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-   The 1973 - 1987 Chevrolet & GMC Squarebody Pickups Message Board (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Restoring Rusty (https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=645440)

JacobSchni 03-31-2015 02:01 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
for anyone wanting to see a in depth view of the steering column being taken apart:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/sm...?topic=12525.0

Gregski 03-31-2015 02:19 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7113492)
The sector gear probably took a hit from the lock cylinder falling apart. The parts got to go somewhere and plastic generally loses to metal ;)
True

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7113492)
By the way the hood turned out great!
and thank you

Gregski 03-31-2015 02:26 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
found this page on the interwebs that explains what each wire does on the turn signal switch wiring harness ie the non ignition switch wires that run up the steering column

this isn't the exact part / plug match but the wires seem identical, so it might could help somebody out, I know it beats the wiring schematics for me anyways

white - stop lamp switch (what is that?)

green - right rear turn signal
yellow - left rear turn signal

purple - turn flasher (what is that?)

brown - hazard flasher

dark blue - right front turn signal
light blue - left front turn signal

black - horn

Gregski 03-31-2015 02:40 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
this shows what the pins on the ignition switch are, mine doesn't use all of them but the ones that it uses match

Gregski 03-31-2015 02:47 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Diagram of the two plugs the white one and the black one that plug in to the ignition switch and what they do


WHITE CONNECTOR

Pink - Start & Run (connect this to the ignition) ... Pink is ignition, pink is ignition, pink...

Purple - Start (connect this to the starter solenoid)... Purple is starter, purple is starter...

Red - This is the Battery connection bringing power into the switch. Red is usually power, red...

Brown - Accessory & Run (Accessories....)


BLACK CONNECTOR

Red - This is the Battery connection bringing power into the switch.

Orange - Run (connect this to power anything in the Run state) I also have a Dark Brown / White Stripe wire going here, not sure what it's for

Light Brown / Black Stripe - Start position switches this lead to ground

bnoon 03-31-2015 12:54 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
The colors match and the pins themselves match, but the plastic connectors can be slightly different between the years. I pulled pins from the '82 tilt column and combined the wiring from my broken '74 column and everything connected and functioned properly. Aside from one slightly infected puncture wound from a steel pick tool while removing a pin, everything went smooth with that part of it. Post '96 of my build thread if you'd like to take a gander, but pictures were slim at the time because I had such a bad time pulling my old column out since I had never done it before.

rusty76 03-31-2015 03:48 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Well I'll be.

Gregski 04-01-2015 12:24 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
ok fellas help me out here (while we wait for the ignition sector gear to show up) knowing what we know now about the rainbow of colors turn signal switch plug and wiring harness:

How do we activate / test each component?

For example what do we supply to the GREEN wire to make the right rear turn signal turn on?

Do we give it positive power, or do we connect negative to it?

I ask because to activate the horn BLACK wire I have to connect negative to it, but to activate the turn signals GREEN, YELLOW, LIGHT BLUE, DARK BLUE, I have to give positive power to it.

No idea how to activate the other ones, WHITE, PURPLE, BROWN. Please enlighten me in the ways of electric current flow.

Titomars 04-01-2015 01:24 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7114743)
ok fellas help me out here (while we wait for the ignition sector gear to show up) knowing what we know now about the rainbow of colors turn signal switch plug and wiring harness:

How do we activate / test each component?

For example what do we supply to the GREEN wire to make the right rear turn signal turn on?

Do we give it positive power, or do we connect negative to it?

I ask because to activate the horn BLACK wire I have to connect negative to it, but to activate the turn signals GREEN, YELLOW, LIGHT BLUE, DARK BLUE, I have to give positive power to it.

No idea how to activate the other ones, WHITE, PURPLE, BROWN. Please enlighten me in the ways of electric current flow.
The horn at the column is always a ground on older American vehicles the lead grounds through the horn contact via the steering shaft/column which in turn activates the relay sending power to the horn itself.
As far as the turn signal and hazard wiring goes.... they are all positive.
I am a retired automotive electrician the only test one would do at that connection would be to trouble shoot a single circuit not working as it is suppose to. generally it is fairly obvious if the switch is bad.
For the basics you need to know which way the current flows. all circuits form a loop you need to determine where the part you are testing is in that loop. one way is to figure out where the load (light) is in the loop. Then figure out where the control (switch) is. If the control is in front of the load its positive, if behind it is negative. so lets apply this to your horn circuit. the horn is grounded to the chassis by mounting. the green lead goes back to the relay. A relay is nothing more than a switch. the other side of the relay is fed with battery voltage. to energize the relay we need a control circuit. power enters the relay as normal battery voltage but to energize it we need to complete the circuit. so from the control side power goes in and the ground goes up the column through the T/S switch to the horn contact when you press the horn it ground the black wire which energizes the relay and the horn blows.
I am sure this is all clear as mud. I do better as a teacher in person ;)

JacobSchni 04-01-2015 08:52 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
i also want to know what the white wire is.

Titomars 04-01-2015 08:59 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobSchni (Post 7115813)
i also want to know what the white wire is.
The white wire is the feed for the brake light (stop light). It comes from the stop light switch and goes into the T/S. From there it goes on its way to the rear lights

Gregski 04-01-2015 09:18 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobSchni (Post 7113529)
for anyone wanting to see a in depth view of the steering column being taken apart:
http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/sm...?topic=12525.0
yeah but not even he can show me how the Switch Rack Preload Spring goes back in

Gregski 04-01-2015 11:14 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7115856)
yeah but not even he can show me how the Switch Rack Preload Spring goes back in
OK, so I figured it out it goes behind this switch rack to push it against the plastic spector gear better/firmly

Gregski 04-01-2015 11:32 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy
 
1 Attachment(s)
ok so let me share with you the anatomy of the ignition switch assembly

first of all it is mechanical and not electronic, say what? yes the actual ignition switch does have wires plugged into it, but it is operated / manipulated mechanically

so it all starts with you putting the Key in the Ignition Lock Cylinder (as opposed to the door lock cylinder) notice I did not say what we all have heard andy maybe even said "Put the key in the ignition" umm no or worse "Put the key in the ignition switch"

On our trucks the key goes into a Lock Cylinder and there are no wires (at least on mine) that plug into there, zero, nada, zilch

the Lock Cylinder connects to a plastic gear called an Ignition Switch Sector which looks like a half circle with teeth on it [pronounced "The Part That Usually Fails"]

The Sector Gear connects to the Switch Rack Assembly made out of what seems like the world's finest shinny pot metal, kinda like a rack and pinion steering concept a round ball makes a 2x4 go side to side or up and down concept

The Rack connects to a Switch Rod, basically about a foot long metal coat hanger looking thing with two hooks one at each end, this works like a push \ pull device

So far we covered five components, Key, Cylinder, Sector, Rack, and Rod and no wires to speak of, see MECHANICAL

finally the Rod connects to the actual Ignition Switch, now this switch actually has two funky looking plastic connectors which plug into it, in my case one plug is white and the other black yours may differ

So I like to think of this as an old lazy man sitting in his lazy boy and using a broom stick to turn the light switch off and on located just out of reach on the wall next to him ~ how's that for an analogy

And this my friends is why these vehicles were / are so easy to steal, and I speak from experience... no I do not steal cars, I had one stolen. You see all you have to do is get ahold of that metal rod maybe cut it and push it down and whalla vroom vroom vroom truck is running

Gregski 04-01-2015 11:35 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
here's another look at the Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy with all the parts separated out a bit and with close ups to see how they interlock together

I found this interesting and hope it helps somebody out, I find beauty in the simplicity of these wonderful machines

Gregski 04-01-2015 11:42 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
3 Attachment(s)
size does matter, here's wishing this thing was three inches shorter

Titomars 04-02-2015 12:01 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7116085)

So I like to think of this as an old lazy man sitting in his lazy boy and using a broom stick to turn the light switch off and on located just out of reach on the wall next to him ~ how's that for an analogy

And this my friends is why these vehicles were / are so easy to steal, and I speak from experience... no I do not steal cars, I had one stolen. You see all you have to do is get ahold of that metal rod maybe cut it and push it down and whalla vroom vroom vroom truck is running
You have to look back at cars that still had ignition switches on the dash. Manufacturers were forced to comply with certain anti theft devices and the locking steering column was number one. So the lock is housed in the column to activate the steering wheel lock. The only problem was the modern ignition switch has too many wires attached to fit directly to the cylinder inside the column. So this was the way they worked around the problem and conform to the new laws.

To steal one..... You would not cut the rod. While you can start it that way, it does not bypass the steering wheel lock. The easiest and most effective way to steal a vehicle of the late 60's and 70's is to just use a slide hammer with a screw in the end. Then just thread it directly into the cylinder key slot and pull the cylinder. After that you can use a common screwdriver to twist the sector and work the ignition.

Gregski 04-02-2015 12:14 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7116114)
To steal one..... You would not cut the rod. While you can start it that way, it does not bypass the steering wheel lock.
See, I would not make a good car thief, lol, thanks for the history of development it was a neat time for sure, now cars are just appliances, borring

enaberif 04-02-2015 12:20 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Christ at the point you have that steering column I'd be ripping it out and shortening it the 3" you need lol.

Titomars 04-02-2015 12:46 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7116123)
See, I would not make a good car thief, lol, thanks for the history of development it was a neat time for sure, now cars are just appliances, borring
Hah !!! I thought I was the only person calling today's vehicles "Appliances". You know I remember a time when a car Divisions offerings for a specific year created excitement. The buyer had so many choices. Now everything looks the same regardless of brand.

Titomars 04-02-2015 12:52 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy
 
deleted, double post

rich weyand 04-02-2015 02:29 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Ignition Switch Assembly Anatomy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titomars (Post 7116145)
Hah !!! I thought I was the only person calling today's vehicles "Appliances". You know I remember a time when a car Divisions offerings for a specific year created excitement. The buyer had so many choices. Now everything looks the same regardless of brand.
Yeah, they all look like jelly beans. Even the pickup trucks. Then someone puts a tiny crease in the sheet metal down the side of a new model and all the car mags get chubbies over it. Losers.

rich weyand 04-02-2015 02:41 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7116099)
size does matter, here's wishing this thing was three inches shorter
That's what she said. ;)

I felt the same way when I first got my truck five years ago, but haven't felt that way in years. It was a different driving style then, not just in our trucks. You can hang your arm on the window sill (now they are all up to your ears) and steer with two fingers on the highway. You can palm the wheel around the corners in town. You can have your right hand in your lap on the highway and steer with your fingers from there.

The whole European style, rack and pinion, small wheel, high steering effort, hands at 10 and 2 driving style requires the wheel to be further out in front of you so you can get some leverage on it, and you need most of your arm length just to reach them. The car mags all thought this was great when they took the cars to the track, and that's what I preferred on autocross courses 35-40 years ago myself.

But I used to do a lot of cross-country driving in domestic cars in the 1970s, and I think the common driving position then was much easier and less fatiguing for off-track driving.

greg64 04-02-2015 09:22 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich weyand (Post 7116220)
That's what she said. ;)

I felt the same way when I first got my truck five years ago, but haven't felt that way in years. It was a different driving style then, not just in our trucks. You can hang your arm on the window sill (now they are all up to your ears) and steer with two fingers on the highway. You can palm the wheel around the corners in town. You can have your right hand in your lap on the highway and steer with your fingers from there.

The whole European style, rack and pinion, small wheel, high steering effort, hands at 10 and 2 driving style requires the wheel to be further out in front of you so you can get some leverage on it, and you need most of your arm length just to reach them. The car mags all thought this was great when they took the cars to the track, and that's what I preferred on autocross courses 35-40 years ago myself.

But I used to do a lot of cross-country driving in domestic cars in the 1970s, and I think the common driving position then was much easier and less fatiguing for off-track driving.
I'm with you guys on new car/truck style, or the lack of it. Good aerodynamics have been the death of style. Plus people wanted their cars quieter, and that's pretty hard to achieve with style (air buffeting sound).

And I'll also agree that the 70s driving position was more comfortable. I've driven my truck across Canada about 6 times now. That's about 36,000 miles. It's really comfortable, just noisy. The only real problem is the self-retracting seat belts, but I have a bandaid for that.

But about the steering wheel position, I think most race cars are setup with the wheel close to the driver's chest to *increase* their steering strength. Just look at nascar cars. I think the wheels were moved away from the drivers as soon as air bags came on the scene. My guess is the manufacturers are worried about the injuries that might be caused by having the steering wheel too close to the person's chest when it deploys.

rusty76 04-02-2015 09:58 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
I drive a toaster everyday to work. It only does lightly toasted to burnt and that's it. It has AC, Power steering and a radio. That's it. No fancy power windows that mess up later in life or those doomaflogees that tell you when you are close to somebody. It don't even have carpet, lol. No extended cab or crew cab either. So basic Terminex probably thinks it's one of their trucks......

Gregski 04-03-2015 01:56 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty76 (Post 7117354)
So basic Terminex probably thinks it's one of their trucks......
Best line eva!!!

Gregski 04-03-2015 01:58 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Steering Column
 
1 Attachment(s)
So got the steering column back together and now we can get back to business

Gregski 04-03-2015 01:48 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaplain (Post 7117669)
As usual. Nice job sir. Thanks for another tutorial.
You're welcome I appreciate the kind words

Gregski 04-03-2015 01:50 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
1 Attachment(s)
I just had to get the truck out of the garage and snap some pics of the newly painted hood, not bad I think

motornut 04-03-2015 03:41 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7118101)
I just had to get the truck out of the garage and snap some pics of the newly painted hood, not bad I think
yup,looks good

68Timber 04-03-2015 05:14 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregski (Post 7118101)
I just had to get the truck out of the garage and snap some pics of the newly painted hood, not bad I think
You've really turned the corner, that pic made me go back and check it against page one. Looks great.

Gregski 04-03-2015 05:42 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUISER (Post 7118304)
You've really turned the corner, that pic made me go back and check it against page one. Looks great.
thank you so much I didn't even think of going that far back, LOL that's a good idea, a little comparison never hurt nobody

Gregski 04-03-2015 05:46 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
and here's another look at then and now

Note: the crinkle in the front bumper is from using a yellow tow strap to pull the truck home one night when it wouldn't start, nothing a 2x4 and a floor jack won't bend back out

My registration may be coming up here soon, so who here thinks I should punt on the rusty old blue license plates and get shinny brand new white ones?

Gregski 04-03-2015 05:54 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
ok so the goal for this month is to actually fix some things before doing any more cosmetic stuff ie painting or fun stuff ie lowering the truck, so here is our short to do list:

1. fix rear brakes (see sister thread Tires Squel When I Brake - Why?)

2. replace or fix left headlight

3. fix left rear turn signal

4. check out the lifter / rocker arm ticking noise

5. refresh the power steering

6. fix hazard signals

7. get the AM radio working (yeah baby AM mono!)

LSX408 04-03-2015 06:45 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Looking good!

Gregski 04-03-2015 08:45 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motornut (Post 7118202)
yup,looks good
thank you

rgunlock 04-03-2015 09:37 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
All seem like do-able goals for a month! Truck is coming right along and looking good.

Titomars 04-03-2015 11:42 PM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
Like night and day, Gregski. Keep up the awesome work. :c2:

Gregski 04-04-2015 02:14 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty
 
2 Attachment(s)
so got the ball rolling with all new rear brake components, drums, shoes, and hardware from PepBoys, went there to have my old drums turned and it turned out there was not enough meat on them so had to get new ones

the ProStop hardware kit did not include all of the replacement springs, not end of the world, but a bit disappointing (three springs are not included for each side)

Gregski 04-04-2015 02:16 AM
Re: Restoring Rusty - Rear Brakes
 
2 Attachment(s)
as always we clean the old parts before re using them, and there is a good reason for that, keep scrolling (LOL)

one side still dirty, the other already cleaned


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