Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Take a listen here:
https://youtube.com/shorts/sxIUvKSwWdM

This is a standard 350 crate engine. It's warmed up and idling at 850 RPMs. Timing is advanced to 34 at 2500 PRMs. There is wind noise into the camera when I go to the driver side, but you can get the gist of the engine sound from the first half of the video.

The engine sounds loud to me, not from the exhaust but from up front. Does this sound like it should, do you think?

Ryan

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

That irregular clicking noise sounds like leaking header gaskets.. How's the oil pressure. If the "clicks were more rhythmical , I'd think the valve lifters need adjusting..

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Leaking headers for sure (and maybe some metallic clinking of rockers?). Fixing the gaskets would be first.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Assuming you have oil pressure....

Sounds like lifter noise but #2 the ash color at header/head sounds like exhaust leak there.

Use a long piece of heater hose run along header flange listening to other end of hose. You will hear a leak if there is one

Might want to check/do a valve lash

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Thanks all, oil pressure is steady at 50. I do have new gaskets, will change those out first.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

A stethoscope would narrow down your noise.

Start with valve covers then oil pan and don't rule out the fuel pump.

Link to stethoscope: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52750-S...1699849&sr=8-3

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Sounds like my 350 before I had the valves adjusted

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

What oil are you using in it ? Sounds like valve noise to me . :chevy:

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Oil is 10W30 with about 50 miles on it, Valvoline brand I think. 50 psi of oil pressure.

I took one valve cover off and there is tons of lash on the #8 intake valve. I did not rotate the engine into any particular position.

I believe:
* This rod should never be loose regardless of position, and
* I can tighten this one down to zero lash, turn the engine over, tighten again if its loose, and ultimately add 1/2 - 3/4 turn to put it under load all without knowing the cam position or needing to put the engine in any particular position.

If that's true, I'll tighten it down per all the valve adjustment videos I've been watching.

The other rods on this side are all tight and tunable except #8 exhaust and #2 intake, both of which are tighter such that they cannot be turned.

Here is a video which also shows what oil I have on the rockers after taking the cover off.


Does all this sound right?

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

is your motor a flat tappet or full hydraulic cam motor?

If the former, are you using a high zinc content oil?

I assume you know how to lash/adjust valves. You need to be on the base circle of cam for the particular valve you are lashing.

assuming your valves were lashed correctly and one gets as lose as the one in video, the lifter could be collapsed

If you have a flat tappet cam motor and did not use high zinc content oil then you wiped a cam lobe(s)

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Judging by the rocker stud thread exposure which should be close to the same it looks like a flat lobe to me.....cut open the oil filter and check for metal.
If it is just out of adjustment it could be a loose rocker stud nut backing out.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Its a basic crate motor circa 2003, my understanding is it would be unlikely not to have hydraulic lifters in that year?

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Is this the same crate motor installed 20 years ago ? How many miles ?

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Yes it is, has about 550 miles on it.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

No


.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

How long have you run it before you took the first video ? whens the last time you've run it before ? up to operating temp ? :smoke:

Before I'd start tearing into it / adjusting anything I'd do an oil change and cut open the filter , check for metal , Your in Ga so using an oil like Castrol classic 20/50 Is my preference and a Wix filter . I would'nt run it until thats done .

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Before the first video it had run about a minute. Since that first video I've only moved it out of the garage and back in once, and have not started it in several days. The second video was from this afternoon and I did not run the engine at all today or in the few days prior.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

... and its gone on a lot of 20 minute errands in the days before the first video including highway speeds.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

The amount of lash was about 1/8", and must have been on the low part of the cam because the exhaust valve for cyl 8 was open.

I just rotated the engine one click, and the rod came up and opened the intake valve. I don't know if it opened it fully but I just mean it put the rod under a load. All the other rods are still tight. I rotated it a bit more and it closed that valve and the same rod is loose.

I will check the oil, I guess if I took off the intake I could get a good view of the lifter.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Using Allen wrenches as a poor man's feeler gauge, the amount of lash is 7/64", or about 0.11".

And I believe the rocker stud for this valve is a bit higher than the others. Its hard to photograph but when I put a straight edge across the top of the rockers, the gap between the straight edge and the top of the stud is definitely less on this rocker.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

From this info.

It sounds like the Press in stud has back-out.

Screw in studs are an Option.

Take your time and find the Exact issue.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Use the EOIC (Exhaust Opening, Intake Closing) to adjust the valves. When the exhaust valve begins opening, adjust the intake valve lash. (zero lash plus 1/2 turn of the nut) When the intake valve is closing, adjust the exhaust valve, same method. follow the EOIC method all the way through the firing order. I find this other 90 degree method easier a faster, Find TDC on your balancer, using the TDC line or timing mark on the balancer as 12 oclock, rotate the motor 90 degrees and mark the balancer, rotate another 1/4 turn (90 degrees) and make another mark. Rotate another 1/4 turn and mark the balancer for four equal spaced marks representing 90 degrees of the crank. At TDC you can adjust both valves on #1 cylinder. Rotate another 1/4 turn and adjust both cylinder 8 valves. Another 1/4 turn and adjust both #4 valves, you'll rotate the crank twice to complete the firing order. Dont use the spin method on the push rods, your looking for the point where the rod no longer moves up and down, thats zero lash. Add 1/2 turn and your golden! The valves/lifters must be on the base circle of the cam to adjust them correctly. When the intake closes at TDC both the intake and the exhaust valves are closed and on the base circle for the power stroke. Then the exhaust valve will open and by then you have rotated the crank 1/4 turn and should be on the next set of valves in the firing order. 18436572 Most new balancers have the 90 degree lines already on them, the older balancers need to be marked...Hope this makes sense to you...;) PS. I heard rockers clicking in the video, the second video showed a loose lash that was likely missed during the initial valve setting. Look for flec in the oil and check the tops of the studs with the straight edge, a high stud is a problem...

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

This is my favorite method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EGlb_VpTAw

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

I took 2 rockers off today to get exact measurements.

The problem valve's rocker stud is indeed pulled out 1/8" which is the same amount as the excess lash.

I know I could remove the head, remove the stud, and tap for a screw in stud.

Or I could just put it back together and see if it gets worse.

Or I could carefully hammer the stud back down and then put it back together and monitor.

I don't really want to take the head out and am not going to risk tapping it myself, am I taking a big risk if I take my chances? I also thought about drilling a pin through it to hold the stud in place after I hammer it back down.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Do not hammer the stud back down, that will not work. And don't take the head off. Do you have any metal-working experience? I've done this many times, but I've been working with metal and machinery for decades. Hopefully there is someone close to you that posts here and can do this simple repair.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

It is going to pull out again if you tap it down.
Probably instantly because of the extra wear of tapping it down.

If you do not Remove the head there will be metal shavings involved.
Which will not end with good results.

If you try to do a roll pin thing.
Which will be a Temporary fix.????

Also, If you drill and tap these need to be drilled at the Proper angle.
For screw in studs.
The geometry is what keeps these from wearing out before their time.

With my opinion stated.;)

Would you feel comfortable driving it down the road like this?
If it was Patched up.

If it were mine .

Screw in studs in your current heads done by a Good machine shop .
Or buy a new set of Heads.

JMHO
Hope this helps.
I have had a set of heads that had this issue.

They were replaced.;)

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

You dont have to pull the head. You have two options, drill and pin the stud, or pull the stud(s) and tap the hole(s) with a 7/16"-14 tap. I would pull the stud, then tap the hole, apply red Loctite to the stud and torque it to 35-40 ft lbs. You can buy a tool and a set of 3/8" studs here, https://www.speedwaymotors.com/SBC-H...ds,379470.html I recommend buying this kit because if one or two pulled you can bet your hat more will follow. It's $40 bucks well spent, you will have to buy a 7/16-14 tap. The holes are already .375" diameter so drilling for the tap is not necessary! Place an oil soaked shop towel around the hole to catch any cuttings, a shop vac is handy too. You can grease the tap to catch most of the cuttings. The tool is used to pull the stud, and then to align the tap keeping it square to the hole. By placing the tool over the neighboring stud, it will keep the tap centered as well. EZPZ...Dont forget the red Loctite...;)

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Thanks Iron, that matches my own research and I think I'm comfortable attempting it since I don't have to bore a larger hole - its just tapping an existing hole.

My one question is, at the bottom of the hole is it open, meaning metal shavings will fall through, or is it closed? I've read its both, I think that depends on what heads you have. I have basic iron heads.

Knowing that jig exists is a big help, I have a fighting chance of not screwing it up.

Ryan

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

You will see if its a blind hole when you pull the stud. The tap looks to be a "bottoming tap" which would be the kind you use on a blind hole.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Despite all the awesome advice you’ve gotten, I’d leave the stud alone. Put it back togethor and see if it runs quietly. If it does then look into fixing the stud. If not then you’ll need to dig deeper.
Could be a bad lifter or the dreaded flat lobe.

Also your video shows a distinct lack of oil on the rockers. Should be little pools of oil around each rocker ball.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Some holes do indeed penetrate the water jacket, no worries because if some cuttings do fall into the water jacket they will likely rust away or find a home at the bottom of the block or radiator. If you coat the tap with wheel grease and take your time cleaning the tap and regreasing it two or three times before reaching the final depth, there will be little or no cuttings falling into the water jacket. When you pull your first stud you'll be able measure the depth of the hole. Measuring the length of the screw in studs from the bottom of the hex to the end of the 7/16-14 threaded end of the stud you'll be able to gauge your tap depth. The kit I posted does not contain a "bottom tap" or any tap at all, you'll have to purchase a tap or taps. (I'd get one of each, a bottom tap and a self centering starter tap if money allows) The aligning pin pictured with the kit is used to align the tool when working on heads with no stud in the adjacent holes. The tool should be centered with either an exiting stud or the pin. Use the big hole for aligning the tap. Use a grade 8 flat washer on the tool when your pulling the stud, nut wont mar the tool. I think that's it..."Walk in the park" ;)

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

I had that happen years ago on a 305. I used flat steel across the other rocker arms to pull the stud maybe 1'2" out, put a few light grroves into it with a hacksaw blade, smeared red loctite on it, then hammered it back down, then I dimpled the boss a couple times with a punch. Maybe a few hundred miles later I THOUGHT the same thing happened again and I would have to pull the head........NOPE, flat lobes on the cam which I believe started the whole thing in the first place. Stud was still in place though LOL!

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

Update: I successfully pulled out the press-in stud, tapped the hole, installed a new screw-in stud, and put everything back together, with valves adjusted.

I'm giving the Loctite time to fully cure before I run the engine.

More detail:

* The tool above helped with extracting the press-in stud but I needed to add several washers to pull it all the way out.

* Using the tool above, tapping threads into the hole was not difficult or risky. Without that tool it would have been tricky to do this with the head still in the engine because its hard to reach and at an angle. But the jig in the tool above made it impossible to get it misaligned.

* I used grease on the tap and Q-tips to remove all the shavings.

* I had to remove rockers from 3 adjacent valves to get the tap to screw in deep enough.

* I used these taps: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FXJWFZ6/

* And this tap wrench: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062BNOO/

* I did have to rotate the distributor to get the vacuum advance out of the way of the tap wrench, so I'll need to adjust the timing.

As always, thank you all for your help.

Re: Does this engine sound healthy?
 

GREAT! thx for the follow up!