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Old 10-07-2013, 08:02 PM   #1
Sharps40
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John Lee's Door Seal, Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

But, lookie what the big brown truck brought!!!

All the soft goods needed to seal (I have the door frame rubber already, it came w/Ol John Lee!) and eliminate all the leaks and rattles in the doors.


Last edited by Sharps40; 10-08-2013 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #2
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Okay, the passenger side window seal debacle. Well, actually, it went well and I didn't break anything. But, I learned a lot, specially about the proper order of assembly cause had to do a couple do overs to get one part under another and a work around or too for the same reason. But its all in there like factory and snug, no rattles at all! Vent window rubber is sitting in place with the window closed for a week till it conformes some and then I may have to trim a slight bevel on the extra thick vertical bar rubber to allow the window to close easily. More on that another day.

Here we go...roll the window down and pull the 5 screws holding the vent window assembly in place, remove the vent window assembly.



Wiggle the door glass up/down and around to slip the rollers and take it out the top.



Remove the top and bottom screws to pull the window chanel support bar and the window chanel.



I had to warm the screws to ouch temp and quench with soapy water a couple times to back them out w/o chewing up the heads and destroying the screws. What you see on the ground is the crumbled up rotted horizontal felts and the window chanel and its support bar.



Here is the horizontal edges where the felts snap in and out of to wipe the glass as it goes up and down.



Here I'm carefully drilling out the upper rivet on the vent window, this is the upper hinge point...a new rivet comes in a parts kit from LMC.



Lots of PB Blaster and I removed the hardware/spring for the lower wing pivot....I kept the hardware in order and noted the direction the limiting washer (flat edge forward) faces for reassembly later.



The old rotted rubber on the arch just pulls out.


Last edited by Sharps40; 10-08-2013 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:04 PM   #3
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

After pulling the rubber and metal chanel out of the vent window division bar (it wasn't glued) there is some old rotted junk to clean out with a wire brush.



Scrub it out good and clean.



Drilling out the rivets from the old vent window vertical rubber bar is hard...a longer bit would be nice but best bet would be a dental burr on a dremil tool for access at the top and bottom rivets.



I clean out the rubber from the premarked holes in the new vertical vent window rubber with a 1/8" drill bit....slow and easy.



A thin line of rubber trim adhesive on the backside of the vertical vent window rubber and start to position it with rivits thru the backside....the crush side of the rivet goes to the glass side of the rubber.



Tape holds it together for smushing the rivets.



Once the rivets were set (a 1/4" drive extension for a socket wrench fits the head of the rivit and makes a good anvil to set the rivet against) I realized the arc rubber should have went in first as it needs to fit under and behind the vertical rubber bar. Oh well, some soapy water and a bit of careful work and both ends of the arch rubber slipped neatly into place under the now riveted vertical rubber bar.



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Old 10-07-2013, 08:04 PM   #4
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

I cut a section of new channel for installation in the vertical division bar of the vent window assembly. After test fit, I used the rubber to metal trim adhesive to hold it into place.



I temporarily installed the vent window assembly to allow me to measure and trim the window channel and the horizontal window felts. Then I removed the vent window again to make enough room to reinstall the door glass assembly. While I was at it I pulled the riser mechanism, cleaned and lubed it and the rollers and the lower window riser bar. This way, I hope not to break the door down again for maintenace for a long time.



When installing the window channel, don't press too hard in the upper and lower rear corners of the window. There is no support in the corners and you can drive the channel in far enough that the edges of the channel fall behind the inside edges of the door and its hard to get it back out again to reposition it...ask me how I know? Keep the edges of the channel even/flush with the painted edges of the window opening all around. This is a fold up section of rubber channel. It fits plenty snug so I used no adhesive to place it. Its a long one and curved, if I'd have glued it, there'd been a real hellofa mess when I had to remove and reposition for the corners I drove in too deep.



Carefully snap in the inner and outer window felts.

From there I removed the vent window, did the cuss and wiggle dance for 20 minutes with the door glass to put it back on the riser mechanism, rolled it down all the way, reinstalled the vent window assembly and waxed the heck outta the felts and channels and rubber with Johnsons paste wax. Then a function check...all is well. Snug fit. Sealed nicely. No rattles. Might have to adjust the fit of the vent window rubber vertical bar since the new rubber is very thick and so tight that it is difficult to close the vent. But thats another day. Perhaps a week in the sun will warm and form the rubber around the glass a bit better.

I think when doing the DS, I'm gonna install the door glass before installing the horizontal felts. It'll fit with the felts in place but there is high risk of tearing the new felts when pushing it down in. With the window all the way down I should have plenty of room to thumb the felts into their holes and no risk of tearing it up.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:05 PM   #5
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

I had new door rubber that came with Ol John Lee. Never used it cause his factory door rubber was stapled in ...didn't want to yank all them stables. So, pullin the door rubber of of John Lee Jr, its glued in from the factory. About as much work to remove, maybe more since ya gotta pull and scrape the rubber/glue w/o damagin the paint! But an array of scrapers including a small wood workers gouge to get into the corners and the old rubber is off. I left the factory glue line in place, its on the faces. I'll attach the new rubber to the clean lip of the door frame and if needed (but I doubt it) add a dollop here and there in faces of the corners later.

The clean up of the Passenger side.



Down in the lower groove, lots of years of trash....vacuum and a brush to get it all out. This area was not glued at the factory and I won't glue here...the door sill holds it in place and the lower corners too. It'll let me come back and weld a patch into the rocker later...you'll see it at the front corner of the door, just below the hinge piller...



For now, a bit of primer and paint to slow the rusting, at least on this side.



Test fitting the new rubber and no glue and No Cutting yet! Did that on an old 37 Dodge and had to buy new rubber, too short after glueing!



Test fit is good, a whole foot left over for the final trim. Prepping the battlefield. Some good sticking freezer tape to hold the rubber in place while the trim adhesive kicks over.

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Old 10-07-2013, 08:05 PM   #6
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Working from the top corner down, adhesive in the groove of the rubber to grap the lip of the frame...not stretching it too much (pulls away from the frame) nor crunching it too much (wrinkles in the rubber on the inside of the cab) I press gently and tape in place every few inches.



Once the forward piller is done all the way down to the joint between the piller and the rocker, I go back to the top and work the back half all the way down to the joint where the striker plate piller joints up with the rocker....at this point, the entire door frame has tape every few inches...I've tweeked the fit as needes while the glue is wet and checked for no wrinkles inside or huge gaps on the outer face between the rubber and the steel. At the bottom, I've trimmed the new rubber about 1" too long.



Carefully, watching the lower corners to make sure they are both snug to the frame, I nibble back to create a butt joint that I will glue together.



A line of good 3M adhesive on the butt joint, stick it together and tape it till it starts to kick over....meantime clean up the kick plate with a bit of 0000 steel wool and comet. It won't take off the rust but it'll remove the stains and make it look good. I don't want a spanky new one....this ain't no Riddler.



The kick plate installed to hold the rubber and lower corners in place. Looks much nicer with all the lil boot stains gone. Just a whisker of shine and some rust in the corners so ya know its original 1965 not China repo.



Now, back it out into the sun, door open, let it all kick over a few hours while I clean up the garage and tools. Then, Drivers Side Door gets done but I gotta mow lawns and wash dogs today, so.....till next time.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:07 PM   #7
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Finished up rerubbering the drivers window and vent wing yesterday. Some things I learned as this side only took 2 hours vice all day....I learned on the Passenger door, a lot!

Remove the vent window first with the door glass all the way down...very easy to remove the door glass then. Subsequantly, install the door glass first and the rebuilt vent window last, very easy to get the door glass in that way. The door glass goes on and off the riser rollers quite nicely about the midpoint of the door if you have the vent window out of the way, simply slide the door glass on and off the front roller raising and lowering the rollers as needed to slip the rear roller in to the riser chanel...quick easy, 12 second job once ya figure it out.

The LMC vent window rubber is plenty thick. I'll have to bevel some edges for the wings to close without haveing to go outside the truck, press the rubber in/down and lever the wing shut.

The LMC divider chanel, felts and window channe seem to be very nice quality too. Not too thick, easy to install.

The tight corner of the vent window is tight, really make sure the new vent rubber is bottomed all the way to max your room for the vent window to open and close.

Yep, install the vent window arc rubber first and the vertical bar rubber last...much easier. Installing this way means its even harder to set the rivits....A home made rivit staker with a long U-shaped handle to clear the vent window arc would be nifty....setting these rivets is a 4 handed job. Other option would be setting these rubbers with fine head screws and nuts if fine enough, gun screws come to mind. If I was doin a bunch of these I'd find a way to use aluminum pop rivets putting the crush side on the division bar side and finishing up by smushing the crush side fully into the division bar countersinks.

I used johnsons paste floor wax to lube up the vertical divider and window channel and the edges of the door glass that fit these channels. Makes it a bunch easyer to seat the window in the runners and get it going up/down, etc.

I think I'll be getting some kind of silicon lube for the vent window rubbers to ease the open/close till the rubbers break in a bit/form to the vent wings.

The door glass goes in like slick snot if you don't put the felt channels on the door edges till the very last. Roll the glass all the way down, roll the clips into their slots one at a time useing the flat face of a screwdriver or stiff putty knife to "press them snaps gently" into the holes in the edges. Use care not to rock the blade and chip yer glass, just get yer fingers on back side of yer thin/stiff presser and press the clips home.

You can do the entire job w/o removing the window riser or door latch mechanism. I took my risers out for a good lubeing of the gears and wheels.

Off to the drivers door rubber seal today.

See ya.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:08 PM   #8
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

The DS door rubber is glued and taped to the lip...lettin it sit a few hours before I shut the door for the first time or three. Meantime, its rainin a bit and it looks like weeks of PB Blaster have just freed the rear spring cup bolts. So, in the ever ongoing quest for perfect reliability, looks like I'll get started moveing Ol John Lees shiney new Moog rear coils into place on John Lee Jr. His are a bit tired and saggy on the drivers side. See ya tonight!
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:11 PM   #9
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Its been a couple of months...the first weeks were a bit frustrating....doors took a good slam or two to close and latch...Now they both close solid and no leaks. Unfortunatly, I don't know the brand of the door seals, they came with Ol John Lee and got installed on John Lee Jr...but they are great quality!

As for the LMC kits, I find the window felts leave tar stains on the glass as they continue to fall apart with each up and down of the door glass.

The vent window rubbers from LMC have loosened up a bit, in so far as I can close them now, with two hands and no grease, as the rubber continues to deteriorate and loose bits and chunks.

The window channel the glass rides in? From LMC and no problems, I like it fine. Shop elsewhere for the rest of your door rubber parts, specially the vent window rubber.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:29 PM   #10
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

thanks a million sharps. I have to change out the door glass in my new drivers door and couldnt find a how to, now I know how with pics!
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:18 AM   #11
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

That damn door glass is a wiggle festival...then you do the second door and figure out there's a metal tap to rest it on and when to put in the vent wing and when not to and it all goes together like greased snot on the second one!
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:56 AM   #12
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

You are a rockstar, my friend! I'm currently building my '66 for SEMA, and I came to these damn vent window seals. Almost drilled out the wrong rivets. I know little to nothign about what I am doing. Hopefully it all goes back together. I'm using Steele rubber, its quite a task. I do thank you for being the guinea pig and showing us how it's done.
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:58 AM   #13
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Now that you have done this you should fly around the country as a consultant for the rest of us trying to figure these things out.

Put me down 1st since it was my idea.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:37 AM   #14
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

How bout if I retire and just drive John Lee. Me and the dog will consult for a cold beer, a frostie mug, a chewie bone, a milk crate to sit on and a hot dog or three.

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Old 10-19-2013, 09:38 AM   #15
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garagisti View Post
You are a rockstar, my friend! I'm currently building my '66 for SEMA, and I came to these damn vent window seals. Almost drilled out the wrong rivets. I know little to nothign about what I am doing. Hopefully it all goes back together. I'm using Steele rubber, its quite a task. I do thank you for being the guinea pig and showing us how it's done.
SEMA! Killer! Glad yer not usin LMC Rubber then! I hope yer vent windows open and close without axle grease!
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:24 PM   #16
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

I actually did this install about April 2013. It was october before I broke it out from the build thread into a separate article on installation.

By way of a follow up and report on the LMC products I used for this job.

LMC Felts, inside and outside of the door windows. Holding up pretty well but I did remove the DS outside horizontal felt since it continued to leave tar streaks on the exterior of the window glass that had to be rubbed off with solvent on a weekly basis. The other three felts (inside DS, inside and outside PS) are holding up well and no streaking issues. Assessment: I would not use LMC provided window felts for further repair or on another project truck.

Vent window rivited on vertical rubber: Too thick initially to allow closure of the vents without applying wax. Though window action is somewhat easier, lubricant of this strip from time to time is still required and I must still roll down the windows to wrestle the vent windows fully closed. In addition, though glued and rivited to the vertical post, these rubber strips have become waivy. It is likely I'll have to grind off the high spots or replace them if I ever want to acheive full function of the vent windows (i.e. ease of closure) in the future. Assessment: I would not use LMC provided window vent rivit on rubber strips for further repair or on another project truck.

Long sections of the vent window rubber are not holding up at all. Though the truck is driven daily it is garaged every night. These flexible rubber pieces continue to shed strips of rubber where the vent windows rub on opening and closure, are now cracked and torn at the lower pivot points and cracking badly at the tight lower curve. Assessment: I would not use LMC provided window vent rubbers for further repair or on another project truck.


Felt U channel that the door glass ride up and down in. Daily use for a year of the windows shows no significant deterioration of these U channels. They continue to function and look just fine and I am satisfied with them, both cosmetically and functionally. Assessment: I would use these LMC provided U channels again.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:25 PM   #17
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Glad I found this thread! LOL!
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:43 PM   #18
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Yep. These particular parts is like Gnarled Turds inna Lovely Crystal Party Punch Bowl!
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Old 05-30-2014, 05:28 PM   #19
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Geesh, thanks for posting this. I really need to do the same thing to my truck but for some reason, it is just one of those jobs that I am dreading. Looks like it will pretty much spoil a full day.
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Old 05-30-2014, 05:35 PM   #20
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

It filled a couple days with meaningful and loving cussing time with my ride. But next time I'll prolly just pony up the extra dough and get the lynn steel rubber parts. They were always the best when I was runnin 30s and 40s model dodges as daily drivers and no reason to expect that good quality has changed....but oh my the cash outlay!
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:48 PM   #21
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

This is awesome, have been wanting to do mine for a bit now but was not sure how or where to start, this is perfect. I have all new rubber except the door window channels vent etc and now I can feel a little more confident in replacing them thanks a million. I do have one question though I need to replace my vent window handles and thought it was just an allen screw holding them on but it isnt any idea as to how to remove them?
Thanks
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:31 PM   #22
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Can't say on vent window handles. Mine are worn but functional and I left em be.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:08 PM   #23
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Great write up. Thanks for posting it up. I need to to tackle this on my truck.
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Old 05-30-2014, 08:13 PM   #24
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Re: John Lee's Door Channel, Felt and Vent Rubber Rebuild

Shop the 50 pound heads here on the board before you spend money on rubber and felt. Look for the folks that have had it in place for more than a year and get pics if ya can. I suspect the best stuff is going to be from high end suppliers like steel, etc. I'm almost thinking rubber and felt is a get what ya pay for and if its cheep....its cheep!
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