To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I'm seriously thinking of converting my truck from the ol' Rochester carb to Sniper EFI system. Reasons include; not dealing with mixture screws, idle speed, hard cold starting, seemingly dealing with the unknown witchcraft of carburetorisms.
My weakness for sure I admit it, carbs have never been my thing, other repairs / rebuilds no problem.
Question is, those of you that have made this switch, any recommendations, any feedback? Is it worth the cost?
Truck is 1972 GMC K20, pic attached for no real reason....other than I love the thing!

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Interesting post, I will be sure to follow. I have often wondered the same.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Also hitching a ride, as I have no experience with them either.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I am assuming this truck has a SBC, not a big block. If using a SBC, I would try replacing the Rochester with an Edelbrock 1406. My research and discussions with many owners has found that the 1406 is easy to initially set up and is rock solid after it is set. The big bonus is that it is about $800 cheaper than a Sniper set-up.

I am not trying to dissuade you from installing the Sniper, just pointing out an alternative. If you go with the Sniper, I would love to follow your progress and how you install it.

Cheers!

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Thanks 68 C10, I had also considered that option as I did that very swap on my last 1964 C10 and the Edelbrock did work flawlessly, so that's still an option.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Oh and yes it is a SBC 350 with just over 100k miles on it. Will be doing a rebuild on it soon.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If your carbuerated engine is hard starting cold it's not tuned correctly. A $30 carb rebuild kit & learning to properly tune an engine is still the best option. Way cheaper even than the edelbrock mentioned above. Also that Quadrajet is a much better carb than an edelbrock any day.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

So you don't like carbs but you'd consider removing the factory carb that has been optimized for your engine by GM and in its place put something that is going to require more fiddling with to optimize for your set up. Why?

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

.

I've put 10k+ miles over 7 years on an MSD Atomic I EFI. Only real issue was a failed IAC valve. Easy replacement. Holley now owns MSD and is marketing the MSD Atomic II, which is essentially a clone of the sniper so I would not recommend that.

The original MSD product, the Atomic I (original) is still being sold by MSD/Holley:

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...tomic_efi_tbi/

My install was the full kit with return line fuel setup. Still running everything original except for the IAC (TBI, pump, regulator, injectors and lines).

Hth,

-klb

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

So you had a failure in less than 10k but you still recommend this system. Huh well then!

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I haven't walked an inch in those shoes....but
I haven't seen anyone who went to a Sniper say they regret it. They are damned expensive so "worth it" depends

There is a bolt on tool called the Carb Cheater for about $350 that can give you the feedback you need to tune your carb. It's an interesting option for those of us who didn't grow up fiddling with carbs. About 2x the price of an O2 sensor alone with a phone interface you can watch in real time driving. Thunderhead289 on Youtube makes them

Or.. if you're going to rebuild anyway, you could send the Q-jet off to Cliff Ruggles or one of the other gurus while the motor is off. Once it's set up for your application, you're unlikely to need to touch it much.
It' also common to have a transplanted Qjet that doesn't have the right parts to match your motor, the things have many variations and they're application specific

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

we have installed sniper's on several customers vehicles where i work and as of yet never had any comebacks or complaints. they were easy to dial in and fire up with the touch of the key, idle great and give fast throttle response when you hit the skinny pedal. i'm considering installing one on my 69 suburban when/if i ever get around to finishing it. just my 2 cents worth.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Thank you for the feedback much appreciated.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I have a Sniper on a 69 Camaro and seems to work great so far, very responsive.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Ill step up- I have one on my 68 camaro. 454 big block , iron 101 heads, flat tops 9.2:1 compression. Mild street motor. It was the best upgrade I ever did, I put a stealth kit on it with an in tank pump. I run it without timing control .Is it perfect? No. But it starts every time and runs fairly smooth. I have a buddy with over 20k on his car he daily drives in the summer with no issues. I wouldn't say this is efi in the same sense as a new car, it still has that " Carburetor" type of feel. Hard to explain without experiencing it.

I will note that a terminator kit makes it run like a new car and makes it very reliable at the sacrifice of the " ugliness" of the injectors in the intake manifold.

Any questions feel free to ask
Nick

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I don't have a Sniper but I have 2 Tuned-Ports myself and have done several TPI conversions for others. With todays fuels, carburetors are a losing battle. EFI allows for so many benefits while still keeping the original look and drivetrain. I have owned my '83 K20 for over 30 years. When I got it with 34K miles it got around 14 mpg city and 18 highway with the stock 4-bolt 350, Quadrajet, and 700R4 with 3.42 gears. I ran it that way until 2004 it had 150K miles and a cam lobe went down. Pulled it out and replaced it with a bone stock '91 Corvette 350 TPI engine (aluminum heads). Mileage went to 17 city and 20ish highway. It starts instantly regardless of weather conditions. The increase in power is noticeable. Originally if you were pulling a trailer uphill you had to get on the gas to not lose speed. Now you just barely give it a little more and it moves right along. The TBI 350s that GM did are not power houses but they are very reliable. So I say yes, go for it!

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Well it was a lot of work / time to install. Had to splice and lengthen some of the harnesses so it would not look like a snake pit. Needed a few extra fittings to route the fuel lines. Installing the O2 sensor was a battle in itself. Had to make a bracket to mount the fuel pump. Still need to add some isolators cause that pump is loud.

Could one person install the system on a Saturday, yes. It took me longer cause I wanted to make it a clean install. The install instructions are easy to follow and the start-up wizard walks you thru the initial set-up. Had my doubts, but it fired up right way. No pumping the gas, no half throttle while waiting for it to warm up to idle, basically none of the start-up fun from a carb set-up. Also no more leaky gaskets drying out from the desert heat.

I had my carb pretty well tuned or so I thought. This system woke my engine up. Was it worth it, hell yes. Could I have done a cheaper set-up to achieve the same results, sure. The only problem I have had is my O2 sensor crapped out on me after a year, which then lead to crappy performance. It was easy to change and now she runs like a beast.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Not thread jacking but it may help if you tip the o2 sensor at an angle, condensation kills these things fast. Especially if the water sits on the very tip

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Burnsy01, thanks. The picture does not show the best angle, but the O2 sensor is on the pipe section that is aligned with the manifold flange, which puts it at about a 45 degree angle. I think the failure was mainly related to the truck sitting for awhile.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I didn't use the Sniper, but I did go with FiTech System. The best decision I ever did. Mine was hard to start after sitting in the garage for a while. My tank was relocated to the rear. After installing this system no cold start problems. It was fairly simple to install.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

FWIW, Holley has some of their Sniper 2 stuff on sale now.

https://www.holley.com/products/sale/

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Make that an Edelbrock AVS2 instead. A much newer design with annular boosters.

I'll be anxiously awaiting more snide remarks from member 67 twins.:(

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

I never make snide remarks, only well thought out comments.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Just ran across this site. Looks like they have a few kits all 20% off this weekend. Never used them so can't say what their service is like. Might save you $300 or so.
https://www.topflightautomotive.com/

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Kootenay, you sound undecided in your first post (EFI vs carb). If it's just the frustration of tuning the carb, have you considered replacing your carb for a professionally rebuilt q-jet? Or perhaps sending yours out for a rebuild? Yes, it's true you can do it yourself, as others have posted, but I also understand not wanting to mess with them - but I think you'd come out $ ahead to pay someone to rebuild it - and set it up, so that there's nothing less to mess with other than bolting it on. Although I understand the draw to the newer technology and its obvious benefits (efficiency, self-learning, less tuning, etc), I still prefer an original q-jet on these old trucks - have had a few edelbrocks, but definitely prefer a q-jet. It's just my own personal preference, everyone's different.
Here are a few resources (if you decide to stay carbureted :))
https://cliffshighperformance.com/ (preferred. Cliff rebuilds baseplates, not certain if he still rebuilds carbs for folks, but he is the Rochester whisperer)
https://smicarburetor.com/ (EDIT: q-jet rebuild sales/service https://smicarburetor.com/service-mo...uadrajet-symc/)
https://nationalcarburetors.com/ (EDIT: and specific to 72 GM trucks: https://nationalcarburetors.com/chev...arburetor_1972)

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Cliff doesn't personally rebuild carbs anymore, I understand that he is retired. I bought a kit from him many years ago and it worked fine. It's up for rebuild again, and that's the way I'd go. The only real adjustments a carb needs is from winter to summer and back. My take is that vehicles sitting long enough for the fuel to evaporate out of the float bowl have problems. I know mine does. But if I start it even every other day, all I have to do is pump the pedal once and turn the key until it starts, and that may be as short as turn and release. As usual, one's mileage may vary.

FWIW, given the number of miles I drive my truck per year (~1000), I don't think that I'd ever recover the installation cost, even if I provided the labor for free.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

As others have already said, the main benefit of the Sniper I installed on my truck has been easy starting all year. Probably not worth the expense and effort just for that. Here a few other built-in Sniper features I like:

1) Idle RPM stays steady when the A/C kicks on

2) A/C shuts off at WOT

3) Temperature based dual electric fan control

4) Optional ignition timing control

The Sniper 2 offers optional electronic automatic transmission control.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

How does the ignition timing control work? Does it require a special distributor with electronic gizmos in it, or does it control the timing by varying vacuum going to the can on the distributor? Some sort of knock sensor required?

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Holley sells a distributor called the Hyperspark that is designed to work with the Sniper. It is actually a very simple distributor with no vacuum advance or mechanical advance. It just has a sensor that detects the orientation of the rotor and sends its readings to the Sniper. The Sniper adjusts the timing as it sees fit by controlling the angle at which a spark pulse is sent through the ignition system. The rotor/cap can conduct spark pulses within a fairly wide angle range (the rotor doesn't have to be perfectly aligned with the cap contacts). There is no knock sensor.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Well said. Q-jets might just be the best carbs ever.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Definitely best overall street carb. For super high performance race applications, the Holley Dominator ranks highly.

Every single vintage hobby vehicle I own has a Q-Jet, and all perform well no matter the weather. You have to be good with setting them up, as well as timing and other adjustments to get great results.

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Also adding that if you have a MSD distributor you can convert it over fairly easy

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

Failed to mention in my previous post that swapping a 'lectric choke onto a q-jet can simplify things, particularly since you mention cold start problems

Re: To Sniper or not to Sniper...?
 

With the price of fuel up here at $1.60+ liter some sort of fuel injection makes sense. My '72 went from 13mpg to 19mpg when I LS swapped it. I thought about the sniper before I took the plunge. I saved the 350/350 in case I ever sell it. (unlikely)..