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Old 05-14-2013, 06:24 AM   #1
SuperC10Tex
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Crate Engine?

First, is the factory 350 found in my 72 GMC a "Long Block"? After reading about replacing or rebuilding engines here on the forum....it sounds like Crate Engines are the way to go? I have also ran across a "Fully Assembled "Brand New" 350CID 260HP with Turbo 350 Auto Transmission Package" for $4300. I would just need to find a reasonable shop to pull and install. Any ideas or suggestion, sure would appreciated.
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Last edited by SuperC10Tex; 05-14-2013 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:45 AM   #2
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Re: Crate Engine?

Had a cylinder go bad in my K-20. Instead of attempting to repair (sleeve), I opted for a GM crate 350 engine for right around $1,400. Pulled the old one, and installed the crate in a weekend. Not hard, just take your time, and take lots of pictures as you go.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:13 AM   #3
steelhorse
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Re: Crate Engine?

A long block is any engine that has the block plus the heads. A short block is just the bottom end (block,crank,pistons ect...) Crate engine is complete engine with or without the carb/fuel inj ect... depending upon options. Hope this helps.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:30 AM   #4
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Smile Re: Crate Engine?

Respectfully......$4300 sounds high to me for that motor and trans combination.
Some of the guys will probably weigh in on some better prices on some more capable crate engines.
The (3 speed) TH350 is a bit outdated compared to the newer 4 speed automatics like the 4L60 and 700R series transmissions.
My two bits.
Coley
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:40 AM   #5
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Re: Crate Engine?

Just remember... a "crate engine" is a brand new engine. Not a remanufactured old stocker with a turned crank and resized rods. So if you get a GM crate engine from a dealer or Summit Racing or Jegs... it has new EVERYTHING (block, heads, crank, rods, pistons, cam and lifters, etc.

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:53 AM   #6
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Re: Crate Engine?

Just to mention, the GMPP crate engines are only warrantied if installed by a GM dealer / ASE certified mechanic.

Also, I bought one of the probably millions of these that were sold.. and of those million I got a bad one. 350/290hp version but there was a bad run of these where 4.3l V6 valve seals were used. After 500 or so miles mine started smoking really bad. Not a huge deal, we fixed it.. but I guess I just feel like the QC might be lackin just a little.

Not saying they are ALL bad, because if there were 500 of them sitting in a warehouse and one with a problem,.. that's the one I'd get. Now, this has been 7-8yrs ago so they may have fixed it / exhausted that inventory. Just saying for the money they are hard to beat. That 290hp version pulled hard IMO, and had a nice lick to it. I think they are .222 cam, something like that. I hear you can put Vortecs on this same motor and pull 400hp out of it very easily. I has 76cc heads on it out of the crate.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #7
SuperC10Tex
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Re: Crate Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelhorse View Post
A long block is any engine that has the block plus the heads. A short block is just the bottom end (block,crank,pistons ect...) Crate engine is complete engine with or without the carb/fuel inj ect... depending upon options. Hope this helps.
Thank you SIR!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coley View Post
Respectfully......$4300 sounds high to me for that motor and trans combination.
Some of the guys will probably weigh in on some better prices on some more capable crate engines.
The (3 speed) TH350 is a bit outdated compared to the newer 4 speed automatics like the 4L60 and 700R series transmissions.
My two bits.
Coley
Yes, I agree about the 700R ($5700)......the $4300 is a turn key and full drop in package. Below is what all the $4300 packages comes with...Any opinions?

This turn-key GM 350CID engine comes fully assembled using a brand new (not remanufactured) GM 10067353 350cid 4 bolt main long block. We have preinstalled all name brand components needed to make this engine ready to run, right out of the crate.



Specifications:
Power: 260 HP @4300 RPM, 350 ft. lbs. of torque @ 3600 RPM
Displacement: 350 CID, 5.7L
Bore x Stroke: 4.00” x 3.48”
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Recommended Fuel: 87 Octane
Block: Cast Iron, 2 piece rear seal, 4-bolt main caps.
Crankshaft: Nodular Iron
Connecting Rods: Powdered Metal Steel
Pistons: Cast Aluminum
Camshaft: Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Cam Lift: .383” Intake / .401” exhaust
Cam Duration @ .050”: 194 deg. Intake / 202 deg. Exhaust
Lobe Separation: 112 Degree
Cylinder Heads: Cast Iron, 3/8” pressed in rocker studs.
Combustion Chamber: 76cc
Valves: .194” Intake/ 1.50” Exhaust
Rocker Arms: Stamped Steel, 1.5:1 Ratio
Valve Springs:3911068
Balance: Internal
Maximum GM Recommended RPM: 5100
Ignition Timing: Base 10 degrees BTDC, 32 degrees total

Cylinder Head Notes: 7 Bolt style Exhaust Flange Standard, 85' and prior intake manifold bolt pattern. Perimeter bolt style Valve Covers. This head is very similar to the old #882 castings from the 1970's.

Block Notes:Block is drilled for drivers and/or passenger side oil dipsticks, plugs are included to plug unused dipstick tube hole. Clutch Z-Bar hole is drilled and tapped for manual trans applications. Engine mount holes drilled and tapped for both early-style front motor mount brackets and the normal side motor mounts.

Package Includes:

• Fully GM assembled long block
• Stamped steel OE valve covers
• Oil pump, pick-up and oil pan
• Front timing cover
• Aluminum Performance Intake
• 600CFM Holley Carb with Electric Choke
• Steel Chrome 14” Air Cleaner with Chevy Logo
• Performance Fuel Pump with Plumbing to Carb
• HEI Distributor, Plug Wires, Looms and Spark Plugs
• 14” Auto Trans Flexplate
• HD Starter with Bolts
• 6” Harmonic Balancer
• PCV Valve and Chrome Breather
• Oil Filter and Adapter
• Drivers Side LH Oil Dipstick and Tube

Warranty:


General Motors limited 1 year Parts Replacement Warranty. Warranty does NOT include labor.



TH350 transmission package designed for use with Chevrolet SBC 350CID 260HP universal crate engine.

Performance Automatic, in its never ending quest to stay on top of today’s need for modern day transmission packages, has come up with an addition to its popular Street Smart Packages. The Street Smart Systems are exclusively designed to complement selected GMPP Crate Engines. The GMPP Crate Engines have been increasingly popular with Street Rodders and Muscle Car enthusiasts alike. Performance Automatic has developed customized overdrive transmission packages and has made it easy to pick a combination for your vehicle. The series packages have been designed for both performance and street ability. These kits also include all the necessary transmission components to complete the installation.

The TH350 kit utilized the Street Smart Converter that is designed to give that “stop light to stop light” performance and to stretch that tank full of gas running down the highway in lock up. The series also provides you with a complete hardware kit consisting of all the nuts and bolts needed for your particular combination.

Transmissions are specifically designed and tuned for use behind most of the Chevrolet Performance crate engines. Transmissions include the proper torque converter, beefed-up internal components, shift patterns and pressures to match the Chevrolet Performance crate engines cam profile, HP rating, torque curve and RPM range. Each transmission is dyno tested.

Transmission Package Includes :

• Stage 1 TH350 transmission
• Torque Converter
• Transmission Dipstick and Tube
• Kick-Down Cable
• Converter Dust Shield
• HD Transmission Mount
• HD Aluminum Pan
• Steel orficed modulator vacuum line
• Speedo Gear and Housing
• Complete mounting hardware kit and instructions

Warranty:
Limited 2 year warranty. Click on Document tab above for full details.
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1970 GMC Sierra Grande CST SWB Fleetside "Texas Touch"
Build Thread:http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=591372

1972 GMC Sierra Grande LWB "Hugger"
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=573088

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows"
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:42 AM   #8
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Re: Crate Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperC10Tex View Post
Thank you SIR!!!



Yes, I agree about the 700R ($5700)......the $4300 is a turn key and full drop in package. Below is what all the $4300 packages comes with...Any opinions?

This turn-key GM 350CID engine comes fully assembled using a brand new (not remanufactured) GM 10067353 350cid 4 bolt main long block. We have preinstalled all name brand components needed to make this engine ready to run, right out of the crate.



Specifications:
Power: 260 HP @4300 RPM, 350 ft. lbs. of torque @ 3600 RPM
Displacement: 350 CID, 5.7L
Bore x Stroke: 4.00” x 3.48”
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Recommended Fuel: 87 Octane
Block: Cast Iron, 2 piece rear seal, 4-bolt main caps.
Crankshaft: Nodular Iron
Connecting Rods: Powdered Metal Steel
Pistons: Cast Aluminum
Camshaft: Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Cam Lift: .383” Intake / .401” exhaust
Cam Duration @ .050”: 194 deg. Intake / 202 deg. Exhaust
Lobe Separation: 112 Degree
Cylinder Heads: Cast Iron, 3/8” pressed in rocker studs.
Combustion Chamber: 76cc
Valves: .194” Intake/ 1.50” Exhaust
Rocker Arms: Stamped Steel, 1.5:1 Ratio
Valve Springs:3911068
Balance: Internal
Maximum GM Recommended RPM: 5100
Ignition Timing: Base 10 degrees BTDC, 32 degrees total

Cylinder Head Notes: 7 Bolt style Exhaust Flange Standard, 85' and prior intake manifold bolt pattern. Perimeter bolt style Valve Covers. This head is very similar to the old #882 castings from the 1970's.

Block Notes:Block is drilled for drivers and/or passenger side oil dipsticks, plugs are included to plug unused dipstick tube hole. Clutch Z-Bar hole is drilled and tapped for manual trans applications. Engine mount holes drilled and tapped for both early-style front motor mount brackets and the normal side motor mounts.

Package Includes:

• Fully GM assembled long block
• Stamped steel OE valve covers
• Oil pump, pick-up and oil pan
• Front timing cover
• Aluminum Performance Intake
• 600CFM Holley Carb with Electric Choke
• Steel Chrome 14” Air Cleaner with Chevy Logo
• Performance Fuel Pump with Plumbing to Carb
• HEI Distributor, Plug Wires, Looms and Spark Plugs
• 14” Auto Trans Flexplate
• HD Starter with Bolts
• 6” Harmonic Balancer
• PCV Valve and Chrome Breather
• Oil Filter and Adapter
• Drivers Side LH Oil Dipstick and Tube

Warranty:


General Motors limited 1 year Parts Replacement Warranty. Warranty does NOT include labor.



TH350 transmission package designed for use with Chevrolet SBC 350CID 260HP universal crate engine.

Performance Automatic, in its never ending quest to stay on top of today’s need for modern day transmission packages, has come up with an addition to its popular Street Smart Packages. The Street Smart Systems are exclusively designed to complement selected GMPP Crate Engines. The GMPP Crate Engines have been increasingly popular with Street Rodders and Muscle Car enthusiasts alike. Performance Automatic has developed customized overdrive transmission packages and has made it easy to pick a combination for your vehicle. The series packages have been designed for both performance and street ability. These kits also include all the necessary transmission components to complete the installation.

The TH350 kit utilized the Street Smart Converter that is designed to give that “stop light to stop light” performance and to stretch that tank full of gas running down the highway in lock up. The series also provides you with a complete hardware kit consisting of all the nuts and bolts needed for your particular combination.

Transmissions are specifically designed and tuned for use behind most of the Chevrolet Performance crate engines. Transmissions include the proper torque converter, beefed-up internal components, shift patterns and pressures to match the Chevrolet Performance crate engines cam profile, HP rating, torque curve and RPM range. Each transmission is dyno tested.

Transmission Package Includes :

• Stage 1 TH350 transmission
• Torque Converter
• Transmission Dipstick and Tube
• Kick-Down Cable
• Converter Dust Shield
• HD Transmission Mount
• HD Aluminum Pan
• Steel orficed modulator vacuum line
• Speedo Gear and Housing
• Complete mounting hardware kit and instructions

Warranty:
Limited 2 year warranty. Click on Document tab above for full details.
If you are ok with a 3-speed auto, that doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. That engine as a bare long block is about $1500, add all the extras to it I'm figuring $2300 if you bargain shop. $2k for a new auto trans with converter doesn't sound too bad.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:02 PM   #9
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Re: Crate Engine?

Since you plan on having the work done by a shop, sticking with the th350 is probably the way to go... unless you own a bunch of oil wells. Converting to the 700r4 is not a simple job, and they are gonna charge some serious money.

I've had, (am still having,) a real good experience with my Goodwrench Crate 350 that went in in 2000. Si, es bueno Mexican motor!
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:24 PM   #10
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Re: Crate Engine?

Two things,

1) watch closely that they aren't using cheap stuff on the accessories. Performance aluminum intake just screams Chinese knock off. I'd feel a lot better if it had the word Holley, Edelbrock, or Weiand in front of it. If they go cheap on something like that, they're gonna go cheap on everything.

2) you can sit down with a Summit catalog and kill that price by a long shot and assemble top of the line components to complete the long block. I'm talking Edelbrock intake and other name brand stuff. The engine is only 1400 dollars itself. In Weatherford Texas, you'll find Phoenix Transmission which is a world caliber trans shop. They will sell you a top of the line Th350 for about 1000 with all of the trick and pretty stuff on it. They are the guys that build the transmissions for the big guys like Treypanier and Boyd (R.I.P).
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:16 PM   #11
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Re: Crate Engine?

another member showed me this deal. check out the last engine on the page. $1899 for a 300hp 350 with intake and free shipping.http://paceperformance.com/c-142529-...e-engines.html
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:43 PM   #12
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Re: Crate Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmc1986 View Post
another member showed me this deal. check out the last engine on the page. $1899 for a 300hp 350 with intake and free shipping.http://paceperformance.com/c-142529-...e-engines.html
Thats the one I have been considering.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:48 PM   #13
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Re: Crate Engine?

Those GM crate engines are a bargain, but they range in price dramatically. I have the 260hp 350. It had an unknown number of miles on it when I purchased the truck. It smoked really bad and I had to have the heads rebuilt. One was cracked, and 15 of 16 valves had bad seals. I figure it was probably from it overheating and I don't contribute it to the manufacturing company. Also, it still had the honing crosshatch in the cylinders, so I don't think it was ran hard or beat down. I did however run the torque sequence on the main caps just for security, and one bolt head was cracked and sheered off around 15 ft lbs. Take all this with a grain of salt, and hopefully others can chime in with much better stories about these crates. All that being said I'd strongly weigh the price vs an LS swap, or even a rebuild.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:01 PM   #14
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Re: Crate Engine?

Why not look into an LS swap and have it all. Like driving a new truck and FI will get the milage way down from normally aspirated engines.
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:09 PM   #15
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Re: Crate Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkermc View Post
Why not look into an LS swap and have it all. Like driving a new truck and FI will get the milage way down from normally aspirated engines.
Not everybody has an appreciation for computer controlled engines.

Personally I would never do that with an old truck. Seems blasphemous to me. Not to mention, I'm still getting a used engine with an unknown history if I do a swap like that, or the cost seriously balloons to get a new or rebuilt LS.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:38 PM   #16
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Re: Crate Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer View Post
Not everybody has an appreciation for computer controlled engines.

Personally I would never do that with an old truck. Seems blasphemous to me. Not to mention, I'm still getting a used engine with an unknown history if I do a swap like that, or the cost seriously balloons to get a new or rebuilt LS.
Fully agree, plus they don't get that much better fuel mileage anyway my 06 got around 15mpg as did my 02.
My old square body had a mild built 350/350 and did the same and had better power.

4300 Is not bad at all IMO if they are putting it in.
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:40 PM   #17
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Re: Crate Engine?

Oh, 4300 installed?
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:44 PM   #18
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Re: Crate Engine?

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Originally Posted by CC69Rat View Post
Oh, 4300 installed?
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No, what he was looking at is this:

http://paceperformance.com/i-1316423...s-package.html
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:19 PM   #19
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Re: Crate Engine?

seems high to me. you can get a fully built by Jake th400 for under 1500. You should be able to get a stock th400 for under a grand all day.
Also I dont see how its turn key
no alternator, no starter, no waterpump, no fan, no fan clutch
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:42 PM   #20
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Re: Crate Engine?

I'm about to drop this ZZ4 crate into my 72. Delivered to my house, carb to pan, and serpentine system with A/C compressor, about $5,100.


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Old 05-15-2013, 11:32 PM   #21
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Re: Crate Engine?

It doesn't look like you are bargain shopping, but I found this crate motor from Jegs for $1500 with free shipping. I was all set to buy one, until the tax man took all my motor money.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...oductId=752506

I'm not a motor guy, so dont know how this compares to the $1800 Pace Perf motor mentioned earlier.

Let us know what you decide to do!
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:41 PM   #22
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Re: Crate Engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpcgmc View Post
It doesn't look like you are bargain shopping, but I found this crate motor from Jegs for $1500 with free shipping. I was all set to buy one, until the tax man took all my motor money.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...oductId=752506

I'm not a motor guy, so dont know how this compares to the $1800 Pace Perf motor mentioned earlier.

Let us know what you decide to do!
That's a hell of a deal with free shipping! Suppose it pays to look around. Good find.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:55 AM   #23
SuperC10Tex
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Re: Crate Engine?

Thanks guys for the on going feedback...I am looking at the package below ($4600), and spoke with a shop that would do the engine and tranny swap for around a $1000. Let me know what you guys think?





Fully Assembled "Brand New" 350CID 260HP with Turbo 350 Auto Transmission Package

This turn-key GM 350CID engine comes fully assembled using a brand new (not remanufactured) GM 10067353 350cid 4 bolt main long block. We have preinstalled all name brand components needed to make this engine ready to run, right out of the crate.



Specifications:
Power: 260 HP @4300 RPM, 350 ft. lbs. of torque @ 3600 RPM
Displacement: 350 CID, 5.7L
Bore x Stroke: 4.00” x 3.48”
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Recommended Fuel: 87 Octane
Block: Cast Iron, 2 piece rear seal, 4-bolt main caps.
Crankshaft: Nodular Iron
Connecting Rods: Powdered Metal Steel
Pistons: Cast Aluminum
Camshaft: Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Cam Lift: .383” Intake / .401” exhaust
Cam Duration @ .050”: 194 deg. Intake / 202 deg. Exhaust
Lobe Separation: 112 Degree
Cylinder Heads: Cast Iron, 3/8” pressed in rocker studs.
Combustion Chamber: 76cc
Valves: .194” Intake/ 1.50” Exhaust
Rocker Arms: Stamped Steel, 1.5:1 Ratio
Valve Springs:3911068
Balance: Internal
Maximum GM Recommended RPM: 5100
Ignition Timing: Base 10 degrees BTDC, 32 degrees total

Cylinder Head Notes: 7 Bolt style Exhaust Flange Standard, 85' and prior intake manifold bolt pattern. Perimeter bolt style Valve Covers. This head is very similar to the old #882 castings from the 1970's.

Block Notes:Block is drilled for drivers and/or passenger side oil dipsticks, plugs are included to plug unused dipstick tube hole. Clutch Z-Bar hole is drilled and tapped for manual trans applications. Engine mount holes drilled and tapped for both early-style front motor mount brackets and the normal side motor mounts.

Package Includes:

• Fully GM assembled long block
• Stamped steel OE valve covers
• Oil pump, pick-up and oil pan
• Front timing cover
• Aluminum Performance Intake
• 600CFM Holley Carb with Electric Choke
• Steel Chrome 14” Air Cleaner with Chevy Logo
• Performance Fuel Pump with Plumbing to Carb
• HEI Distributor, Plug Wires, Looms and Spark Plugs
• 14” Auto Trans Flexplate
• HD Starter with Bolts
• 6” Harmonic Balancer
• PCV Valve and Chrome Breather
• Oil Filter and Adapter
• Drivers Side LH Oil Dipstick and Tube


TH350 Automatic Transmission Package Includes:

• Hughes Performance TH350 Street & Strip Trans
• 2000 stall torque converter
• Trans cooler, fittings, lines and mounting hardware
• Torque converter dust shield
• Locking dipstick and tube
• HD Trans mount
• Factory orificed modulator tube
• Bell housing to engine bolts& converter bolts
• Torque converter to flexplate bolts
• Slip yoke
• Kick-down cable & carb linkage
__________________
1970 GMC Sierra Grande CST SWB Fleetside "Texas Touch"
Build Thread:http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=591372

1972 GMC Sierra Grande LWB "Hugger"
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=573088

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows"
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Old 05-18-2013, 06:05 AM   #24
special-K
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Re: Crate Engine?

That's a crazy high price. You don't need a new TH350. Sounds like that's adding over $1,000 to the package. Those transmissions last and last. Just rebuild a used one or buy a fresh and upgraded 700r4. You can get a lot more motor for that money or get the GM 290 hp crate for way way less. GM Parts Direct sells those for under $2,200

Not all crate engines use new everything. Many out there use "seasoned" blocks,which is perfectly fine. My machinist like the Chinese aluminum intake knock-offs over the Edelbrocks. They aren't overpriced,but more importantly,they mate up better. No bull. He says he has to plane most Eldelbrocks and never had an issue with the El Cheapos. This guy is top-notch and those who are in the know use him. He doesn't advertise,his shop is at his house,and he's the mechanic's mechanic. I can have a 300hp small block rebuild done for $1,200
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Old 05-18-2013, 06:39 PM   #25
54belair
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Re: Crate Engine?

For My area of the country----that would still be high--even if it was an installed price.
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