I Found the Magic Button!
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Ok, so I've been messing with my trucks alignment and have a thread going about how to improve the original specs. I haven't been driving it much but now that its warm out its time to dust it off. I added power steering, shocks all the way around and a 1 1/16" bar I had laying around. I thought now would be a good time to recheck the alignment and see if anything had changed.
In my Alignment thread I have advised that it is best to remove all the shims in the front end and equalize the sides to gain the most negative camber and positive caster you can get. Welp, this Saturday I took the truck up to work to do another alignment and discovered this little button that says "Match using cross spec". I never noticed it before. I clicked on it and it gave me the option of which side I'd like to adjust to match the other side. I couldn't de-shim an already unshimmed control arm so I had to "de-tune" the hotter side. So selecting the left side gave me the measurements required to match the left side to the right. One 1/8" shim was required in the front and two 1/8" (1/4" total) was all that was required to get the most out of the angles I could. I set the toe 1/16" per side and took it for a spin. It handles great! And it won't burn up tires. The stock specs are .8 to -.3 camber and 2.0 to 3.0 caster so the front end is still within factory spec but at the outer permissible ranges. -.3 camber is fine but I'd be happier with -.5. I will be performing the "Caster Mod" to dial in additional caster. My truck does have 3" springs on the front so I'm curious what effect different suspension combinations would have. My machine is a Hunter, I'm not sure if other brands have this same kind of feature. I hope you guys find this useful!!:chevy: |
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Thanks, Sure wish I had this for reference when I took mine's in for alignment. I had just rebuilt the front end and it took me two trips before the guy got it right. This should help.
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"Castor MOD"? Is that where you switch the upper control arms and move the lowers forward?
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Well I know where I'll get my next alignment.
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Good info. I didn't realize it got this technical.
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I'd have to say that after years of experience most techs aren't mathematical geniuses. I think those capable of doing alignments with the old technology they were provided just added and subtracted shims until the alignment was "good enough" and within spec. You were pretty much stuck with the end result. If they had removed all the shims and started from scratch looking at the numbers and realized what was actually happening alignments could have been better. Maybe after some time and experience aligning these trucks it'll make more sense as to why this happened. Sorry for the semi-sorta rant. I feel better now. |
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So, when we completely disassembled the chassis, I made sure to keep each of the shim packs and associated parts in separately labeled bags. From what you wrote, it would seem that maybe it could be put back together differently, regarding the shims.
After my truck was lowered (ECE) 2.5 up front and 4.0 in back, I took it to a good friend to align. It drove great and I am hesitant to reassemble it differently, yet I know that having it completely apart and reassembling it may mean that it won't be the same. I also feel that it would need to be put back on the alignment machine, but I'm just trying to get it close enough that it could be driven w/o destroying the tires in a short distance. |
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If you are rethinking your alignment now after seeing my thread dont fret. Don't take anything apart until you have it back at the shop. Have your Aligner pull all the shims and start from there. |
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Great thread! You'll get to align a bagged truck soon ;)
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I have to add this...Looking at the picture of my alignment with no shims if I could have landed at -.5° camber and 3.9° caster I might well call that good enough. Is it in spec? No, but the original specs in a word STINK! There isn't enough caster OR camber allowed. Sorry, I'm not that old, it may have had something to do with bias ply tires but I doubt it. Could it have been that a truck was made for work? I doubt that too. If I had +.5 camber dialed in and had the bed (or tongue) so loaded down that the nose was light then the camber would be even more positive making things worse. Not adding enough caster makes higher speed stability twitch and return-to-center dull and almost no exsistant. Dialing in better specs not only makes your truck handle better but it is also SAFER. Your truck will be more likely to do what you need it to do when you need to grab handfuls of steering wheel to get out of a jamb!
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http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=501241 BMERDOC - thanks for sharing all the info you are as to how to make these trucks handle with a better alignment. I'm currently updating my suspension from the stock 66 C10 to the 73-87 spindles, steering linkage along with power steering and it will be dropped somewhere around 1.5" - 2" with a stock spring cut 1 coil and 2.5" spindle. I'll also do the castor mod while it's apart, I'm shooting for about .75" forward. So, nowhere close to a stock C10 setup. Although I won't know what exactly to tell the guy who aligns it, I'll be able to refer back with the specs as to whether it's right, close enough, or needs more work. Thanks for the shared knowledge. |
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I wish I could find someone local who could do alignments on older stuff around here . I don't trust anyone as they are all $29.95 "haven't got a clue, was fired from Burger king last week master front end tech"
I need to replace the front upper control arm frame brackets soon and know finding an shop to aline it when I'm done is going to be the worst part of the job :m6: |
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Guess I'm lucky.
There's still a shop here in Fort Worth that does alignments on old vehicles. |
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toddtheodd
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BMERDOC - Glad to have found this thread!
My '69 C10 will be on the road by the spring and I might just come down and pay you a visit. |
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i took mine to firestone an they spent lil over 2hrs an still not right pulls lil to the right. an tried to get them to put more caster but they kept telling me it wasnt like that from factory. i have it dropped 4.5" an all cpp front end. told them this isnt factory. no luck |
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In your opinion,... what camber/caster/toe specs would be best for these trucks?
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Thank you.
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Great, just what I needed to hear :lol: Mine is at that point in the build where I'd like to get alignment done. It'd be cool if you could provide the specs and we could copy. Not sure about moving the lower control arm out though. Would they do that for alignments? I've got lots of shims in mine, so I'm guessing not so great.
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Thought I would add to the thread looking for advice. Had my truck aligned for the second time last week. All front end parts are new (bushings/rod ends/balljoints/pitman/idler/springs/etc) and it has a 2" spring drop front and rear.
Local Mr Tire has been good to deal with and thy actually listen, so I go there for tire changes, alignments, and AC work----basically just the stuff I can't do myself. Anyways, here is where mine wound up. Handles and drives decent, but steering return to center is still lazy. The shop had it for 2 days playing with it, and this is as far as they could get. |
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I guess the question would be how much do you really gain from doing that? Is it worth the work (and another $100 alignment) for the extra caster? |
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Yeah, the Caster Mod. Redrilling the lower cross shaft.
As far as the worth of the modification, I'd say its worth it. Even if you aren't into performance you are making the truck safer. If you get in a situation where you have to grab a handful of steering wheel and the truck doesn't respond to your input like you need it to you could be in a pickle real quick. Making the truck respond better and safer is worth it in my opinion. |
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I read the Castor thread. I get the point, but some of us installed 73-87 crossmembers and all suspension parts as well. Does anyone know or have an educated guess as to whethere redrilling locators will work for these LCAs?
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It will work. It put the lower arm forward causing more positive caster. Some people run into clearance issues and can't run 3/4" forward. I am completing other projects on my truck and will be doing the Mod soon. I can guarantee I'll post my results.
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So when I finally pull my springs out for replacement, I could just sort of clamp the LCA(no spring) 3/4" or so forward and look for clearance issues. With the knuckle still in place (on a support of some kind) I should be able to guesstamate how much forward I can go. Yes? No?
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Yeah. Pretty much. I plan to drill mine at 3/4" and 5/8" for experimental purposes. I think the 73-87 crowd is having clearance issues because of the bushings IIRC.
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I did the mod on my 73 front end and ran into the rear bushing a bit and just trimmed it to fit. If it fails I will replace and go 1/2" instead of 3/4". Should be ok though. Them buzzards are a beotch to replace. If I do it again I will weld in a piece of tubing cut in half to support both side from deflection during install of the bushing!
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Hey Nick, just sent you a PM for some professional advice! :metal:
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Got it and responded.:chevy:
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great info thanks getting ready to have mine done
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