Originally Posted by vern650 View Post
this is what i read-

The Vortec 8100 (RPO L18) is a V8 truck engine. It is a redesigned Chevrolet Big-Block engine and was introduced with the 2001 full-size pickup trucks. It is an all-iron engine (block and heads) with two valves per cylinder. It retains the same bore centers as the old 7.4 L big-blocks, but stroke was upped by 9.4 mm (0.4 in) to reach 8.1L (496cuin) for a total of 107.95 mm (4.3 in) bore and 111 mm (4.4 in) stroke. Power output ranges from 325 hp (242 kW) to 550 hp (410 kW) and torque from 455 lbft (617 Nm) to 690 lbft (936 Nm). Vortec 8100s were built in Tonawanda, New York. The Vortec 8100 is the engine used in the largest Uhaul, their 26-foot (7.9 m) truck. GM stopped installing big block V-8's in the Silverado HD trucks, when the GMT-800 series was discontinued in 2007. 8100 marine engines range from 400 to 600 hp (447 kW) and come with a stand-alone Engine Control Module (ECM). The last L18 was manufactured in December 2009.

Important differences between the Vortec 8100 and older big blocks include a changed firing order (1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3), a new 18-bolt head bolt pattern, different symmetrical intake ports, different oil pan rails and the use of metric threads throughout the engine. The fuel-injection system for the Vortec 8100 is nearly identical to that used on Gen III engines, right down to the fuel and spark tables in the ECU.[25]
Dart is making new blocks and heads for those motors now too.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:03 PM   #15
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I would recommend the 467 to you!

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/...binations.html
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:58 AM   #16
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I stand corrected. A 496 has a 4.25 inch stroke if i remember correctly. My 535 has a 4.5 inch stroke. Heck I am with you then, I would do the 8.1 liter if the stand alone fuel injection wasn't TOOO pricy. Would surely be less than aftermarket fuel injecting a originally carbed stroked 454. Plus you would have all the serpentine everything and better seals and gaskets that do not leak nearly as easily. I know where 4 of these engines are at this very second that range from 50,000 miles to 150,000. And they aren't that expensive.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:35 AM   #17
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

No words can describe it but fun in my buddies Chevelle.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #18
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

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I stand corrected. A 496 has a 4.25 inch stroke if i remember correctly. My 535 has a 4.5 inch stroke. Heck I am with you then, I would do the 8.1 liter if the stand alone fuel injection wasn't TOOO pricy. Would surely be less than aftermarket fuel injecting a originally carbed stroked 454. Plus you would have all the serpentine everything and better seals and gaskets that do not leak nearly as easily. I know where 4 of these engines are at this very second that range from 50,000 miles to 150,000. And they aren't that expensive.
The 496's made from a 454 are 4.310" bore and 4.250" stroke.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:49 PM   #19
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I would like to go crate motor, don't want to deal with the headaches of swapping a modern motor in. I think I will start talking to some engine builders about their thoughts on a 496 with 375-400 Hp and as much torque as they can give me. Like a said before I dont want anything crazy, any more power will get me into trouble
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:31 AM   #20
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

You'll make 375-400hp easily out of a 496. You'll also have torque out the a$$ too.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:42 AM   #21
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

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No words can describe it but fun in my buddies Chevelle.
Nice! 66?
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:58 PM   #22
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I am not sure.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:49 AM   #23
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

Yep. One year only..1966. My first and second car. 1967 was kinda like it.
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Old 07-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #24
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

I have a low budget 496 with 781 heads, pump gas, good torque and great street manners! So far no major complaints.
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:24 AM   #25
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Re: 454 vs 496 vs 502

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I have a low budget 496 with 781 heads, pump gas, good torque and great street manners! So far no major complaints.
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Ever had it dynoed?
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